[1931Chevy]

This week is not only the last one of the month. It's also the week that could determine if GM holds on to the top spot in monthly auto sales in the U.S.

Initial reports of October retail auto sales show Toyota out pacing GM[GM and Ford. If that trend holds for the full month, we could be looking at the day many in Detroit have feared for years.

Toyota's October surge is due to a number of factors, most notably the Japanese automakers ability to offer financing while GM dealers struggle in a tight credit market. I've had a few GM dealers tell me that Toyota pushing 0 % is not a huge deal. Which is interesting since far more have told me they are losing potential sales because they can't get financing for customers. How many of those people went across the street to Toyota is hard to tell.

But even if Toyota out sells GM for October, what does it mean? Yes, there are bragging rights, but beyond that is there a residual carry-over to Toyota being #1 in sales for one month? Yes and No.

Yes, in that Toyota's ascent to #1 would confirm the momentum the automaker has been building for years. And the auto business is very much about momentum. When a company is picking up business, the public notices and even the most stubborn people admit, "maybe I should at least look at those cars and trucks."


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[tom3]

Don't know that this would be sign of strength for Toyota as much as weakness in GM. Even Toyota's sales numbers are dropping in this market. But when it comes to survival Toyota is in a much better position than any US nameplate.

 

[GMusa]

For me.. this wouldnt mean anything. I would still buy a GM over Toyota anyday!

 

[Buickman]

it means Wagoner and Company are failures having surrendered their dominant position due to incompetence.

 

[poncho1982]

it means Wagoner and Company are failures having surrendered their dominant position due to incompetence.

Should they be drawn and quartered as well?

Sheesh man, lighten up. Your whole "Wagoners the devil" schtick is getting old.

 

[eurohazard]

I would buy a GM, or I would buy a Toyota.....it just depends one which car/truck or SUV I need at the time.

And it still doesn't mean anything to me if/when Toyota surpasses GM. Surviving is more important than being number one right now. I'm sure it will be a reflective day of sadness, yet.....it's been a long time coming, as it didn't happen overnight.

 

[Bokl]

Should they be drawn and quartered as well?

Sheesh man, lighten up. Your whole "Wagoners the devil" schtick is getting old.

What can he say about rick. Is there anything good that he did.
How about this
About to be world # 2 car maker
company is not worth a penny now.
Lost billions each year
fired thousands of employees
closed down plants
sold almost all gm assets
now company is broke and about to file for chapter 11 unless gov. gives them money.

Now find something good about Idiot rick and his company.

 

[supermoto]

In September GM sold 284k to Toyota's 144k. Why is it that GM selling vehicles to governments and corporate users shouldn't be counted? They are the consumer are they not?

I'm sure none of you that are willing to dismiss fleet sales will adjust Toyota's global numbers because of all the fleet sales they have in their home market.

It's just another way that some people want to look at positives for Toyota and negatives for GM, just like the biased media.

 

[Bokl]

In September GM sold 284k to Toyota's 144k. Why is it that GM selling vehicles to governments and corporate users shouldn't be counted? They are the consumer are they not?

I'm sure none of you that are willing to dismiss fleet sales will adjust Toyota's global numbers because of all the fleet sales they have in their home market.

It's just another way that some people want to look at positives for Toyota and negatives for GM, just like the biased media.

Well because gm has high fleet sales and you go to sell your cobalt. you will get pennies for it. and if somebody will trade in their civic they get thousands for it. and consumres see that and they do not buy gm vehicle. Then gm is forced to sell more vehicle to fleet at loss or very small profit. Every year gm turns away more and more retail sales with this crap.

 

[Rick_VT]

Should they be drawn and quartered as well?

Sheesh man, lighten up. Your whole "Wagoners the devil" schtick is getting old.

It all he has, he has no other reason to come on here other than to say the same things over and over, ive never seen him come on here and say something good about a GM car or truck that does well.

 

[Patate]

It all he has, he has no other reason to come on here other than to say the same things over and over, ive never seen him come on here and say something good about a GM car or truck that does well.

At first I would have agreed with you.. now it's the opposite. GM's management is at fault here, and the sooner people realize, the better it'll be.

Giving GM taxpayers money is worthless if those incompetant *******s stay leaders of the company. GM has a huge engineering departement, they got lots of hard-working assembly line workers, they have a huge sales network, but what good all of this is if the company don't have any direction. I don't blame Wagoneer more than any other incompetant before him, but this has to change.

Buickman is right.. end of story.

 

[Josenez11]

I don't think that it's a big deal right now. GM's priority should be surviving the next year or so rather than what Toyota has going on. I think that come mid 2010 GM will have things finally headed in the right direction.

 

[Klay]

At first I would have agreed with you.. now it's the opposite. GM's management is at fault here, and the sooner people realize, the better it'll be.

Giving GM taxpayers money is worthless if those incompetant *******s stay leaders of the company. GM has a huge engineering departement, they got lots of hard-working assembly line workers, they have a huge sales network, but what good all of this is if the company don't have any direction. I don't blame Wagoneer more than any other incompetant before him, but this has to change.

Buickman is right.. end of story.

So I honestly want to know, how anyone can make GM profitable right now or make them sell more vehicles than they have previously.

I've tried to get Buickman to give me some sort of logical reason but he never does. So tell me, what kind of change can we realistically expect right? Especially considering every other automaker is doing horribly.

 

[TriShield]

Should they be drawn and quartered as well?

Sheesh man, lighten up. Your whole "Wagoners the devil" schtick is getting old.

Mismanagement of a company this big with so many people's lives depending on it is borderline criminal.

And you bet Toyota becoming the best selling automaker as well as world's wealthiest means something.

 

[Buickman]

have spent most of my adult life promoting General Motors products. after achieving inordinate success at the dealership level both as a salesman and General Manager, I spent years developing Return to Greatness. it was a lengthy process which included traveling and interviewing literally hundreds of people in the know across our industry.

after the most sincere efforts at convincing GM management as to the merits of this plan, I was insulted and ignored. this in spite of numerous ackowledgements by shareholders, dealers, analysts, suppliers, employees and retirees as well as folks in the media and consulting fields.

the final blow was after having made a deal with LaNeve, the guy backed out and I realized that only one person had the authority to kill the deal and that was Wagoner. from that day on it became my life's mission to oust Red Ink Rick. the work goes on...

this forum is but a small part of the ongoing effort. it provides inspiration both from those who are slowly realizing the truth and from those in opposition who "fire me up". I receive hundreds of emails each week from all sorts of people, none more disturbing than the owners of businesses who are forced to close by the ineffective leadership and disastrous marketing done by GM.

I will not rest until the bum is thrown out.

 

[roteague]

it means Wagoner and Company are failures having surrendered their dominant position due to incompetence.

No, it means we have to endure more of your childish insults.

 

[96_impala_ss]

it means GM's time is numbered.

its not that much of a suprise i hate to say. but Detroit is on life support rite now. its more of a reality check than anything else

 

[Buickman]

if Wagoner hadn't weakened us so very badly, had our marketing been corrected, if Return to Greatness had been implemented, this economic crisis would be a minor setback. don't forget, GM made money through the Depression. shame on anyone who gives Red Ink Rick a pass. the guy needs to be held responsible as does the Board of Bystanders.

 

[tgagneguam]

I love when people suggest the loss of the title means nothing. Of course, it means something.

it means Wagoner and Company are failures having surrendered their dominant position due to incompetence.

Precisely. It's not about being able to go on T.V. and say you're number 1 [or not]; that's almost irrelevant. As Buickman points out, the loss of the crown means a company that used to set the pace in the industry, the company everyone-including companies outside of the U.S. auto industry-used to copy is falling apart. Its strategy is not working. If it were a foreign firm, I don't think I could care less. But because it's American, I absolutely care, and it absolutely has importance.

It all he has, he has no other reason to come on here other than to say the same things over and over, ive never seen him come on here and say something good about a GM car or truck that does well.

Yes, he has many times stated his support of GM and its products. You simply haven't paid attention. Buickman simply does not agree with Rick's management. People may disagree with his reasons, but they seem pretty reality-based.

To my knowledge, and it looks like Buickman has already detailed the reasons for his passion, his livelihood, like many on this site, is tied to the decisions that Wagoner makes. And Wagoner's made enough of those decisions incorrectly to draw rightfully the ire of many men and women in this country as a result. And that includes Buickman.

 

[supermoto]

Well because gm has high fleet sales and you go to sell your cobalt. you will get pennies for it. and if somebody will trade in their civic they get thousands for it. and consumres see that and they do not buy gm vehicle. Then gm is forced to sell more vehicle to fleet at loss or very small profit. Every year gm turns away more and more retail sales with this crap.

Toyota will not sell more vehicles in the US market unless someone puts a spin on the real sales.

Once again no one wants to dismiss fleet sales in Japan for Toyota when talking about global sales. Bias makes the point irrelevant.

Buickman has only proven to himself that his plan would have worked.