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Silly argument to say (paraphrasing) "since we sell high-performance V8s that make $$$, and we also make a few hybrid vehicles.....so V8's are good for environment".

That's like selling crack to fund the local police department.....and using that fact to support crack sales.

Of course, a good V8 is like crack. And I for one am glad to see V8's continuing in America.
 

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I think with all the fuel price hysteria going on, too many people forget that, unlike past fuel panics, a substantial chunk of America is comprised of well-heeled, affluent customers who aren't affected by pricey fuel. Granted it may come to a point where driving a too-excessive vehicle can carry a negative social stigma, but V8s and powerful engines aren't exclusive to big cars. The Corolla-sized BMW M3 is hardly a fuel-sipper!

This is why I think GM insane for cancelling the Ultra project. If GM is serious about taking Cadillac truly upmarket, it'll need a serious, highly-sophisticated V8 to remain competitive. The Northstar's a fine unit, but it's dated and has reached its limitations. Dropping a 6.2 truck unit in a flagship sedan would solidify Cadillac's image as nothing more than a tarted-up dumpstermobile. The brand is supposed to be aimed at wealthy buyers, who demand the best of everything they own, not at NASCAR fans.

I look around my 19th-century New Orleans neighborhood, populated primarily by well-heeled successful professionals, and I haven't seen much downsizing in the car arena. The Denalis are still there. The Lexii are still there. The Benz R-classes (a particular favorite here) are still there.

People who spend $35,000 for living room curtains simply aren't fazed by $4 gas. And unless GM just wants to hand this demographic over to the imports on a silver platter, it'll need a big, sophisticated V8 model to cater to them. Anything else simply won't suffice.

Unless the economy tanks so bad that my neighbors end up on skid row, V8s aren't going anywhere.
 

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I agree with you somewhat, t-rex. I don't believe there are as many affluent customers as you say there are however. Granted, there is a large market that Cadillac has not touched and will continue to abandon with their current lineup.

As for Pontiac and the other divisions, I simply do not agree with V-8 powered demand. The average Joe in America is living paycheck to paycheck, Visa payment to the next. They do not know how to save and feel little need to in case of emergencies. With any shift in their budget comes the screaming and crying mainly because they are overextended and cannot afford any extra costs.

Gas does not affect me too bad because I have prepared my family for unexpected expenses. We have a savings account and have more than $5 in it. I don't buy homes or vehicles I really can't afford, and I don't spend money on things that I can't afford either. We have 1 credit card in case of emergencies, but that is rarely used. For everyday expenses- we use cash!

I think the fuel crunch has hurt alot of everyday folks. Sales of smaller, more fuel efficient vehicles proves the shift towards fuel economy as a very important point in car purchases today.
 

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I agree with you somewhat, t-rex. I don't believe there are as many affluent customers as you say there are however.
Well I tried to base that seat-of-the-pants assessment not solely on the Yuppie Bubble I live in, but by the rise of premium car sales over the past 15 or so years. I'm sure some of those buyers were overextending, but I think there's a big enough luxury market to justify GM having a big V8 Buick and Caddy in the mix!


likearock00 said:
As for Pontiac and the other divisions, I simply do not agree with V-8 powered demand. The average Joe in America is living paycheck to paycheck, Visa payment to the next. They do not know how to save and feel little need to in case of emergencies. With any shift in their budget comes the screaming and crying mainly because they are overextended and cannot afford any extra costs.
This is why I've argued ad nauseum since I've been on GMI that Pontiac should not now, nor ever, try to be a "performance" brand. Pontiac is a solidly blue-collar brand and middle-class America is simply too vulnerable to the vagaries of economic see-sawing. Sure having some V8 halo models in the lineup would be essential, but you can't have a middle-class brand whose lineup consists of two or three thirsty V8s with an econobox thrown in to appease the dealers. It'll work when times are good, but the slightest economic turndown, or fuel price spike, could potentially kill the brand.

I've contended for years that GM should scuttle Saturn, and sell a mix of Opels and Holdens as Pontiacs. Slap a twin-nostril grille on an Opel and voilà! Pontiac has NEVER been a "performance" brand, it was GM's "Sporty" alternative to vanilla Chevrolet. Heck, EVERY car was a "performance" car in the '60s. Pontiac's keyword should be "excitement", not "performance".
 

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Not more of "V8 means big,powerful and fuel guzzling" crap again. You car guys should know better. Also lets get off the whole dohc means sophisticated while pushrods do not. DOHC means complicated and heavier-that's bad engineering.
 

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Not more of "V8 means big,powerful and fuel guzzling" crap again. You car guys should know better. Also lets get off the whole dohc means sophisticated while pushrods do not. DOHC means complicated and heavier-that's bad engineering.
Where exactly was DOHC vs. pushrod mentioned? I think you're assuming all the pushrod engines out now have aluminum blocks, and that's not true. I'd sure like to see weights of a fully dressed Nissan DOHC 5.6 V8 vs. a iron block/aluminum head 5.3 V8.
 

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Where exactly was DOHC vs. pushrod mentioned? I think you're assuming all the pushrod engines out now have aluminum blocks, and that's not true. I'd sure like to see weights of a fully dressed Nissan DOHC 5.6 V8 vs. a iron block/aluminum head 5.3 V8.
Up above-"sophisticated" ultra vs lowly 6.2 truck engine. I'd like to see the weight differences between the 2 as well, but if the Nissan is going aluminum so should the GM engine. I know this though a Z06 engine is lighter than a M5 engine while being 123 ci larger.
 

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I don't know why one would think DOHC complicated and heavier, or at least necessarily. I mean with pushrod setup you have all these pushrods and rocker arms and other junk... there are lots of parts
Come on now, think of what a camshaft weighs compared to all the pushrods in a V8. Then think of 3 more cams plus the gears,chains and just the size and weight of the heads themselves, all the extra parts as well. More parts to get the same power to move a heavier weight around. The days of hp/per ci or liter are over. It never meant anything then and it still doesn't, not saying you brought it up though just putting it out there.
 

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Come on now, think of what a camshaft weighs compared to all the pushrods in a V8. Then think of 3 more cams plus the gears,chains and just the size and weight of the heads themselves, all the extra parts as well. More parts to get the same power to move a heavier weight around. The days of hp/per ci or liter are over. It never meant anything then and it still doesn't, not saying you brought it up though just putting it out there.
Doesn't weigh that much, keep in mind an OHV camshaft is a huge heavy thing with all these cams on it, since DOHC is operating fewer valves it tends to be lighter cam for cam

As for compactness this is the main advantage for OHV, keeping the engine compact. As mbuku said the SBC is quite trim compared to say a Northstar.



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Once you've driven a V8 its hard to go back to anything less.
That is true! I know not everyone will feel that way. But for those who like to hear the exhaust, nothing beats a V8. A V6 turbo may have more power, but it doesn't sound the same. Hell a flat 4 Subaru turbo has more power than many V8's but that sound leaves a lot to be desired.

Many people don't even know what kind of engine they have though; I've met dozens of people who didn't know if their car was front wheel drive or rear wheel drive.......for those folks (and I'm not hating on them), it doesn't matter what's under then hood.
 

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Up above-"sophisticated" ultra vs lowly 6.2 truck engine. I'd like to see the weight differences between the 2 as well, but if the Nissan is going aluminum so should the GM engine. I know this though a Z06 engine is lighter than a M5 engine while being 123 ci larger.
A V8 vs a V10 and the V8 is lighter....WOW. Do you honestly think it would be the other way around? And And Merc's 6.3 is just as light as the LS7 while producing the same power with .8L less displacement.
 

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A V8 vs a V10 and the V8 is lighter....WOW. Do you honestly think it would be the other way around? And And Merc's 6.3 is just as light as the LS7 while producing the same power with .8L less displacement.
You proved my point. The number of cylinders is irrelevent and the 6.3 is just as light as the 7.0 engine. If anything it should be lighter. Same power with less displacement-so what? Power/displacement is meaningless. Then you have the question of how they set up their engines from the factory. Z06 engine left the factory at what they believed was the best balance of power and economy. So I never look at factory numbers for the Z06 engine or the Mercedes engine as if that's them pushed to their max or all the company could extract from them, but most people do.
 

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Doesn't weigh that much, keep in mind an OHV camshaft is a huge heavy thing with all these cams on it, since DOHC is operating fewer valves it tends to be lighter cam for cam

As for compactness this is the main advantage for OHV, keeping the engine compact. As mbuku said the SBC is quite trim compared to say a Northstar.
That may be but it's still 3 more cams.
 
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