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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
US regulators have announced that Hyundai and Kia have agreed to a record $100m (£63m) settlement for overstating the fuel economy of their cars.

The South Korean carmakers were accused of overstating the fuel efficiency of 1.2 million vehicles.

The penalty is the largest ever paid for violation of the Clean Air Act, according to regulators.

"We are pleased to put this behind us," said Hyundai US chief David Zuchowski, in a statement.

In November 2012, the two carmakers admitted to having overstated the fuel economy of their cars by up to six miles per gallon.

This, in turn, meant that the companies underreported the cars' greenhouse gas emissions to the US Environmental Protection Agency by around 4.75 million metric tons.

As a result, Hyundai and Kai will also be forced to forfeit emissions credits for the difference between the original and the overstated data - worth approximately $200m.

"This unprecedented resolution with Hyundai and Kia underscores the Justice Department's firm commitment to safeguarding American consumers, ensuring fairness in every marketplace, protecting the environment, and relentlessly pursuing companies that make misrepresentations and violate the law," said US Attorney General Eric Holder in a statement announcing the settlement.

Shares in both Kia and Hyundai declined nearly 6% in trading after markets had closed.

The allegations concern the Hyundai Accent, Elantra, Veloster and Santa Fe vehicles and the Kia Rio and Soul models.
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This is exactly why the EPA should do their own testing and not leave it up to corporations to simply use the guidelines with little oversight.

I'm not upset about the greenhouse gas emissions so much as I am about Hyundai/Kia intentionally defrauding consumers. Fuel economy is a huge factor for many Americans who are purchasing vehicles, especially those buying in the segments of the affected models.

Now, Hyundai/Kia have come a long way in a relatively short time. They build some competitive machines for the marketplace, with quite a few models being rated near the top of their respective segments. For that they deserve much of the success they've found. But there's no place (or need) for lying to consumers. They deserved to be fined harshly. The statement here is about the only good thing that I can think of that Eric Holder has done properly since being appointed to his position...

Makes me wonder if Ford will be fined for their C-Max Hybrid debacle...
 

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Did anyone ever establish whether Hyundai/Kia's errors were malicious or incompetent ?
I don't believe it has been proven either way. I honestly would hope that it was due to incompetence. However, I have a very difficult time believing that their internal numbers were off by so much without intent... Corporations employ too many number crunchers for this to have been an accident. They are fined $100million up front, and $200million in tax credits, which is a lot of scratch. But they also generated $Billions in revenue on the sale of those cars, which are otherwise quality products that should generate a fair number of repeat customers, so who's to say it wasn't a good risk to take?

But that's just me. I don't trust many people or entities in the corporate world. Too many out there just trying to make every cent they can, by any means they deem necessary. I would absolutely say the same thing if it was GM or Apple or Hershey's Chocolate who were fudging the numbers a bit for their own gain at the expense of the buying public... :)
 

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I don't believe it has been proven either way. I honestly would hope that it was due to incompetence. However, I have a very difficult time believing that their internal numbers were off by so much without intent... Corporations employ too many number crunchers for this to have been an accident. They are fined $100million up front, and $200million in tax credits, which is a lot of scratch. But they also generated $Billions in revenue on the sale of those cars, which are otherwise quality products that should generate a fair number of repeat customers, so who's to say it wasn't a good risk to take?

But that's just me. I don't trust many people or entities in the corporate world. Too many out there just trying to make every cent they can, by any means they deem necessary. I would absolutely say the same thing if it was GM or Apple or Hershey's Chocolate who were fudging the numbers a bit for their own gain at the expense of the buying public... :)
They should have been hit with a punitive 1 Billion fine.
 

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This is exactly why the EPA should do their own testing and not leave it up to corporations to simply use the guidelines with little oversight.

I have a feeling they knew nobody as looking, just make them up......

This company is one I would never buy a product from. They seem to have serious ethical problems.
Do you speed? Do you drive faster when you know cops aren't patrolling? Does that make you unethical, a law breaker or a Saint?

As if H/K is alone in this "fudge making" Equinox is GM's poster child for missing the window sticker, no?



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This company is one I would never buy a product from. They seem to have serious ethical problems.
And yet purchasing a product from General Motors is ok with you?
 
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I don't believe it has been proven either way. I honestly would hope that it was due to incompetence. However, I have a very difficult time believing that their internal numbers were off by so much without intent... Corporations employ too many number crunchers for this to have been an accident. They are fined $100million up front, and $200million in tax credits, which is a lot of scratch. But they also generated $Billions in revenue on the sale of those cars, which are otherwise quality products that should generate a fair number of repeat customers, so who's to say it wasn't a good risk to take?

But that's just me. I don't trust many people or entities in the corporate world. Too many out there just trying to make every cent they can, by any means they deem necessary. I would absolutely say the same thing if it was GM or Apple or Hershey's Chocolate who were fudging the numbers a bit for their own gain at the expense of the buying public... :)
I'm thinking the same, sure $300MM is a lot, but did they make more in profits? If so, then they took a risk and won. I don't see much consumer backlash, anyone I talk to about this has never heard of the problem.
 

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And yet purchasing a product from General Motors is ok with you?
There is no evidence that General Motors is corrupt from the top down, its different from Hyundai in the fact that their chairman has been convicted of multimple crimes and I beleive he is still in charge.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/06/business/06hyundai.html
There have also been multiple allegations against him that seem to hold some truth, making me wonder how he can supervise a company ethically.

Do you speed? Do you drive faster when you know cops aren't patrolling? Does that make you unethical, a law breaker or a Saint?

As if H/K is alone in this "fudge making" Equinox is GM's poster child for missing the window sticker, no?



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I am not Saint Mchicha. you will need to look elsewhere.
 

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What do you exect from a bunch of crazy kamikazis who pulled off a sneak attak on Pearl Baily Harbor??!

I would NEVER trust these evill people and I will NEVER buy any of their cheap japanese junk!! :drive:

I will always buy General Motors. A corporation run by the most elite of the ethical Gods on the planet, not to mention they took a hugely successful outfit and ran it into the ground and perhaps below through sheer arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, and high ethical standards!!!!:fall:
 

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What do you exect from a bunch of crazy kamikazis who pulled off a sneak attak on Pearl Baily Harbor??!

I would NEVER trust these evill people and I will NEVER buy any of their cheap japanese junk!! :drive:

I will always buy General Motors. A corporation run by the most elite of the ethical Gods on the planet, not to mention they took a hugely successful outfit and ran it into the ground and perhaps below through sheer arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, and high ethical standards!!!!:fall:
you need to look around you, you are surrounded by hamster plastics.. on the freeway..
 

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But that's just me. I don't trust many people or entities in the corporate world. Too many out there just trying to make every cent they can, by any means they deem necessary. I would absolutely say the same thing if it was GM or Apple or Hershey's Chocolate who were fudging the numbers a bit for their own gain at the expense of the buying public... :)
But no doubt you trust the government implicitly, despite the fact it is a monopoly and bigger than any corporate?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What do you exect from a bunch of crazy kamikazis who pulled off a sneak attak on Pearl Baily Harbor??!

I would NEVER trust these evill people and I will NEVER buy any of their cheap japanese junk!! :drive:

I will always buy General Motors. A corporation run by the most elite of the ethical Gods on the planet, not to mention they took a hugely successful outfit and ran it into the ground and perhaps below through sheer arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, and high ethical standards!!!!:fall:
I have a friend who is originally from the Philippines who told me a war story that happened in the local village few up in after the war, he told me about the Koreans soldiers that invaded villages kids were used as a ball thrown into the air, the Korean soldiers laughingly tossed in the air them to see if they catch them with their bayonets, the men were beheaded, women gang raped then killed, the only survivors were pretty young women that were send to Korean & Japanese whore houses for the soldiers. Then there was the rape of Nanking.

Apparently both the Japanese and Korean children have never ever been given history lessons on this or the rape of Nanking ever on what happened, so to them it never happened, they would probably think you were telling lies, to them its a blanc sheet of history thats left out of a history lessons in Korea & Japan apparently it never officially happened or ever took place.

Yes sure l have forgiven Koreans and the Japanese for what happened in the Philippines, Pearl and the rape of Nanking, l don't ever hold a grudge a big 100% no, would l ever buy crap dull anodyne Kia or Hyundai junk - not ever not in the next trillion years, l would rather walk, cycle, or catch a bus than drive a junk Kia/Hyundai.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
They should have been hit with a punitive 1 Billion fine.
You are to soft, should have been $2 billions to claw back the huge money free-loaders Kia & Hyundai stole in C4C, they stole most from the "cash for clunkers" program globally. C4C program should have been limited to GM, Ford & Mopar in the US at the time.
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I have a friend who is originally from the Philippines who told me a war story that happened in the local village few up in after the war, he told me about the Koreans soldiers that invaded villages kids were used as a ball thrown into the air, the Korean soldiers laughingly tossed in the air them to see if they catch them with their bayonets, the men were beheaded, women gang raped then killed, the only survivors were pretty young women that were send to Korean & Japanese whore houses for the soldiers. Then there was the rape of Nanking.
WTF?

Have you ever opened a history book? Korean's involved at the Rape of Nanking? Korean's invading the Philippines?

Wow.
 
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I'm thinking the same, sure $300MM is a lot, but did they make more in profits? If so, then they took a risk and won. I don't see much consumer backlash, anyone I talk to about this has never heard of the problem.
You know, the lack of major media attention is interesting. At the time there were some stories on it but it seemed that nobody really cared about it. Seems that it would be a totally different story if an American company did that, people would be much more receptive to remembering that.

This is similar to the horsepower ratings in with toyota gamed that system big time. Nobody seemed to care that there was a 20 to 30 hp decline on their Camry from what it had been rated sold at.
 

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You are to soft, should have been $2 billions to claw back the huge money free-loaders Kia & Hyundai stole in C4C, they stole most from the "cash for clunkers" program globally. C4C program should have been limited to GM, Ford & Mopar in the US at the time.
LINK
It would be the government's fault for running the scheme that way - and then the customers for choosing those cars - same thing happened in the UK.

Do you want totalitarianism or free market economy? Saying you want free market economy but imposing restrictions isn't a real way forward.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
WTF?

Have you ever opened a history book? Korean's involved at the Rape of Nanking? Korean's invading the Philippines?

Wow.
You are taking it out of context l included both was generalising both the Japanese and Koreans in the post.

You go to Japan ask anybody that about what happened in rape of Nanking they won't know what you are talking about.

Go to Korea and ask any Korean went on in the Philippines during the war you find anybody will be aware that Koreans were throwing young children up in the air and bayoneting them for fun, raping women and beheading of the men my friends descendants from the village he grew up in.

Common denominator on both subjects they don't exist never happened, you won't find Rape of Nanking or the barbaric atrocities that happened in my friends village in the Philippines. Japanese & Koreans don't teach these subjects in their history classes, nobody in Japan or Korea never knew they ever happened!!

BBC
What Japanese history lessons leave out.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21226068

Me l have forgiven both 100% like both l have a Japanese friend as well, just don't like how nobody in Japan and Korea knows what went on, their history books are full of blank pages written out to the extent nobody knows about it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It would be the government's fault for running the scheme that way - and then the customers for choosing those cars - same thing happened in the UK.

Do you want totalitarianism or free market economy? Saying you want free market economy but imposing restrictions isn't a real way forward.
FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF

WASHINGTON -- Sen. Debbie Stabenow asked President Barack Obama on Friday to press officials from Japan and South Korea over restrictions on American cars in those countries' versions of a cash-for-clunkers stimulus.

In a letter to the White House, Stabenow, D-Mich., said Japan and South Korea were essentially excluding American vehicles from clunkers programs through a variety of restrictions.

She said that many backers of the U.S. clunkers program would have preferred to limit it to U.S.-built vehicles, but believed it would violate international trade law to do so.

"That is why it is so outrageous that Japan and Korea would have the audacity to implement similar programs that discriminate against American automakers," Stabenow said in the letter.

The original version of the cash-for-clunkers program proposed earlier this year would have applied only to U.S.-made vehicles, but that proposal faced stiff opposition from foreign automakers and dealers, along with some wariness from American automakers that rely on Canada and Mexico for large portions of their production.
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Would like more Free open markets as well Rupert, US made cars never made a dime out of the Korean & Japanese C4C sad to say Rupert..
 
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