[JoeT]

Epica Diesel Imminent

Mike Sinclair
4 June 2008
www.carpoint.com.au

Holden will launch a turbodiesel Epica... And soon

Holden will add a turbodiesel variant to its Epica range -- and it will do so soon. While the manufacturer's corporate communications staff will admit little other than the existence of the new model, advertising creative briefs circulated for the car are more enlightening.

To feature a version of the same 2.0-litre common-rail direct-injected four-cylinder that powers the Captiva Turbodiesel, the Epica VCDi is expected to officially debut in July.

Already on sale in key markets in Europe wearing the Chevrolet badge, the VCDi boasts power and torque outputs of 110kW and 320Nm respectively. This matches the Captiva’s powerplant and is well up -- in real world terms -- on the 2.5-litre petrol six-cylinder Epica's rather anemic 115kW/237Nm output.

Unlike its Euro equivalent, it's understood, Holden's Epica will be available with a five-speed automatic gearbox.

Click here to continue article

 

[Baz]

With Diesel prices soaring faster than petrol i don't really see this being a success. Get the Opel Insignia over here or drop a 4 cylinder in the Epica. Really the Epica needs to be phased out asap. It's only costing Holden money at this point in time.

 

[TKR]

Really the Epica needs to be phased out asap. It's only costing Holden money at this point in time.

You know this to be a fact how exactly?
From talking to a local Holden salesperson, the only problen in NZ is lack of stock, especially for the new 6 speed auto version. Maybe Holden Australia have the same problem?

Oh and guess how many issues they are having with the car - nothing of significance which is more than can be said for the last (ZC) Vectra.

 

[Ssom]

I highly doubt that lack of supply is behind them selling only 43 Epicas in Australia last month, that's a "Why bother?" kind of figure.


Seems that Korea isn't exactly an efficient place to source from if Holden NZ could only secure 450 Epicas last year, while Ford can source the 3 or 4 times the amount of Mondeos from Belgium before reaching supply difficulties. Let me guess, the reason Barina sales were half that of Fiesta sales in NZ last year (742 Fiestas, 381 Barinas) and only a smidgen more than the hellishly expensive (And internationally in demand) Peugeot 207 (302 sales) were also "Suppy difficulties" and don't even get me started on the Viva losing 1000 sales from it's 1500-odd in 2006.

Face it, the Epica has been a dud seller, people who want a Camry will buy a Camry.

 

[rsinsel]

With Diesel prices soaring faster than petrol i don't really see this being a success. Get the Opel Insignia over here or drop a 4 cylinder in the Epica. Really the Epica needs to be phased out asap. It's only costing Holden money at this point in time.

I suppose it may be the mileage increase that the diesel gets.

 

[mikmak]

My local area must be the only dealer shifting them then. I see almost as many Epicas daily than I do Camrys. Seriously! Whilst I agree that the I6 is deviously underpowered (no matter what the ad says), putting a 4-cyl seems like a pretty expensive exercise so late in the piece.

Also, as I have said before about the earlier supposed Mondeo supply problems, which appear to be getting better; if Holden and Daewoo can't get their **** together logistically, they have no one to blame but themselves.


I would be interested to find out how they are selling in their DM and immediate region. I would hope that local sales are astronomically good if we are getting bugger all.

 

[Rick_VT]

Seems like Holdens big gamble on the Korean product is really not paying of, but what choice did they have, the Euro Barina and old Vectra were just way to expensive, at least these Korean cars are selling at a profit, they seriously need to get the new versions but will anyone care even if they are great since people seemed tobe turned of on the ones they have now.

Time to ditch the inline motors to, there just way to underpowered, i reckon a better choice would be the 2.2Ltr 4 cylinder and the 2.8 V6 with the new diesel to, might help sales but until they get a heavily updated car this will still sell poorly

 

[Baz]

All I'm saying is the Epica is barely moving off the lots. 43 sales in a month isn't good from a car which is supposed to go up against the mondeo, camry etc.

 

[BBDOS CV8]

Person I know with the CDXi Epica is still perfectly happy with it - averaging <9l/100km in light urban driving. Nothing's broken, fallen off and it hasn't been back to the dealers since the 1,000km service as of last weekend and she's had it more than six months.

The diesel Epica will get 15-20% better economy than the petrol version and fuel is a little over 10% dearer. So you'll still save 5-10% on filling. More than the saving on running a Camry over a Commodore. And if the Captiva is any guide the oiler will be a $1000 option.

Looks like a slam dunk to me, if they're selling more Mondeo diesels than petrol, at an $8K premium over the cheapest petrol version. And the diesel Mondeo is reportedly not much more economical - it just goes better than the portly benzole model.

As the Epcia is already a 4-star ANCAP car, the next version which is sold with ESC elsewhere should take it to 4.5 stars. That deals with the other major deficiency compared to the low-end class competition.

 

[derrado]

If a diesel were released a while ago, Holden might have had an advantage. But this segment has already seen/sees currently diesel versions of the Mazda6, Mondeo, Jetta and Sonata.

It may perk up sales a little bit, though, but I wouldn't expect a huge shift. Captiva sales picked up with the diesel but that's a crossover.

 

[BBDOS CV8]

This is true - I haven't read any tests of the diesel Sonata, but petrol models sells in a relative trickle anyhow. The others all have a big option price for the oiler, that means it takes years to recoup - like the Astra diesel. People are still buying a high proportion of Mondeo diesels according to Ford.

There's not really anything 'wrong' with the Epica in the first place: it's a decent drive, comfortable and compares very nicely with others in the market for equipment and more than competitive on price.

 

[Ssom]

One area I suppose the new Epica diesel could do well is the Taxi market.


Wellington Combined Taxis, for example (A 500-strong fleet) have recently bought out a policy that any replacement vehicles in their fleet must be either Hybrid, Diesel or LPG powered, this means it's goodbye Aurion and Maxima (Former darlings of this particular company) and hello LPG Falcadores, Diesel Sonatas/Octavias/Mondeos and of course the Prius. You can already see a lot of Diesel Sonatas on the fleet.


I wouldn't be surprised if most cab companies in Australia/NZ follow this route in the next 5 years. Image killer yes, but then the Epica never really had much of one to begin with.

 

[paul8488]

You guys have some real faith in the Epica! When the Mondeo was selling at around 200 units a month at first everyone was slamming it... and now we're defending 43 units of Epica in one month?!? Yikes!

Again, I really like the Epica, but I just don't see how anyone can stick up for the poor car in Australia. Glad Holden has fans like you! You all need to go out and buy an Epica this month! Lets get it up over 50 units in June!

 

[Ssom]

There's not really anything 'wrong' with the Epica in the first place: it's a decent drive, comfortable and compares very nicely with others in the market for equipment and more than competitive on price.

Problem is that it doesn't matter if there isn't anything wrong with a car in this segment, as there are plenty of cars (Mondeo, Mazda6, Legacy, Accord Euro) that have a lot 'right' with them for a small premium. The Camry being the exception, but it's trading on its name, local manufacture and the fact it gained a foothold back when mid-sizers were mostly crap.

 

[BBDOS CV8]

You guys have some real faith in the Epica! When the Mondeo was selling at around 200 units a month at first everyone was slamming it... and now we're defending 43 units of Epica in one month?!? Yikes!

Again, I really like the Epica, but I just don't see how anyone can stick up for the poor car in Australia. Glad Holden has fans like you! You all need to go out and buy an Epica this month! Lets get it up over 50 units in June!

Mondeos' cracked 500 twice IIRC. Not including the first month when it was limited supply it's basically probably averaged at 300-350 a month. Currently it's selling 40% diesel - Ford initially believed it would be 20%.We'll see in a month or two if demand is sustained past the end of the current sale.

Which puts it lineball saleswise with the Epica, which until this month sold in the 3-400 range on average. I think Epica sold 600+ one month but that was probably a large fleet order. Mazda 6s usually sell about 500/month. The Kia/Hyundai twins sell about 500/month.

I don't mind people not liking the Epica, but some are just continually going overboard and trotting out the same old Korean crap lines which really don't apply. It isn't great - but it's not as terrible as painted. it is mediocre in many respects but this is a case of 'feel the width - don't mind the quality' when considering the price vs content. And there is nothing better right here, right now to sell for Holden - what do they do, just give up the segment? If they sell 3,000 annually and make $2,500 a car whcih is probably conservative that's $7.5m of business that didn't go to competitors.

If the dollar keeps growing against the Euro maybe there's a chance for the Insignia - if Opel don't muff it.

 

[derrado]

The reason guys like me rail against the Epica isn't because it's a GM-DAT development - I like the Captiva, and appreciate the Viva's role as a budget small car - but the fact that GM in its own stable has better mid-sizers (G6, Malibu, Aura, Insignia), and Ford can afford to bring over its class-leading Mondeo, and Mazda's excellent 6 is second-best-selling in the class. And, on a lesser note, it shows that Holden perhaps isn't that serious about the mid-size market for whatever reason (worrying about Commodore sales being encroached on, perhaps).

It's a very, very average car. And in this year, and in this market, that's not good.

 

[mikmak]

Still need to be patient IMO. Viva replacement isn't far. In the mean time Epica plods along. 43 is a crap turn out but who knows the true cause.....


....now is the time for any of you cruising GM/Holden 'guests' to sign up and ante up!

 

[Slick_Holden]

I don't think Aussies have fully come to embrace Diesel just yet. I'm a past diesel hatter myself, Reformed.
This happens when driving a BT-50 out dragging a VTII Berlina Gen3 in 2nd gear.
And only using 7l/100.

The world knows now that we are turning to more fuel econemy diesel motors, And the prices are growing with interest.

 

[BBDOS CV8]

The reason guys like me rail against the Epica isn't because it's a GM-DAT development - I like the Captiva, and appreciate the Viva's role as a budget small car - but the fact that GM in its own stable has better mid-sizers (G6, Malibu, Aura, Insignia), and Ford can afford to bring over its class-leading Mondeo, and Mazda's excellent 6 is second-best-selling in the class. And, on a lesser note, it shows that Holden perhaps isn't that serious about the mid-size market for whatever reason (worrying about Commodore sales being encroached on, perhaps).

It's a very, very average car. And in this year, and in this market, that's not good.

If the Mondeo is class-leading now that the new Mazda 6 is here it's still too dear. Ford sold 500 Mondeos in May to a market looking for midsize 4s and with discounts. Mazda sold 1000 6's, Toyota sold $hitloads of Camrys. Tells you pretty much everything. Will Mondeo sales wilter when the deals go?

I've driven a G6, a 3.5V6 GT. 1980's Commodore inside (hard pebbled plastics) and a 1980's 2.2 Camry for driving and go - the smaller one. Smaller than it looks - not even as big as Epica. It's hard to imagine a car with wallowy suspension that also crashes over every minor pimple in the road. Well the G6 is it.

1.8 Astra auto would clobber it - imagine a EJ Holden with Hydramatic 3-speed that goes change -slip,rev,rev,rev,slip -next gear and sounds like an Electrolux on half-speed when floored That's G6. The seat and driving position is wrong. IMO Epica would kill it in a comparo. Epica may be 1990s but it's still better. G6 wasn't any more economical than a 3800 VY auto wagon. At least it didn't torque steer, but then, it didn't have any torque. I'd honestly rather have driven a Corolla.

The Aura is an Americanised Vectra - failed here already. Too expensive for what it is and esp once it got here.
The Malibu is probably nice, but a Commodore sized car, isn't exported, isn't RHD. Probably too dear landed in Oz. We'd have to wait for GM to make it RHD - that's if they remember or even bother for 5 or 6,000 sales a year.
Insignia is not even released in Europe. Could be great, could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory like the AH Astra after the TS. If it's a hit we won't see it here anytime soon - the TS Astra took nearly 4 years after it was intro'd to Europe as the Mark V or Astra G, IIRC.

So for the next period, 6-18 months Epica is it. Like I said, Holden's option is not sell anything and fall further behind, or sell a car which makes them some money. In it's current form it's a placeholder but it is actually refined if unexciting and it is selling. The Viva is far more in need of replacement being cheap but also fairly crude.

It's not like the Epica is without virtue. It is very economical to run - probably the most economical petrol midsize car, in town or on trips. My contact who owns one says it's superior to the 2 Magnas she had previously on trips for comfort, the seats are good, it's very quiet and very smooth, both drivetrain and ride-wise. She rates the around-town steering and manouverability as excellent and better again than the Magnas. She's a 50+ year old woman and not performance-minded so for ordinary drivers it should be sufficient.

It's Japanese-reliable, Japanese-build quality (I've seen it close up, better than anything domestic including Camrys and Aurions with very tight gaps and nothing misfitted, good paint) and very well equipped. And it's a bargain price. It even scores 4 stars for ANCAP, which is the highest you can get without stability control so it's safer than an early noughties Commy or Falcon, esp with six airbags.

 

[derrado]

I don't think the Mondeo is class-leading now that the new Mazda 6 is here. Ford sold 500 Mondeos in May to a market looking for midsizers. Mazda sold 1000 6's, Toyota sold $hitloads of Camrys. Tells you pretty much everything. And the Mondeo is selling because of hefty discounts at present. Like the Aurion, when they go, so possibly will the sales.

I think the Mondeo and Mazda6 are probably equal at the top of the class. Nothing but rave reviews for either. The comparison test in this month's Wheels placed the 6 1st and the Mondeo 3rd, but that's because they tested the base-model Mondeo and their only criticisms were about the trim level. Most people buy the Zetec anyway, so the criticisms were moot. They said the Mondeo was incredibly roomy, excellent quality and had great dynamics. That it's not winning as many sales as the 6 and Camry says more about the lack of name recognition and advertising than anything else. Considering how little advertising I've seen for the Mondeo, 500 is a very respectable number. The Camry and 6 have been the class barnstormers in sales for years now.

The mid-size market is massive. You've got Mondeo, Epica, Camry, 6, Octavia, Liberty, Sebring, Avenger, Accord, Accord Euro, Sonata, Magentis, Jetta.... It's a big class. However, the scope of the class makes the Mondeo (virtually a new nameplate) and its 500 sales look good, and the Epica and its abysmal 43 sales look very, very bad.

I've driven a G6, a 3.5V6 GT - it's crap. Australians would find it on par with a 1980's Commodore inside (hard pebbled plastics) and a 1980's Camry for dynamics. Smaller than it looks - not even as big as Epica. It's hard to imagine a car with wallowy suspension that also crashes over every minor pimple in the road. Well the G6 is it. My missus TS 1.8 Astra auto would clobber it for go, and probably has a more usable interior not to mention aeons ahead in comfort and ergonomics. The seating position is just all wrong and the steering is not even reach adjustable. I think the Epica would kill it in a comparo. It wasn't even very economical, only on a par with a 3800 VY auto wagon.

All cars that come here have a degree of "Australianisation". They do outback testing, they pick a firmer suspension setting, they make other detail changes. I bet those problems you listed, other than fuel efficiency (which is different for the 2.4, 3.6 and 3.9) and interior quality, could be rectified in the standard Australianisation process. If Holden were intent on bringing over the G6, I'm sure they'd cherry-pick what they'd want; I'd see a range of 2.4 and 3.5, with perhaps the GTP suspension settings, and the option of a manual transmission.

There has been one prevailing praise in every G6 review I've read, and that is its ride. It's been praised as being very smooth and compliant, even over rough surfaces. There'd been the odd criticism or two about numb electric steering (which is only in the 2.4 and 3.5, I believe) but the ride has never been criticised. Overall, the G6 is seen as being quite good dynamically, with a sporty feel and a compliant suspension.

The G6 has a long wheelbase, and I've heard in plenty of reviews that it is commodious enough. Seating position is something subjective.

A Commodore VY has 152kw; the G6 3.5 has 150kw. Both are automatics. I would think lineball fuel efficiency would be an expectation.

The G6 isn't as good as its platform-mates, but I would expect it (on a fairly new platform that hosts two NACOTYs and a Saab) to perform a lot better than an Epica.

The Aura is an Americanised Vectra - failed here already. Too expensive for what it is.
The Malibu is probably nice, but a Commodore sized car, isn't exported anywhere, isn't RHD so it's moot. It would, I think, be too dear landed in Oz. We'd have to wait for next gen for GM to make it RHD - that's if they remember.
So for the next period, 6-18 months Epica is it.

The Aura probably has more in common with Malibu/G6 than with Vectra, despite its styling. I would think it'd be cheaper to import an Aura from the US than it would be to import an Insignia from Europe. Now that I think about it, the Aura could do quite well here. It would fit in with the rest of the range, and even though it's being replaced soon it is still new and fresh enough. It's also not too big, and comes with a choice of engines.

I think the Aura would make more sense than the Malibu because the Aura's design language fits in better with Holden. The current Malibu is a damn good car, but so is the Aura (just less flashy). Also, I get the feeling the Malibu would seem a lot bigger in person than an Aura, which could potentially cause trouble for the Commodore.

If they'd used the same strategy for the Epica as they did with the Astra & Viva, by making it the budget mid-sizer then adding a more expensive mid-sizer, the situation would be a little bit better.