[afako]

Automotive News Europe. European automakers and suppliers have been
trying for years to get U.S. drivers excited about
diesels. Experience has proved that a test drive
can be a deal-maker. At least that was what I witnessed when testing a
2014 BMW X4 diesel with my father when he
visited Germany from the U.S. a month ago. He couldn’t believe how powerful, responsive
and quiet the X4

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20141128/BLOG15/141129863?template=mobile

 

[voyager]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

Diesels actually suit the way most Americans drive: usually no stick shift and using the engine's torque rather than revving it up. That doesn't have to imply having to settle for mediocre performance. Take the Audi TT TDi. This entry-level diesel delivers a perhaps modest 181 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque, sipping just 4.3-litres of petrol per 100 km. That equates to 54.7 mpg. The TT diesel accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 7 seconds and reaches a top speed of 146 mph.

 

[richmond2000]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

I would also add that American driving environments for the most part favour hi speeds on straight roads VS curvy mountain carving which the "heavy" diesel engine option usually affects handling but the LOW down torque allows hi way usage with LOW engine RPM

 

[Ruperts Trooper]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

If you look at the power/torque curves of a modern diesel, they're more like a traditional American V8 than a modern I4 - sound different though.

 

[Oldsmobile stopped]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

If Americans had EU government overtaxed $9 gallon EU gasoline fuel prices in the USA, then l guess diesels might make sense.

 

[Oldsmobile stopped]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

Diesels actually suit the way most Americans drive: usually no stick shift and using the engine's torque rather than revving it up. That doesn't have to imply having to settle for mediocre performance. Take the Audi TT TDi. This entry-level diesel delivers a perhaps modest 181 hp and 280 lb-ft of torque, sipping just 4.3-litres of petrol per 100 km. That equates to 54.7 mpg. The TT diesel accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 7 seconds and reaches a top speed of 146 mph.

AudiSSsss are dull bland anodyne and very boring SSSssss, would not be seen dead in one. They are driven by total idiots with to much money who don't know how to drive a car. Ideally suited for someone thinks it will make them look understated, when they are total incompetents in reality.

I would rather own a nice v8 Camaro, Stang, Charger or nice ole Hemi Barracuda i.e. muscle cars that ooze character and personality. Or even better still would save up a bit more and buy a nice Ford GT, Viper or Corvette Stingray.

Drop a fuel efficient diesel 54 MPG option in a classic fun to drive American car, yep l would not say no to one. It accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 7 seconds and reaches a top speed of 146 mph the performance thats nothing special Turbo Technic Capri's were doing that back in the 1970's in Europe were more spacious in side than a cramped up Audi TT.

Would consider buying any American classic car with a diesel as long as it's not in that dull, boring bland anodyne shaped AudiSSSsss full of cheap n' nasty Skoda bits.. Totally devoid of any personality, lacks charisma is totally characterless , designed by a empty vacant mind - Yuk..

 

[voyager]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

What you think of Audis and their drivers is irrelevant to the issue. Point is that modern diesels (the TT was just an example) offer both performance as well as economy, and are easy to use.

 

[swagled]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

My experience with my Cruze Diesel is that it's not "a driving machine". The underpinnings are from an economy car, the LRR tires are a bit skinny. The low RPM of the diesel gives the car a "loping along" impression to the driver.

Yes some of those things can be modified - I'm just taking about the stock car experience, and how it rides with the cruise control on, which is how most people probably use their Cruze diesels. It gets 50+mpg on the highway and that's primarily what I wanted from it. Never was my intention to be leadfooting it around.

 

[Ruperts Trooper]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

My experience with my Cruze Diesel is that it's not "a driving machine". The underpinnings are from an economy car, the LRR tires are a bit skinny. The low RPM of the diesel gives the car a "loping along" impression to the driver.

Yes some of those things can be modified - I'm just taking about the stock car experience, and how it rides with the cruise control on, which is how most people probably use their Cruze diesels. It gets 50+mpg on the highway and that's primarily what I wanted from it. Never was my intention to be leadfooting it around.

I don't think Cruze diesel will do much to get Americans into diesels - it's at the opposite end of the spectrum compared to the BMW X4 in the article.

 

[Larkbill]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

I don't doubt that the current diesels drive just fine. Our newer trucks are quiet, and powerful. But the current state of diesel emission controls make them ridiculous to own. Besides the increased cost to buy you can count on some expensive repairs along the way as well. Heck, warranty costs have chased Cat out of the class 8 truck business. No wonder independent truckers are buying glider kits in large numbers to recycle their pre-'07 serial numbers and emissions. Trucks have been doing the Beta testing for the garbage car and light truck owners are being inflicted with now. Not good. I drive one every day and have no intention of putting one in MY garage.

And Audi? Audi can't even build reliable gas engines. One of the worst cars in the world to work on. They were that way when I worked on them in the early '70s and has never changed.

 

[tripowergto]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

There is zero motivation unless diesel is on par with REGULAR gasoline, which is currently dropping quickly at the pump.

 

[patrickbec]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

After spending a lot of time in a Mercedes C350 I came to respect diesels, but never to love it. It still stinks, sounds uninspiring and with the variable quality of diesel, can result in huge emissions of particulate matter- it's not exactly cool to look in your rear view mirror and see a black smoke screen laid down by your luxury car like its a world war 1 destroyer! And with the complaints coming out of Europe about diesel's health impacts, I wonder how soon it will be before they are banned? In fact, instead of wasting money on diesels, I think Cadillac should spend money on an advertising campaigns bragging that it has an all petrol fleet that doesn't cause cancer, is better for the environment and is more refined than diesel!

"The WHO classified diesel exhaust carcinogenic to humans in June 2012 and outdoor air pollution and particulate matter as carcinogenic to humans in October 2013. A state of the art report by the WHO earlier last year said “Many studies have documented associations between day-to-day variations in NO2 and variations in mortality, hospital admissions, and respiratory symptoms. Also, more studies have now been published showing associations between long-term exposure to NO2 and mortality and morbidity. Both short- and long-term studies have found these adverse associations at concentrations that were at or below the current EU limit values, which for NO2 are equivalent to the WHO Air Quality Guidelines”. Last September, another leading group of scientists said there is evidence for a long-term effect of NO2 on natural mortality as high as that of PM2.5 which has long been considered the most dangerous air pollutant.

Air pollution is also an equality issue. Policy Exchange found, in its report titled Something in the Air: The forgotten crisis of Britain’s poor air quality that in the worst 10% of London for NO2, 5-10 year old children are 47% more likely than the London average to be eligible for free school meals and residents are 26% more likely than the London average to be on income support.

Diesel vehicles and gas heating and cooking, together increasingly with new local sources of combustion, are the main sources of NO2 in London. Policy Exchange has estimated that diesel vehicles are responsible for 91% of dangerous airborne particles (PM2.5) and 95% of NO2 exhaust emissions from road transport in London. The Mayor estimates that 82% of NO2 emissions in London are generated within the city."

- See more at: http://cleanair.london/hot-topics/e...-worst-on-air-pollution/#sthash.lmlBhS8v.dpuf

 

[Ruperts Trooper]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

The carcinigenic element of diesel use is particulates, soot by any other name, which is why EU mandates forced all new diesels to have particulate filters 5 years ago and many had them 10 years ago, including GM Opel/Vauxhall models. Visible soot out of the exhaust doesn't happen any more.

Because the EU focussed primarily on CO2 reduction, the diesel limits for NOx were more generous than petrol/gasoline but that is being eliminated by bring diesel levels down in with petrol/gasoline.

A number of European cities, including London, do have issues with air quality and may lead to vehicle restrictions - applied equally to diesel and petrol/gasoline and applied equally to passenger and goods vehicles. Such restrictions are likely to lead to an overall drop in new car sales.

The popularity of diesel in Europe is because of the high tax on fuel - the lack of that cost pressure in countries outside Europe means they'll never buy diesels in anything like the same proportions as Europe, that's just the way it is.

As North America reduces it's dependence on international well oil, by producing more shale oil, the popularity/unpopularity of diesel may depend on the ease with which diesel can be refined from shale oil, or otherwise - I have no idea on that one.

 

[Oldsmobile stopped]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

What you think of Audis and their drivers is irrelevant to the issue. Point is that modern diesels (the TT was just an example) offer both performance as well as economy, and are easy to use.

Nothing wrong with dropping a frugal diesel in a nice classic American car, l don't have problem with that.

But don't want to be bored to sleep with a dull boring anodyne shapped Audi TT

Looking at Audi TT European sales numbers, they should have called it the Audi DD or Dodo
2007 38,335
2008 28,893
2009 19,624
2010 17,514
2011 17,017
2012 13,623
2013 12,331

Ford sold 9 million Mustangs in the US, Audi TT SSsss will have be boring people to death in Europe for the next 700 years to hit achieve similar sales numbers in Europe despite having over double the population.

Come 2015 Audi TT sales will be 2,000 when the Stang arrives in Europe so it might take a bit longer than 700 years.

 

[Oldsmobile stopped]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

That right Patrick, the UK Government is going to be fined $469 millions by the European Union for Audi TT diesel particulate pollution.

British Government will feed the costs of these EU fine back with a massive hike in taxes for diesel owners to absorb, i.e price Audi TT Dodo off the roads of the UK.

Audi TT diesel has already costs Europe £277 billion to £789 billion a year in extra health costs and prematurely killed over 100,000 people a year” 100,000 less people will be able to buy an Audi if they are six foot under the ground.

Daily Mail..
Junk scrap all diesel cars: They're a health hazard, so scrap them and pay owners £2,000, Boris tells MPs.
LINK

 

[Ruperts Trooper]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

Comparing US and European sales is a pointless task - customers in the two markets want quite different sorts of cars, because so many aspects of attitude, culture and geography are different.

Mustang will never sell in big numbers in Europe, there just isn't the demand for that sort of car, Ford themselves are planning 2,500/year across the whole of Europe.

 

[Oldsmobile stopped]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

Comparing US and European sales is a pointless task - customers in the two markets want quite different sorts of cars, because so many aspects of attitude, culture and geography are different.

Mustang will never sell in big numbers in Europe, there just isn't the demand for that sort of car, Ford themselves are planning 2,500/year across the whole of Europe.

Anything with a v8 in will struggle in Europe with $9 gas, just for a matter of interest what was the last v8 mass produced British car made, a Rover SD1 Rupert?

Still saying that, l would not have the Mustang with anything else other than v8 under the hood. Would a v8 gasoline hybrid or LPG Stang break any of the EU taxes rules Rupert?

 

[Ruperts Trooper]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

just for a matter of interest what was the last v8 mass produced British car made, a Rover SD1 Rupert?

Still saying that, l would not have the Mustang with anything else other than v8 under the hood. Would a v8 gasoline hybrid or LPG Stang break any of the EU taxes rules Rupert?

I think the Rovers were the only British mass-produced V8 although plenty of low volume models - the Rover P5B was low volume premium but the P6 3500 and SD1 V8 sold in significant numbers - there was also the Rover 75 V8, but that was hand-built as a halo model.

Hybrids and LPG cars don't break any EU rules, they're tested and rated on fuel consumption just like any other - but on long trips a hybrid is no better than it's I/C engine - the LPG saving is around 40% in fuel cost but few do it because of the conversion cost and risk of long-term engine damage.

 

[Oldsmobile stopped]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

I think the Rovers were the only British mass-produced V8 although plenty of low volume models - the Rover P5B was low volume premium but the P6 3500 and SD1 V8 sold in significant numbers - there was also the Rover 75 V8, but that was hand-built as a halo model.

Hybrids and LPG cars don't break any EU rules, they're tested and rated on fuel consumption just like any other - but on long trips a hybrid is no better than it's I/C engine - the LPG saving is around 40% in fuel cost but few do it because of the conversion cost and risk of long-term engine damage.

A big v8 is ticking over purring at 70 MPG is not using a lot of fuel on a long trip, little cars reving their arse off are more uneconomical noisy on long trips wear out faster, the hybrid l meant was for driving in built up urban area's. There is even cylinder deactivation that could be used in built up urban areas.

 

[Ruperts Trooper]

Re: How to get the U.S. into diesels: Takea test drive

A big v8 is ticking over purring at 70 MPG is not using a lot of fuel on a long trip, little cars reving their arse off are more uneconomical noisy on long trips wear out faster, the hybrid l meant was for driving in built up urban area's. There is even cylinder deactivation that could be used in built up urban areas.

It doesn't happen in practice.