GM Inside News Forum banner
1 - 20 of 64 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,750 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Nick Gibbs
Automotive News Europe
January 23, 2015 16:33 CET

BARCELONA -- Honda will end sales of the Accord midsize sedan in Europe after the car failed to make headway against German rivals.

“We are running out the Accord and we will not return to the segment,” Leon Brannan, Honda’s UK car division’s boss, told Automotive News Europe at a press event here.

Honda has strugged to sell the Accord in a segment where even the most popular mass-market models such as the Volkswagen Passat and Ford Mondeo are losing sales to premium rivals such as the BMW 3 series and Mercedes C class.

Brannan said the midsize segment is dominated by corporate sales to German premium brands. “The cost to compete is eye-watering,” he said.
More at link: Automotive News Europe
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,262 Posts
Thanks for reposting after it was deleted.

It just amazes me how the Japanese can get things so right in the USA but can't make much headway in Europe. Would the Japanese have ever been able to make as much headway in the USA if the domestic makes weren't so weak in the 1980's? Meaning if GM, Ford and Chrysler produced quality, well built cars in the 1980's would people have ever turned to the Japanese?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,898 Posts
That was confirmed by Honda UK back in October after months of speculation


22 Oct, 2014 11:40am Lawrence Allan
Honda UK confirms that the European Accord saloon and Tourer estate will be axed next year, with no replacement planned.

Rumours of the demise of the Honda Accord from our shores have been circulating for a while. And it seems the Japanese firm has officially taken the drastic step to withdraw the car from its European line-up early next year, with no replacement expected.

Honda UK has confirmed stories that the Accord name will disappear from its lineup, citing 'declining market trends' for the traditional saloon and estate, in what is now a primarily 'corporate' and fleet-based market.

The decision appears to be a global one, as Honda Australia Director Stephen Collins confirmed to the Australian website The Motor Report.

He states that the market for the Accord was "primarily Europe" and that the decline in that segment here has resulted in this "global decision".
Honda Accord Tourer rear tracking

Details of when exactly the Ford Mondeo rival will be dropped from the brand's UK lineup aren't confirmed, although Mr Collins states that February 2015 will be the '"final month of production for the Accord in Australia". European dealers are expected to cease selling the Accord even earlier than that.

Other markets have different versions of the Accord that will still be sold. In America, this version was sold as the Acura TSX alongside a different Accord, and was recently replaced. Australia itself also has the 'wide-body' version for sale alongside the Euro car, which will pick up the sales.

The move reflects the growing trend in Europe as buyers flock to crossovers and SUVs instead of the traditional three-box family cars, such as the Mondeo, the Vauxhall Insignia and Mazda 6. Honda has already announced a small crossover called the HR-V, appearing in 2015.

Smaller family hatches, such as the Ford Focus, are also becoming larger, negating the need for bigger models.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/honda/accord/89133/honda-accord-to-be-axed-in-2015-and-not-replaced


23 July 2012 http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/uncertain-uk-future-honda-accord
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,913 Posts
Thanks for reposting after it was deleted.

It just amazes me how the Japanese can get things so right in the USA but can't make much headway in Europe. Would the Japanese have ever been able to make as much headway in the USA if the domestic makes weren't so weak in the 1980's? Meaning if GM, Ford and Chrysler produced quality, well built cars in the 1980's would people have ever turned to the Japanese?
There's a large social aspect in place more so than simple the car or the perceived quality of such. Many countries are proud of their industry, continuing to support what it is that makes their products unique even through the ebbs and flows. German's are a good example and the Japanese as well. They are proud of what it is they do. The English gave away what industry they had in the segment. The United States is still trying, slowly and incrementally.

In the United States, we've been conditioned and convinced our industry doesn't matter. Go sample any public opinion, family get together, parents of the kids sports team, the comments section of an automotive article. It's apparent what's been instilled into the perception of the masses. Most of the people couldn't care less and are simply incapable of understanding the vast benefits of a strong domestic automotive industry. These are the same conditioned American's that will ask, "Where's all the jobs?" I guess they can enjoy driving their import to their next job interview.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
774 Posts
Isn't the euro Accord the TSX or TLX or something along those lines or did co development stop previously?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,633 Posts
Thanks for reposting after it was deleted.

It just amazes me how the Japanese can get things so right in the USA but can't make much headway in Europe. Would the Japanese have ever been able to make as much headway in the USA if the domestic makes weren't so weak in the 1980's? Meaning if GM, Ford and Chrysler produced quality, well built cars in the 1980's would people have ever turned to the Japanese?

For the '80s ( and before......and after ) the UnLevel Playing Field + Yen Subsidy was beyond enormous - not that the domestics played their hands particularly well.

The entry of the Japanese makes hit the Europeans in this market as well.

A complicated subject to be sure with many variables and causes and effects but the bottomline was that the lower end European presence was basically annihilated in the US.

As in one and done ie quickly - and early.


The Euros had to carry a double whack on the currency exchanges.


The Japanese brands were never as brilliant as many in the USA think.

Anywhere where the playing field is just part way level they have always just been another player and or come up short.


****


The banksters and their activities are the single most important variable in the entire history of the automobile especially past 1910; they have helped determine the winners and losers more so than all the other combined.

Many are unaware of this.

Not a uniquely Japanese phenomena either.

In the later period before the development of the imports in terms of truly meaningful volume - excluding VW......

GM + Ford + Chrysler on top with AMC and vestiges of Studebaker and Checker and a few others for window dressing did not occur purely based on merit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dagr382

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,803 Posts
There's a large social aspect in place more so than simple the car or the perceived quality of such. Many countries are proud of their industry, continuing to support what it is that makes their products unique even through the ebbs and flows. German's are a good example and the Japanese as well. They are proud of what it is they do. The English gave away what industry they had in the segment. The United States is still trying, slowly and incrementally.

In the United States, we've been conditioned and convinced our industry doesn't matter. Go sample any public opinion, family get together, parents of the kids sports team, the comments section of an automotive article. It's apparent what's been instilled into the perception of the masses. Most of the people couldn't care less and are simply incapable of understanding the vast benefits of a strong domestic automotive industry. These are the same conditioned American's that will ask, "Where's all the jobs?" I guess they can enjoy driving their import to their next job interview.
Excellent post.

Most people in the U.S. just do not understand how difficult it is for any foreign brand to succeed in Europe and why Cadillac will never make it in Europe and Chevy failed.

Only way to succeed in Europe is to use existing "European" infrastructure to "build a brand" with and even then it will need a limited focus. This also why I keep saying GM can introduce GMC into Opel dealers (duplicating the U.S. Buick/GMC strategy) and sell a good number of GMC products into a limited, but profitable segment at little cost/risk.

Once established GMC sales can increase since most production can be moved to Eastern Europe or even Western Europe for the right vehicle. GMC targets a completely different buyer than Buick and Opel so any GMC sales for Opel dealers are ones they would not have made otherwise so there is a built in benefit for Opel dealers to actively promote GMC sales. Increases in sales of "the same" GMC/Opel product improves sales volumes making production more cost effective allowing more choices of manufacturing locations.

Someday GM might figure this out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
428 Posts
There's a large social aspect in place more so than simple the car or the perceived quality of such. Many countries are proud of their industry, continuing to support what it is that makes their products unique even through the ebbs and flows. German's are a good example and the Japanese as well. They are proud of what it is they do. The English gave away what industry they had in the segment. The United States is still trying, slowly and incrementally.

In the United States, we've been conditioned and convinced our industry doesn't matter. Go sample any public opinion, family get together, parents of the kids sports team, the comments section of an automotive article. It's apparent what's been instilled into the perception of the masses. Most of the people couldn't care less and are simply incapable of understanding the vast benefits of a strong domestic automotive industry. These are the same conditioned American's that will ask, "Where's all the jobs?" I guess they can enjoy driving their import to their next job interview.
Well said!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,262 Posts
There's a large social aspect in place more so than simple the car or the perceived quality of such. Many countries are proud of their industry, continuing to support what it is that makes their products unique even through the ebbs and flows. German's are a good example and the Japanese as well. They are proud of what it is they do. The English gave away what industry they had in the segment. The United States is still trying, slowly and incrementally.

In the United States, we've been conditioned and convinced our industry doesn't matter. Go sample any public opinion, family get together, parents of the kids sports team, the comments section of an automotive article. It's apparent what's been instilled into the perception of the masses. Most of the people couldn't care less and are simply incapable of understanding the vast benefits of a strong domestic automotive industry. These are the same conditioned American's that will ask, "Where's all the jobs?" I guess they can enjoy driving their import to their next job interview.
Yes, but when did this conditioning occur? One of the most obvious and impactful industry of any nation is their auto industry. In the 1970's and 1980's our auto industry taught us that American engineering was a joke, thus loosing the respect of the American people. The German and Japanese auto industries never let their home team down like ours did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,633 Posts
That's because in the Post War period, the Japanese and German auto industry - and people at large for that matter, were never let down by their respective financial sectors and Governments in the same way.

Nobody has faced such an uphill battle at home or anywhere else as the domestics have here @ home post '72.

And btw, you are also deadnuts wrong about the American people and their attitude towards American Engineering or American Automotive Engineering in the 1980s.

We all got where the problem lay as far as the firms themselves went - which is exactly where the problems reside today.

Management.

You completely miss the other half of the frustration felt in these times - we knew 'we knew' how to do it right.

Hell, well more than 2/3s of the rest of what Japan Inc needed in the first three decades was also based on things like stolen intellectual property rights, and real good American know how - and plant tours.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dagr382

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,109 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,898 Posts
Excellent post.

Most people in the U.S. just do not understand how difficult it is for any foreign brand to succeed in Europe and why Cadillac will never make it in Europe and Chevy failed.

Only way to succeed in Europe is to use existing "European" infrastructure to "build a brand" with and even then it will need a limited focus. This also why I keep saying GM can introduce GMC into Opel dealers (duplicating the U.S. Buick/GMC strategy) and sell a good number of GMC products into a limited, but profitable segment at little cost/risk.

Once established GMC sales can increase since most production can be moved to Eastern Europe or even Western Europe for the right vehicle. GMC targets a completely different buyer than Buick and Opel so any GMC sales for Opel dealers are ones they would not have made otherwise so there is a built in benefit for Opel dealers to actively promote GMC sales. Increases in sales of "the same" GMC/Opel product improves sales volumes making production more cost effective allowing more choices of manufacturing locations.

Someday GM might figure this out.
Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia had no infrastructure in Europe - they've built their brands from scratch.

The models that Chevrolet and Cadillac were trying to sell in Europe was a major part of their problem - they may be excellent cars in North America but held little attraction to Europeans.

The difference is the attitude to export markets - on the one hand they find out what customers want, which models sell, which changes are needed from domestic production and are happy to take two decades to establish themselves - the same approach taken by the German brands in other European countries and globally - on the other hand they want to sell more models abroad and simply expect Johnny, Pierre, Fritz, etc to just buy what Americans like - guess which is which?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,015 Posts
Thanks for reposting after it was deleted.

It just amazes me how the Japanese can get things so right in the USA but can't make much headway in Europe. Would the Japanese have ever been able to make as much headway in the USA if the domestic makes weren't so weak in the 1980's? Meaning if GM, Ford and Chrysler produced quality, well built cars in the 1980's would people have ever turned to the Japanese?
The American news media helped the Japanese get a foothold in the USA. They put down the American cars to no end, when the Japanese cars were not any better. The biggest culprit was and still is is Consumer Reports. The worst car I ever owned was a brand new Datsun from the early seventies. That car had major engine problems, brakes, transmission problems with less than 15,000 miles on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15,633 Posts
Ouch! Honda was once the cool innovative Japanese auto manufacturer, and I really liked them. I sometimes wonder"What went wrong?"
Well, one of the many would be Toyota has been tryin' to do to them what they did - and got away with doing to Nissan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,220 Posts
Ouch! Honda was once the cool innovative Japanese auto manufacturer, and I really liked them. I sometimes wonder"What went wrong?"
I really believe it's "Management" just as America 123 says above. I see it in our industry as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,882 Posts
Thanks for reposting after it was deleted.

It just amazes me how the Japanese can get things so right in the USA but can't make much headway in Europe. Would the Japanese have ever been able to make as much headway in the USA if the domestic makes weren't so weak in the 1980's? Meaning if GM, Ford and Chrysler produced quality, well built cars in the 1980's would people have ever turned to the Japanese?
I think it is a culture thing. I believe Europeans are more patriotic to their own. Plus, except for Toyoda, the Japanese cars in the 80's were extremely bad, if not worse than our offerings. Every Nissan rusted out in just a few years and you didn't see 10 year old Hondas on the road back then. IMO, the Japanese brands didn't sell a good product until the 90's. It is a culture thing and its reason why countries put up tariffs and make entry difficult, because they know their citizens are going to buy imports and hurt local manufacturing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,566 Posts
I think one "BASIC" point is the British often get there cars through work as part of there pay package and why would you take a Accord or a Mondeo over a BMW?
+ there is a LOT of social pressure to buy the "right" brand
and for japan VS USA/EU both the USA and west Europe where engaging in high dollar fiscal practices as it KEEPS inflation down and consumers/Voters like low prices and low inflation + it helps "mask" the case of the economies are NOT growing like 10+ years earlier
and further that the Japanese makers offered something the US ones where NOT making when the US market was changing quickly + "major" PR mistakes like GM stating the cost of LIVES is LOWER then a $10 gas tank liner to a Judge + stating that US consumers do NOT want a car to last longer then 100K miles + Labour unrest /strike action
and for EU "home team support" look to BL and the UK's love of German cars in the 70/80's
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,882 Posts
Ouch! Honda was once the cool innovative Japanese auto manufacturer, and I really liked them. I sometimes wonder"What went wrong?"
In Europe, Honda has never been much. They are regarded similarly as Buick is in the U.S, staid, but well put together, but sales wise they are like Mitsubishi. I think their best selling vehicle is the CRV, but after that there isn't much. And their marketshare is like 1% or something.
 
1 - 20 of 64 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top