GM Inside News Forum banner
1 - 20 of 32 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,113 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative Fuels

Handling The Fuel Sell

James Stanford
19 August 2008
www.goauto.com.au

General Motors R&D chief discusses the issues with alternative fuels.

General Motors research and development chief Larry Burns has urged stakeholders in alternative energy technologies to stop fighting among themselves.

Visiting Melbourne last week, Mr Burns stated GM’s view that there is no one solution to the looming fuel crisis and that various energy technology backers should recognise this.

“If this issue is as serious as it appears to be, then we can solve it,” Mr Burns said. “But we can’t solve it by being paralysed by all these different parochial views.”

He said the various backers were creating a distorted picture of the viability of various alternative technologies that was detrimental.

“What’s happening is that people who like natural gas over-promote natural gas and overly criticise all the other (alternative fuels),” he said.

“The people who like ethanol overly promote ethanol and overly criticise all the other ones. The next thing you know, you’ve got all these people digging their heels in, thinking there’s a single answer and that’s the only thing you should invest in. In fact, we must invest in all of them.”

Click here to continue article


GM vice-president of research & development and strategic planning Larry Burns
shares a joke with GM Holden chairman and managing director Mark Reuss
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,869 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen, Says GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns

Visiting Melbourne last week, Mr Burns stated GM’s view that there is no one solution to the looming fuel crisis and that various energy technology backers should recognise this...

...The next thing you know, you’ve got all these people digging their heels in, thinking there’s a single answer and that’s the only thing you should invest in. In fact, we must invest in all of them.”
Mr. Burns is one smart fellow. Many other quotes contained within the article readily demonstrate that. GM is lucky to have him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,689 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen, Says GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns

Mr. Burns is one smart fellow. Many other quotes contained within the article readily demonstrate that. GM is lucky to have him.
AMEN, BROTHER.


Everytime I read some self-annointed Blog expert spouting about the shortcomings of GM, I think of Larry Burns. The Volt is his brainchild.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
679 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

the idea is good, needs follow through. gm needs to be atleast 2 or three steps ahead of the game instead of always playing catch up being 5 steps back.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,337 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

Nuclear power plants produce vast amounts of intensely radioactive waste that will remain so for thousands of years....and a satisfactory means of storing/disposing of it has yet to be devised. So I oppose it until fusion is harnessed. In the meantime, check out today's issue of www.spacedaily.com and see the breakthrough in using sunlight to split water!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,639 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

Finally some intelligent thought on the Alt. energy movement. Way to go Burns!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,887 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

Here is something for people to think about.

I don't mind hydrogen as a fuel, but it will take time to build out infrastructure. But I also like the internal combustion engine; I like their sound and how they perform. So I say use hydrogen in ICE's.

But hydrogen has less bang for the buck, so to have the power of a 3.0 V6 in your car you would need to have a V8 of 5.0. Now before you think that is a bad thing, think again. This large V8 does not have to be heavy; in fact it can be much lighter than the 3.0 gasoline engine. Firstly, you scrap the weight of the catalytic converters.

And hydrogen burns weaker, which means the engine does not have to be as strong, so make the engine walls thinner, and there is less power going through the conrods and crank so they downsize too.

And the less energy released in a larger cylinder means less heat soak, which means you, can go to air-cooling. Remember that Porsche gave up air cooling because of emissions controls because an air cooled engine cylinder expanded and contracted more and let gases escape past the rings more, but a hydrogen engine has no bad emissions to keep track of.

And if some steam gets into the oil, like did in steam engines before, you have a small scrubber to separate the water out in the oil filter. So you dump the weight of the radiator and the water in it and in the engine.

Trouble is nobody is serious about doing these things. Only BMW is doing hydrogen ICE's, and they just use their current converted engines. Nobody has purpose designed a Hydrogen ICE to take advantage of these hydrogen benefits.


;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,682 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

Nuclear power plants produce vast amounts of intensely radioactive waste that will remain so for thousands of years....and a satisfactory means of storing/disposing of it has yet to be devised.


Bury it in a place that will be far away from human civilization for hundreds of thousands of years. In the mean time we may come up with an idea to neutralize spent fuel, but we'll definitely find an alternative that's just as efficient or plentiful. We need to use the best technology we have now to ensure we have a future to develop alternatives for. Replace coal, oil and natural gas power with nuclear, wind, geothermal, hydro and solar now until we can do fusion.

I applaud Mr. Buns' intelligence. We need more people like him making decisions in this country.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

I agree, we need more nuclear.

However, we also need more algae-oil! The potential for this bio-fuel is several orders of magnitude beyond corn based ethanol. But, you never hear the candidates talking about it.
 

·
Registered
2015 Cadillac XTS Platinum, 1989 Merkur XR4Ti, 1989 Merkur Scorpio
Joined
·
11,303 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

Give this guy a raise!
Burns works for GM so he must be a retard and a redneck.
He should work for a dollar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,245 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

Nuclear power plants produce vast amounts of intensely radioactive waste that will remain so for thousands of years....and a satisfactory means of storing/disposing of it has yet to be devised. So I oppose it until fusion is harnessed. In the meantime, check out today's issue of www.spacedaily.com and see the breakthrough in using sunlight to split water!
Your true colors
True colors
True colors
Shining through

- Cyndi Lauper
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,337 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

Your true colors
True colors
True colors
Shining through

- Cyndi Lauper
I don't get it....guess I am dense at times!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

To MonarroSS,

You really need to do some research on H2 powered ICE... cuz your statements are HORRIBLY WRONG. H2 burns FASTER, HOTTER and MORE POWERFULLY than gasoline. Look up the amount of energy contained in H2 vs. Gas BY WEIGHT. You'll find H2 has far more energy.

Your statements about it being less powerfull comes from the fact that most of the H2 fueled ICE that have been shown so far have PURPOSELY been "powered down". The basic problem is, the fuel system has to run at VERY high pressures (like 25,000 PSI) to force enough H2 into the cylinder to equal an equivalent amount (by weight) of gas or diesel. It's not that it can't be done, it has been, but none of the main manufacturers have shown any of those yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

Handling The Fuel Sell

James Stanford
19 August 2008
www.goauto.com.au

General Motors R&D chief discusses the issues with alternative fuels.

He said the various backers were creating a distorted picture of the viability of various alternative technologies that was detrimental.

“What’s happening is that people who like natural gas over-promote natural gas and overly criticise all the other (alternative fuels),” he said.

“The people who like ethanol overly promote ethanol and overly criticise all the other ones. The next thing you know, you’ve got all these people digging their heels in, thinking there’s a single answer and that’s the only thing you should invest in. In fact, we must invest in all of them.”

Click here to continue article


GM vice-president of research & development and strategic planning Larry Burns
shares a joke with GM Holden chairman and managing director Mark Reuss
The problem is that we have to prioritize what we work on. Some ideas make more sense and are more achievable in the short term than others. We should prioritize the solutions that are available near term and back burner those that will take decades to develop infrastructure to realize. I'm not suggesting that we stop any research - but spending billions on solutions that are not marketable for decades does not make sense when we have solutions that could free us of our oil dependency (at least the 22% that we purchase from the most objectionable sources). The gentleman from Google who testified in front of the congressional committee on energy really gets it - he also suggested that we need to prioritize the near term solutions.

What say you Larry Burns? How would you prioritize potential solutions including FlexFuel, BioFuels, Plug-in Electrics, Hydrogen Fuel Cell, Natural Gas etc.?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

a few years ago they were interested in hydrogen gas with zero emissions, saw some video's they had, one of a lawn mower and another of a fork lift, wonder what happen with that project
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

a few years ago they were interested in hydrogen gas with zero emissions, saw some video's they had, one of a lawn mower and another of a fork lift, wonder what happen with that project
The problem is that it takes far more energy to make hydrogen than it would take to simply charge a battery and use it for locomotion. Hydrogen looks more and more like a scam to keep this country buying oil for at least another decade every day. The infrastructure to make hydrogen work as a viable alternative would cost billions and take ten or more years to roll out.

Of course, if your goal is to "always" be ten years away from the solution - while at the same time you can "claim" to me working to solve the problem (at government expense) then I guess the hydrogen "story" has served its purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,682 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

The problem is that it takes far more energy to make hydrogen than it would take to simply charge a battery and use it for locomotion. Hydrogen looks more and more like a scam to keep this country buying oil for at least another decade every day. The infrastructure to make hydrogen work as a viable alternative would cost billions and take ten or more years to roll out.
The problem is that batteries take lots of rare metals to construct and lose their capacity over time while also taking hours to safely recharge. We're spending trillions on bailing out everything tied to finance in the world, why not spend a few billion on hydrogen infrastructure while creating thousands of jobs? Use clean (solar, hydro/wave, nuclear) power to take hydrogen from abundant sea water to make hydrogen so we can pump it into our cars like gasoline and hit the road again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13,337 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

The problem is that batteries take lots of rare metals to construct and lose their capacity over time while also taking hours to safely recharge. We're spending trillions on bailing out everything tied to finance in the world, why not spend a few billion on hydrogen infrastructure while creating thousands of jobs? Use clean (solar, hydro/wave, nuclear) power to take hydrogen from abundant sea water to make hydrogen so we can pump it into our cars like gasoline and hit the road again.
Well said! Some of the breakthroughs in sun-powered biological splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen are very exciting. When I was a pottery major we had to wear gloves and a mask when handling any lithium compounds we used for glazes....a VERY toxic metal. So as an environmentalist I do wonder about these new lithium batteries in crashes or their disposal. Direct use of green-generated hydrogen would bypass many/most of the battery problems.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Re: I Want Nuclear-Generated Hydrogen: GM's R&D Chief Larry Burns Talks Alternative F

The problem is that batteries take lots of rare metals to construct and lose their capacity over time while also taking hours to safely recharge. We're spending trillions on bailing out everything tied to finance in the world, why not spend a few billion on hydrogen infrastructure while creating thousands of jobs? Use clean (solar, hydro/wave, nuclear) power to take hydrogen from abundant sea water to make hydrogen so we can pump it into our cars like gasoline and hit the road again.
Today's batteries will last at least ten to fifteen years. During which time they will consume about one half the energy it would take to use hydrogen to travel the same distance in the same electric vehicle. Even a relatively rare material that can be re-used over 10-15 years will not be an issue as new power storage solutions are being developed including capacitive systems that do not "wear out" and can be recharged in minutes. Besides, for 78% of the country, recharging overnight is not an issue since they drive less than 40 miles per day. When more than 40 miles are needed - simply burn a little E85 or plain old gasoline in a serial hybrid such as the Volt.

Plug-in electric vehicles, using today’s Li Ion battery technologies and today's electrical grid, can be used NOW without waiting ten years to build a completely new hydrogen infrastructure that will cost Billions to deploy. Virtually every home in America has the needed infrastructure to recharge a plug-in electric vehicle TODAY. Again, today, not ten years from now - and without a single dime needed to implement it. The DOT estimates that 85% of the existing cars and light trucks in the country could be recharged during off peak times WITHOUT adding a single wire or power plant to the EXISTING electrical grid. A grid that we are already highly committed to and that is leveraged throughout the country, not just for cars, but for hundreds of uses.

We can continue to look into “sun-powered biological splitting of water into hydrogen and oxygen” but the reality is that it does not exist today in any “real or useful” way. I also continue to point out that the simple physics of ripping a hydrogen atom from water does not make sense from a purely physics/energy stand point – no matter what the energy source (since the same energy source could be used to simply charge a battery). This is why most “real” attempts to make hydrogen start with hydrocarbon sources such as natural gas or oil and use a fuel processor or reformer. Does anyone else see an issue with using oil or natural gas to make hydrogen for a 50% efficient fuel cell?

The ability to recharge plug-in electric vehicles, using one half (or less) of the energy needed to drive the exact same mile on hydrogen exists TODAY. Tesla, Mini, Aptera and others have vehicles available now and the Chevy Volt and Honda Insight as well as Toyota's plug-in electric vehicles will be in production in about 12 months. Lets stop “pretending” that hydrogen is viable in the short term and get behind a real solution that can free us from our dependency on foreign oil this decade rather than "some time" in future decades.

We need to prioritize the solutions that can work well in the near term while we continue to work on the less promising technologies in the lab.
 
1 - 20 of 32 Posts
Top