[GMusa]

Houses passes bill with $5k Volt tax-credit, mandatory alternative fuel pumps

Most know House Resolution 6899 as the offshore drilling bill, but it also contains the plug-in tax credit that Toyota complained about yesterday, as well as a mandate that all gas stations offer an alternative fuel pump by 2018. The U.S. House of Representatives passed the bill today with a vote of 236 - 189, and the details of the plug-in tax credit are different than what Automotive News reported yesterday.

Kicking Tires reports that the tax credit would apply to any "new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle" with a battery of at least 5 kWh. It would start at $3,000 and add $200 for every kilowatt hour over 5 up to a maximum of $5,000. The 2011 Chevy Volt is the only plug-in vehicle officially confirmed for sale so far, and with a 16kWh battery would max out the credit at $5,000. The bill also reveals that the plug-in tax credit would have an identical lifespan as currently available hybrid tax credits, which means the first 60,000 vehicles per company that meet the requirements would be eligible, and the credit would be reduced by 25% then 50% before being phased out. If passed into law, the plug-in tax credit would take effect after December 31st, 2008, though the first eligible vehicle won't be available for another two years.

As for the section on mandatory alternative fuel pumps, it requires that every gas station owned by a major gas company have at least one alternative fuel pump by 2018. The bill specifies "alternative fuel" as natural gas, E85 or higher, biodiesel, renewable diesel or hydrogen. Any company not in compliance by 2018 would be fined $100,000 per station, though a $50,000 tax credit would be offered to stations that choose an E85 pump. We'll let you discuss the merits of that particular provision in the comments below.

[Source: Kicking Tires]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/17/houses-passes-bill-with-5k-volt-tax-credit-mandatory-alternati/

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/09/plug-in-tax-cre.html

 

[T-Type]

Wasn't GM hoping to get $7500?

 

[Beau]

Well this tax credit will make sure all those that were going to buy it no matter what the cost will have a discount whereas those who are struggling to purchase it, will have less of a discount.

Oh well its better than nothing.

 

[regfootball]

enough to pay the sales tax.......

 

[E. Haskell]

So if GM can price the Volt under $40k, I think it would be a good deal. $35k or less is not a bad price for one of the most technologically advanced cars on the road.

 

[JM9777]

While the Volt tax credit may be nice, this bill is a sham and needs to be killed in its current form. It essentially places about 87% of the known offshore oil deposits on the continental shelf permanently off limits (by limiting drilling to the zone between 50 and 100 miles off shore), and allows access to the rest only if the individual state approves it. The bill does not provide for any revenue-sharing with the state, so there is absolutely no incentive for the individual states to allow oil drilling. This is an election-year bill designed to fool people into thinking that Congress did something to allow oil drilling, when in fact it actually makes things worse. If Congress does nothing, the current total ban on new offshore drilling will expire in early October.

 

[osv_alero]

Sounds good to me. Hopefully gas stations will start to put in the E85 stations in the next couple of years rather than waiting until 2018, assuming there is enough production capacity to meet the need.

** There isn't enough oil to make it worth drilling a this point. We are better off spending the money on more alternative fuels like Algae or Trash Ethanol.

 

[genjy]

I think $35k is still a lot of money. It's basically BMW-money to many people.

The Prius still has a strong reputation to go on... it's practically synonymous with the word "hybrid."

However, if Honda can keep its hybrid compacts under $20k, then Honda will win.

 

[RadRiv455]

While the Volt tax credit may be nice, this bill is a sham and needs to be killed in its current form. It essentially places about 87% of the known offshore oil deposits on the continental shelf permanently off limits (by limiting drilling to the zone between 50 and 100 miles off shore), and allows access to the rest only if the individual state approves it. The bill does not provide for any revenue-sharing with the state, so there is absolutely no incentive for the individual states to allow oil drilling. This is an election-year bill designed to fool people into thinking that Congress did something to allow oil drilling, when in fact it actually makes things worse. If Congress does nothing, the current total ban on new offshore drilling will expire in early October.

I thought this bill also reduced/eliminated tax subsidies for big oil?

I think drilling for more oil is not an answer, near term or long term...so I hope this gets into Law...and the $5000 on the first 60,000 Volts is cool.

 

[Chaz_23]

I don't see this passing the Senate.

 

[E. Haskell]

I think $35k is still a lot of money. It's basically BMW-money to many people.

Gotta pay to play. Besides, I don't think GM plans to produce 200,000+ Volts. At 10-60k units, the Volt will be a niche product for the first few years. Those that buy based on price will get a Prius and those that won't settle for anything but the best will buy the Volt.

 

[Beau]

"I thought this bill also reduced/eliminated tax subsidies for big oil?

I think drilling for more oil is not an answer, near term or long term...so I hope this gets into Law...and the $5000 on the first 60,000 Volts is cool."

Yeah Your right, I mean after all we could save as much oil as we could produce from drilling, if we all just properly inflated our tires...

ROLL my MOTHER F'IN EYES!

 

[E. Haskell]

Yeah Your right, I mean after all we could save as much oil as we could produce from drilling, if we all just properly inflated our tires...

ROLL my MOTHER F'IN EYES!

:lmao::lmao::lmao:

 

[blaksabb]

It's kind of funny that the EV-1 was only available as a lease while today's financial climate sees GMAC and many other banks walk away from leasing.

I really hope things normalize by the time the Volt is released in late 2010. Financial options are going to be key in making the $30-$40,000 Volt a success to its core clients (the hard-working middle class).

Even just a 50% residual and reasonable money factors for qualified buyers can make a car in that price range pretty achievable.

 

[Ambalanche]

I really don't want to get into a political pissing contest, but I agree with JM9777 and couldn't dissagree more with osv_Alero. Know the facts please.

 

[PhishPhood]

Houses passes bill with $5k Volt tax-credit, mandatory alternative fuel pumps

Most know House Resolution 6899 as the offshore drilling bill, but it also contains the plug-in tax credit that Toyota complained about yesterday, as well as a mandate that all gas stations offer an alternative fuel pump by 2018. The U.S. House of Representatives passed the bill today with a vote of 236 - 189, and the details of the plug-in tax credit are different than what Automotive News reported yesterday.

Kicking Tires reports that the tax credit would apply to any "new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle" with a battery of at least 5 kWh. It would start at $3,000 and add $200 for every kilowatt hour over 5 up to a maximum of $5,000. The 2011 Chevy Volt is the only plug-in vehicle officially confirmed for sale so far, and with a 16kWh battery would max out the credit at $5,000. The bill also reveals that the plug-in tax credit would have an identical lifespan as currently available hybrid tax credits, which means the first 60,000 vehicles per company that meet the requirements would be eligible, and the credit would be reduced by 25% then 50% before being phased out. If passed into law, the plug-in tax credit would take effect after December 31st, 2008, though the first eligible vehicle won't be available for another two years.

As for the section on mandatory alternative fuel pumps, it requires that every gas station owned by a major gas company have at least one alternative fuel pump by 2018. The bill specifies "alternative fuel" as natural gas, E85 or higher, biodiesel, renewable diesel or hydrogen. Any company not in compliance by 2018 would be fined $100,000 per station, though a $50,000 tax credit would be offered to stations that choose an E85 pump. We'll let you discuss the merits of that particular provision in the comments below.

[Source: Kicking Tires]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/17/houses-passes-bill-with-5k-volt-tax-credit-mandatory-alternati/

http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008/09/plug-in-tax-cre.html

OK that's the good news....

Now here's the dark side that no one will tell anyone. Congress won't tell ya, GM won't tell ya, Toyota won't tell ya, only your good friends at the IRS will give ya the str8 scoop.

Here is it. If you are subject to AMT you will in all likelihood lose your entire tax credit. ZERO!!!!

Just who is going to buy such a $40000 4-seater commuter? It won't be Joe and Jane Lunchpail who are struggling to keep their family budget from imploding. It won't be the struggling middle class with three kids in private schools with a HELOC and Mortgage on an upside-down home.

It will be the well-to-do suburbanites who have plenty of money and/or assets who normally buy $35000-$45000 vehicles. Who is subject to AMT? It's the well-to-do who have big incomes and lots of investments.

Those that can afford the Volt are specifically those who can't take the tax credit.

 

[goatgary]

I think $35k is still a lot of money. It's basically BMW-money to many people.

The Prius still has a strong reputation to go on... it's practically synonymous with the word "hybrid."
However, if Honda can keep its hybrid compacts under $20k, then Honda will win.

No it won't. Even with their up coming plug in they can only get a 10 mile range...maybe.
The current Hybrid is around 45MPG.

If Volt comes anywhere near the 100MPG claim (the engine runs to recharge the battery after 40 miles) and a 400 mile range...it will be a sell-out even at $40K.

 

[YupYupYup]

Let the Toyota crying begin...

 

[E. Haskell]

I just built a Prius with leather and package #3 (stability control, CD changer, backup camera) and the total price was $29,000.

If Toyota can sell that pile for $29k, how much will they charge for an equally equipped plug in model?

 

[PhishPhood]

No it won't. Even with their up coming plug in they can only get a 10 mile range...maybe.
The current Hybrid is around 45MPG.

If Volt comes anywhere near the 100MPG claim (the engine runs to recharge the battery after 40 miles) and a 400 mile range...it will be a sell-out even at $40K.

From the other thread it appears that the ratings for the Volt will be
40 mi gas-free
50 mpg while use the ICE

The range is a very very dangerous concept to bank on. If the above numbers are accurate and one were to drive 400 miles straight without recharging the net average fuel economy would be 56 mpg!!! The first 40 miles would be gas free, then the next 360 miles would be on gas all the time. Nice rating but not for $40000.


However if the driver made ten 40 mile commutes his fuel economy would be nearly infinite...no fuel burned. He'd still have nearly a full tank of fuel.

Banking on a range as a selling point is a bad strategy. Focus on commuting, commuting, commuting nothing more. Yes the Volt will go from Boston to LA or NY to Miami but the farther it goes from its charging port less is the benefit of the gas-free range....especially since the price is likely to be $40000.