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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As you well know, Pontiac's image is being revamped, the days of the utilitarian vehicles and Chevy ports are finally coming to an end... With one exception, the oddball Vibe.

Now, as you probably know, the Vibe is a small, utilitarian vehicle good looks engineered by Toyota, so I thought...

Wouldn't the Vibe make more sense as a GMC vehicle? Most Pontiac dealers are also selling GMCs and Buicks, correct? So that gets rid of the dealer issue. Would it hurt GMC's image? No, it's a utility vehicle, and GMC (see: Acadia, Terrain) is no longer about only pumping out body-on-frame vehicles and rebadged Chevy pickups. Would it augment sales? Certainly, the reason the Vibe didn't become a Chevrolet was that Chevy already had a pretty large portfolio, but you'd be led to think that it would fare better as a Chevy, right? Well, it would fare just a nicely as a GMC, as both brand's images are ranking high (as opposed to Pontiac) in the eyes of the American public.

So, what do you think? I mean, GMC could certainly use a small and efficient utility vehicle.
 

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I think a small Delta-sized crossover would better suit GMC's entry level. The Vibe's got a strong sporty theme to it that's a bit out of GMC's conservative image.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Strong sporty theme? Yeah, but nobody falls for it. It's the known as a nice-looking family vehicle in Canada (where it actually sells in high numbers). I didn't suggest simply rebadging the thing. :p It now falls into the compact crossover category, along withthe Suzuki SX-4 or the Compass/Caliber. It's a marketing thing and it would suit GMC better, in my opinion.
 

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What makes the Vibe sporty? The base G5? I actually think that it should live out this generation as a Pontiac, and then when the reborn Pontiac is up and running, GM should ditch Toyota and build a Vibe-like vehicle on Delta II for Buick. I can see it now, a mini-Enclave. And in doing a vehicle like this, it allows Saturn and Chevy to have similar but not nearly identical vehicles.
 

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The Vibe, while offering lots of cargo space, is in no way a truck or suv, it does not fit in w/ GMC. What it is, is a small and fun to drive 5-door, it is not a sports car but it has a sporty image(in GT trim), and promotes a sporty lifestyle w/ its versatility. IMO it fits better than any other car in Pontiacs line-up besides the Solstice and G8.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It still falls into the Crossover/Utility category under the new marketing, that alone makes it fit for GMC to me. It doesn't matter if it's not nearly as capable as their other utes.

I mean, just looking at the ads on autos.msn or any other site, they're taking on the Chrysler triplets with it, wouldn't it make a ton more sense to have it be branded as a GMC if that's the case?

I just got to see one in person earlier today, it's a bit disappointing, the interior isn't exactly cohesive and the plastics were hard, but nicely textured to take away the cheap feel.
 

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Aprime, the Vibe probably could work as a GMC product. But its current sporty theme, which some of the lesser developed creatures here fail to realize, might make it a tad out of place in GMC's rather conservative lineup.

And considering that Pontiac is all but for certain a dead brand, we'll likely see the next-generation Vibe toned down a bit and offered as a GMC, just as the Torrent is being replaced by a GMC product. So just wait a few years and you'll probably see a GMC Vibe-like product!

And you're right, nobody buys the "sporty" theme. Nobody buys the idea that ANY Pontiac is sporty. Because Pontiacs aren't sporty. Pontiac's sporty image is pure marketing shtick, just like GMC's "Professional Grade" hogwash. I think GM realizes nobody is buying the Pontiac=sporty line of crap, and since it's all but impossible to create a new image for Pontiac, it's likely that GM will simply drop the brand within the next five years.

It's a shame, because while Pontiacs were never really sporty cars, they were quite often GM's best-looking products. GM had the chance to rebuild Pontiac's image twenty years ago, but continued to pander to domestic loyalists instead of paying attention to marketing trends. Pontiac had a very realistic chance of becoming a "bargain-Beemer" years ago, but GM failed to capitalize on the Pontiac=sporty idea before the public simply got tired of hearing the shtick and forgot about the brand altogether.

I've got a soft spot for Pontiac, but it's based on those beautiful 1960s-era Parisiennes, Tempests and long-hooded Grand Prix's that roamed the roads of my childhood. Pontiac hasn't made a single appealing product since that time. I'd love to see Pontiac reborn, not as some 70s disco-ball Smokey & The Bandit brand, but as affordable cars with sharp performance and BMW-like handling prowess, not spoilers, and vulgar nostrils in the hood.

But Pontiac is beyond damaged... it's toast.
 

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I love the new Vibe, but for where I live, the only option I would consider would be the Vibe AWD, and let's face it: 20/26 for a four cylinder is downright pathetic. You can get a small CUV that gets that or more. That, and you're stuck with a 4 speed automatic. The Matrix AWD is no better.

Still, I admire how good looking the Vibe GT is. Damn, that is one sexy vehicle.

Too bad the interiors of both cars look like crap.
 

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Aprime, the Vibe probably could work as a GMC product. But its current sporty theme, which some of the lesser developed creatures here fail to realize, might make it a tad out of place in GMC's rather conservative lineup.

And considering that Pontiac is all but for certain a dead brand, we'll likely see the next-generation Vibe toned down a bit and offered as a GMC, just as the Torrent is being replaced by a GMC product. So just wait a few years and you'll probably see a GMC Vibe-like product!

And you're right, nobody buys the "sporty" theme. Nobody buys the idea that ANY Pontiac is sporty. Because Pontiacs aren't sporty. Pontiac's sporty image is pure marketing shtick, just like GMC's "Professional Grade" hogwash. I think GM realizes nobody is buying the Pontiac=sporty line of crap, and since it's all but impossible to create a new image for Pontiac, it's likely that GM will simply drop the brand within the next five years.

It's a shame, because while Pontiacs were never really sporty cars, they were quite often GM's best-looking products. GM had the chance to rebuild Pontiac's image twenty years ago, but continued to pander to domestic loyalists instead of paying attention to marketing trends. Pontiac had a very realistic chance of becoming a "bargain-Beemer" years ago, but GM failed to capitalize on the Pontiac=sporty idea before the public simply got tired of hearing the shtick and forgot about the brand altogether.

I've got a soft spot for Pontiac, but it's based on those beautiful 1960s-era Parisiennes, Tempests and long-hooded Grand Prix's that roamed the roads of my childhood. Pontiac hasn't made a single appealing product since that time. I'd love to see Pontiac reborn, not as some 70s disco-ball Smokey & The Bandit brand, but as affordable cars with sharp performance and BMW-like handling prowess, not spoilers, and vulgar nostrils in the hood.

But Pontiac is beyond damaged... it's toast.


The is quite simply the biggest BS I have ever read! Pontiac has no appealing cars since 60's ---are you kidding!!

WTF are you smoking:confused:
 

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The is quite simply the biggest BS I have ever read! Pontiac has no appealing cars since 60's ---are you kidding!!

WTF are you smoking:confused:
That's just my opinion. I think all American cars hit the skids bad after about '72/'73. They went from clean styling to those huge-bumpered, landau-roofed nightmares. Styling went from Chanel and Armani to Helen Roper and John Travolta. Some GM cars after 72/73 didn't look bad, but were so dynamically awful that it made them unappealing.

And I'm still, after two years of being active on this forum, waiting for some sort of intelligent, reasonable evidence that Pontiac has at any point in its history had a lineup of sporty cars. Having a Fiero or Solstice on the showroom floor doesn't make it a sporty brand. Especially when the bulk of sales came from decidedly unsporty 6000s, Sunbirds, Sunfires, and Grand Prix's.
 

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I agree that its damaged, but don't see why GM isn't moving along with Pontiac. What are they working on now? The GMT-900's are done, Zeta is on its way, Epsilon II should be ready anytime, the big stuff is done. Lets get Alpha going. That platform alone can be home to the Solstice/Sky/G5 replacement/G6 replacement/Cadillac ATS or whatever they choose to call it/Saab 9-1. This platform inserts a tremendous amount of "excitement" (i guess) into each of these brands.
 

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I love the new Vibe, but for where I live, the only option I would consider would be the Vibe AWD, and let's face it: 20/26 for a four cylinder is downright pathetic. You can get a small CUV that gets that or more. That, and you're stuck with a 4 speed automatic. The Matrix AWD is no better.

Still, I admire how good looking the Vibe GT is. Damn, that is one sexy vehicle.

Too bad the interiors of both cars look like crap.

No offense, but last time i checked the websites(toyota and pontiac) they were 5-speed autos on the AWD and 2.4L.
 

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That's just my opinion. I think all American cars hit the skids bad after about '72/'73. They went from clean styling to those huge-bumpered, landau-roofed nightmares. Styling went from Chanel and Armani to Helen Roper and John Travolta. Some GM cars after 72/73 didn't look bad, but were so dynamically awful that it made them unappealing.

And I'm still, after two years of being active on this forum, waiting for some sort of intelligent, reasonable evidence that Pontiac has at any point in its history had a lineup of sporty cars. Having a Fiero or Solstice on the showroom floor doesn't make it a sporty brand. Especially when the bulk of sales came from decidedly unsporty 6000s, Sunbirds, Sunfires, and Grand Prix's.

You are correct--Pontiac has never had a complete line of sporty cars. Some were nothing more then decals and spoilers. However, I am not arguing the fact that Pontiac isn't a true sport brand. All I am saying is how can you state (even if it is your opinion) that Pontiac has nothing appealing since that timeframe??

Pontiac has long stood with 1 or 2 true sport/performance cars in the lineup for as long as I can remember and in my opinion it can never exist as a true performance division unless it becomes a niche brand.

In essence the f-bodies carried the whole performance image of the brand for over 30 years and that spilled over to the rest of the line even though most of the line just carried a sporty image and were not real high performance vehicles. With the demise of the f-body, I truly believe Pontiac started to lose its Identity.
 

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The Vibe does not belong in Pontiac's line-up. The Vibe is not really for GMC either. Yes, GM has obligations to have volume models for PBG dealers but why a repackaged Corolla?
 

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All I am saying is how can you state (even if it is your opinion) that Pontiac has nothing appealing since that timeframe??
Lemme break it down over the years...

Midsizers: The 73-77 LeMans looked good, especially once they got the quad headlights; the unsuccessful Grand Am variant was one of my favorite US cars ever made. It blended Europe and America in its approach. Grand Prix's of that era were tacky and ugly. The '78 redesign went well. Again, Pontiac's unique use within GM of "Endura" meant the LeMans was spared the ugly-bumper syndrome typical of that era. The Grand Am was revived, but failed again because Americans like ugly cars, so the G/A didn't appeal to them. The GP got even uglier, boxy and decidedly UNsporty. The LeMans gave way in '82 to the Bonneville, which looked horrible. What was with that "Formal" roofline? Why do you give your "sporty" division more old-fashioned styling than even Chevrolet (the Malibu still looked handsome at this point). I never found any Grand Prix except the 69/70 models to be attractive at all.

The 6000 took over A-body duty in 82. It was a nicely-styled car, but nothing sporty about it. The 6000 STE tried, but it was just a nice take on a family car, and nowhere near what GM was trying to make it to be: a viable alternative to European sport sedans. Not a bad car, but nothing about it to make buy one.

Fullsizers: GM had always had exponentially better-looking fullsize cars than the rest of Detroit. Styling evolved a bit to meet bumper requirements, but the '77 downsized models were atrociously ugly. And it managed to be much less sporty in feel than even Chevrolet. Thank God the 79 fuel crisis and recession killed this beast. Only Pontiac revived it because dealers screamed for a full-size car. So we get the Canadian Parisienne, which was so tarted up that I can't believe GM foisted this thing on the market. It got worse in '85 when they grafted on the old Bonneville rear to the Caprice front clip. An utter nightmare. Fender Skirts? Those things were vulgar and horrible in '56 and exponentially more so in '86. Cars like this are the very reason the Japanese had it so easy over here.

Compacts: H-bodySunbird? This entire series of products from GM was a joke. The first Monzas looked really nice, but the rest were a joke. GM tried to push it as an "economy" car, but you needed the 231-cube V6 just to get decent performance. And it had the interior room of a mailbox. The J-body was better, and the J2000/2000/2000 Sunbird/Sunbird (four names in four model years? wtf was that all about?) were nice-looking little cars. But it was no sportier than a Cavalier. At least Pontiac tried sporty by offering the Turbo 1.8 four, but it was a reliability nightmare. But put up against imports of the era, the Sunbird was still near the bottom of the pile. Its Sunfire replacement slid to blue-light-special status. Desirability factor=0.

Phoenix: No words needed.

Grand Prix: The Grand Prix was probably the best-executed of the out-of-date-the-day-they-were-released W-body program, but why on Earth did GM launch them only as coupes, when the market wanted four-door midsize cars? The Grand Prix looked nice, but of course before you knew it, the spoilers, cladding, added headlights and such arrived to ruin its clean looks. The 97 redesigned looked nice in profile, and was a serious attempt to build a sporty alternative to boring midsize sedans. DING DING DING. We have a winner! Pontiac actually makes a true sporty-themed product. Until you drove one...

Bonneville: 87 Bonneville? Not bad. Was sportier than the other big GM sedans. But desirable? Only if you hated European cars. Probably Pontiac's best sedan effort since the 60s. The 91 restyling was questionable, but strangely appealing. Like kitsch furniture. But it grew stale and the '00 restyled was absolutely atrocious. How could GM actually go backward in restyling their fullsizers? I could see some appeal in the earlier SSE and other sportier models though...

Fiero: looked great! If Ferris Bueller's sister was driving it. The clean styling gave way to mullet-headed ******* low-class vulgar add-ons, doodads, spoilers, and such. Probably the most egregiously ruined styling of any car in history. But being a low-slung two-seater doesn't make it sporty. The Fiero handled decently, but overall was about as sporty as the Chevy Citation it was based on. Fiero desirable? Only if the Toyota MR2 had never existed...

Grand Am: was never sporty. It was rental-lot fodder the day it was released. It galls me that Pontiac had the nerve to suggest the first-gen Grand Am would appeal to "Yuppies currently desiring the BMW 3 series". Yep. For real. They really thought that. That's where the current twin-kidney grille theme came from. If there were negative desirability points, the Grand Am would get it for no other reason that GM tried to call it a BMW alternative.

TransSport/Montana: desirable?

G6: looks like a sausage. There's not much sporty about. It's less desirable than an Aura.

G8: Okay, since the brand's inception, Pontiac gives us a truly desirable sport sedan. But those "Johnny Lightning" hood nostrils are a deal-killer in my book. I suspect it'll only appeal to fans of Pontiac and domestic brands in general. FINALLY after 30 years of decline, GM's getting the idea right. Only now the name's dead and nobody cares.

Solstice: gee it only took till 2006 for Pontiac to realize it was supposed to be making sporty cars...

so all that's left is the Firebird. This is appealing ONLY if you go for that sort of car, which I don't. With all due respect it's a tasteless, vulgar car almost invisible outside of working-class neighborhoods. The '70-'73 models were stunningly beautiful cars, and the Firebird was one of the few domestic cars to manage the bench-bumper era without scars. But by '77 it was a purely ******* mullet-mobile with T-tops, vulgar decals, and an image that didn't quite appeal to customers who might have been shopping for a traditional sports car. The Firebird isn't a sports car, it's an image car. Desirable? To some maybe, but not to the majority.
 

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The Vibe does not belong in Pontiac's line-up. The Vibe is not really for GMC either. Yes, GM has obligations to have volume models for PBG dealers but why a repackaged Corolla?
Probably obligations to NUMMI. At least Pontiac dealers aren't getting a twin-kidneyed Corolla...

Why GM even bother with NUMMI after all these years is a mystery.
 

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I love the new Vibe, but for where I live, the only option I would consider would be the Vibe AWD, and let's face it: 20/26 for a four cylinder is downright pathetic. You can get a small CUV that gets that or more. That, and you're stuck with a 4 speed automatic. The Matrix AWD is no better.

Still, I admire how good looking the Vibe GT is. Damn, that is one sexy vehicle.

Too bad the interiors of both cars look like crap.
Hmm true, the Outlook/Acadia gets similar mileage
 
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