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just an update:

Holden worker jailed over engine theft

http://www.smh.com.au/national/holden-worker-jailed-over-engine-theft-20141104-11grkm.html


Holden worker who helped steal engines from the car maker's Adelaide plant has been jailed for at least two years and six months.

Jason Paul Walton, 41, pleaded guilty in the District Court to two counts of theft, related to his role in a scheme involving the resale of stolen parts from the Holden factory in Elizabeth.

The court heard on Tuesday that Walton received at least $10,000 for helping to steal 40 V8 and V6 engines, worth a total of more than $60,000, between 2010 and 2012.

Walton, a maintenance worker at the Elizabeth plant, informed another party by text messages when the parts were available to be picked up.

Judge Steven Millsteed accepted that Walton was not the architect of the scheme, which existed before he became involved.

But Walton's conduct represented a "grave breach" of his employer's trust, the judge said.

He jailed Walton for six years, but said he would grant him a relatively low non-parole period of two years and six months in recognition of his contrition and good character.

The judge suspended an 18-month term he imposed on Michelle Carol Rose, 38, who pleaded guilty to nine counts of money laundering.

Rose withdrew a total of $224,000 from a personal bank account over a period of nine months.

Judge Millsteed said Rose played a relatively minor role in the scheme and did not profit directly but clearly knew the money was tainted.

He also suspended a 14-month jail term imposed on Darren Charles Thorne, 42, who admitted one count of money laundering.

Thorne, who ran an engineering business, stored nine stolen V8 engines at his workshop and helped to move them onto a truck.
 

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...........He jailed Walton for six years, but said he would grant him a relatively low non-parole period of two years and six months in recognition of his contrition and good character........
Now I realize that I don't have all the information, but it seems to me that a person of "good character" does not get involved in a theft scheme.

And about that "contrition", I'm sure he is sorry.....sorry he got caught. Would he have been as sorry if he had not gotten caught?
 

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To be fair, some people don't know how wrong what they are doing is until someone points it out to them. Probably puts him at the shallow end of the gene pool, but he may have genuinely not understood the ramifications of his actions.

I've watched 'Gone in 60 seconds' - maybe he was doing it to pay his brother's debt back....;)
 
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Should have done it "one piece at a time" :)
Which is how they did it in the "old" days - according to my father-in-law, now sadly passed away.

Back in those days, when we wanted good tyres cheap, we'd talk to Goodyear workers in the pub who'd ensure that lettering was moulded upside down which we could then buy as cosmetic rejects!
 

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Now I realize that I don't have all the information, but it seems to me that a person of "good character" does not get involved in a theft scheme.

And about that "contrition", I'm sure he is sorry.....sorry he got caught. Would he have been as sorry if he had not gotten caught?
If you want to take a narrow view I am sure that is true.

However criminal justice is charged with being a management tool of society, and we need to manage those who fail to comply with our laws in the most effective way. I don't think it is effective for people who say they are sorry when caught and who act contrite, and for whom a proper check of their life and behavior to that point shows them as an OK bloke, to be treated the same as the guy with a long history of getting drunk and beating his wife and who tells the police and judge to go get ****ed.

I am thinking the contrite fellow might respond to rehabilitation a little better than the determined sociopath. So I would husband my limited criminal justice budget and spend it more on detaining the guy who figuratively and literally gives justice the finger, than on wasting years of costly jail time on the guy more likely to have learned his lesson...



;)
 

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By "good character" the judge meant that the defendant had refered to him as "sir" (or your honor, or your majesty, or you handsome devil you, etc). See? There's a good boy!
 

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By "good character" the judge meant that the defendant had refered to him as "sir" (or your honor, or your majesty, or you handsome devil you, etc). See? There's a good boy!
Did you just make that **** up?

In Australia we are serious about criminal justice and we have strict legislative guidelines for what constitutes 'good character' and 'contrition', which the judge must follow based on a pre-sentencing investigation and actual evidence of good character and evidence of contrition. Saying you are contrite or have good character is worth zip unless evidence proves it.





;)
 

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yes you are correct monaro but thing that always gets my dander up is when someone pleads not guilty and the judge finds them guilty and then gives them a harsher sentence because they were not contrite! They did plead not guilty so why should they have any contrition.
 

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If you want to take a narrow view I am sure that is true.

However criminal justice is charged with being a management tool of society, and we need to manage those who fail to comply with our laws in the most effective way. I don't think it is effective for people who say they are sorry when caught and who act contrite, and for whom a proper check of their life and behavior to that point shows them as an OK bloke, to be treated the same as the guy with a long history of getting drunk and beating his wife and who tells the police and judge to go get ****ed.

I am thinking the contrite fellow might respond to rehabilitation a little better than the determined sociopath. So I would husband my limited criminal justice budget and spend it more on detaining the guy who figuratively and literally gives justice the finger, than on wasting years of costly jail time on the guy more likely to have learned his lesson...



;)
The biggest problem I have with this sentence is.....people perceive theft from a Corporation and theft from individuals as two separate issues....if this guy had stolen engines out of your car I doubt you would be so lenient....its a progressive narrative that big Corporations are bad so theft against their property either intellectually or goods is some how just some harmless act......
 

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The biggest problem I have with this sentence is.....people perceive theft from a Corporation and theft from individuals as two separate issues....if this guy had stolen engines out of your car I doubt you would be so lenient....its a progressive narrative that big Corporations are bad so theft against their property either intellectually or goods is some how just some harmless act......
Or maybe the guy with a long history of getting drunk and beating his wife and who tells the police and judge to go get ****ed is of better character than the corporation.
 

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yes you are correct monaro but thing that always gets my dander up is when someone pleads not guilty and the judge finds them guilty and then gives them a harsher sentence because they were not contrite! They did plead not guilty so why should they have any contrition.
Actually the person found guilty after a not guilty plea is not getting a harsher sentence, they are getting the correct sentence according to the sentencing guidelines.

The person who pleads guilty gets a lesser sentence under the heading of 'contrition' but in fact the lighter sentence is not based on a moral premise but an economic one. The lighter sentence is indeed in exchange for not making the state, victims, police and witnesses suffer the stress, time and the cost of a trial.

It's the oldest quid pro quo going. You make it easier on us, we make it easier on you.

You don't make it easier on us, you get the standard sentence....




;)
 

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Actually the person found guilty after a not guilty plea is not getting a harsher sentence, they are getting the correct sentence according to the sentencing guidelines.

The person who pleads guilty gets a lesser sentence under the heading of 'contrition' but in fact the lighter sentence is not based on a moral premise but an economic one. The lighter sentence is indeed in exchange for not making the state, victims, police and witnesses suffer the stress, time and the cost of a trial.

It's the oldest quid pro quo going. You make it easier on us, we make it easier on you.

You don't make it easier on us, you get the standard sentence....




;)
It's also a signal that the offender accepts they've done wrong and might have a chance of rehabilitation.
 

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The biggest problem I have with this sentence is.....people perceive theft from a Corporation and theft from individuals as two separate issues....if this guy had stolen engines out of your car I doubt you would be so lenient....its a progressive narrative that big Corporations are bad so theft against their property either intellectually or goods is some how just some harmless act......
In Australia we don't believe in warehousing criminals like in America, so 6 years with a 2.5 year non-parole period is quite stiff for a non-violent offence of theft.

And by the way, under sentencing guidelines the law actually says that a person stealing from a corporation like GM should get a lighter sentence than if they stole from an individual person.

Sentencing guidelines must include the impact of the crime on the victim. If you steal the engine from a little old lady's Camry you leave her with no transport and a load of distress and the anxiety that especially old and vulnerable people feel after being robbed. Sometimes they become too scared to go out.

When you steal several dozen engines by deception from GM (probably less than GM mistakenly sends to landfills each year) and nobody even knows they are gone and each shareholder loses what? - a millionth of a cent per share (although with the insurance refund shareholders probably make more profit than had the engines not been stolen) - how is that impact morally equivalent to impact on the little old lady?

So sentencing guidelines make it the law that harsher sentences go to crimes victimizing real people and not so much those fake people called corporations. I don't think I have ever seen a corporation cry or be afraid to go down to the shops...

So you can forget progressive/conservative crap, reality and the law says real people are harmed more....




;)
 

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Actually the person found guilty after a not guilty plea is not getting a harsher sentence, they are getting the correct sentence according to the sentencing guidelines.

The person who pleads guilty gets a lesser sentence under the heading of 'contrition' but in fact the lighter sentence is not based on a moral premise but an economic one. The lighter sentence is indeed in exchange for not making the state, victims, police and witnesses suffer the stress, time and the cost of a trial.

It's the oldest quid pro quo going. You make it easier on us, we make it easier on you.

You don't make it easier on us, you get the standard sentence....




;)
That may be so but why do judges tell that to a person who says they are not guilty and they still stick to that. It is meaningless to them as they still maintain their innocence. They are empty words.
 
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