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Teslas are PRICED as a luxury vehicle; however, even Tesla states that it's not a "luxury brand."
There are differences here, all of which have been explained ad nauseam on this site... and way too many people continue to fail to understand it.
What's even more murky is that 3s and Ys have a lot of "luxury" features but aren't luxury.
 
I have a different way of defining what a luxury car is, it is not the traditional definition and I think where Tesla falls. I see a luxury car as anything more than basic transportation, in some way having excess or something to get people to spend more. For some, it is HP - I call a Camaro a luxury car as it is a toy and far beyond what anyone needs to get from point A to B. I see a certain luxury in springing for tech that no one really has - Tesla's batteries and clean interiors. As we've seen, many of these people are coming from basic transportation - Camry's, etc. I know I'm about to get attacked because it isn't a normal definition of luxury, but, to me it doesn't matter - Tesla has something that gets people to part with more money than they'd otherwise do on an ICE car - a luxury to get something they want.

I myself find any Tesla to be more compelling than anything Mercedes offers.
 
I have a different way of defining what a luxury car is, it is not the traditional definition and I think where Tesla falls. I see a luxury car as anything more than basic transportation, in some way having excess or something to get people to spend more. For some, it is HP - I call a Camaro a luxury car as it is a toy and far beyond what anyone needs to get from point A to B. I see a certain luxury in springing for tech that no one really has - Tesla's batteries and clean interiors. As we've seen, many of these people are coming from basic transportation - Camry's, etc. I know I'm about to get attacked because it isn't a normal definition of luxury, but, to me it doesn't matter - Tesla has something that gets people to part with more money than they'd otherwise do on an ICE car - a luxury to get something they want.

I myself find any Tesla to be more compelling than anything Mercedes offeres.
My XT5 Platinum was decked out -- gorgeous interior, plush, comfortable, hit all the right notes for me. GM hit a home run with that interior. Really.

Now I drive a Model 3. Stark opposite - simplistic interior, not nearly as plush, wood grain isn't nearly as nice, heck, my dashboard isn't even covered in alcantara leather.

But I'd drive the Model 3 30 out of 10 times.

Tesla's real luxury? That drivetrain. Holy %%%% is that drivetrain amazing.

Really curious to see what the Lyriq drives like. Once you drive electric, there's no going back ... that smooth, easy torque at any time is just wild.
 
My XT5 Platinum was decked out -- gorgeous interior, plush, comfortable, hit all the right notes for me. GM hit a home run with that interior. Really.

Now I drive a Model 3. Stark opposite - simplistic interior, not nearly as plush, wood grain isn't nearly as nice, heck, my dashboard isn't even covered in alcantara leather.

But I'd drive the Model 3 30 out of 10 times.

Tesla's real luxury? That drivetrain. Holy %%%% is that drivetrain amazing.

Really curious to see what the Lyriq drives like. Once you drive electric, there's no going back ... that smooth, easy torque at any time is just wild.
Exactly my point!

Mercedes is the pinnacle of luxury if that is your definition of luxury, it isn't mine - it doesn't appeal to me. Everyone has their own opinion of what tickles their fancy and make them willing to part with their money. Tesla does that for many people. That might change as electrics become mainstream, but as of today, it works for Tesla.
 
I have a different way of defining what a luxury car is, it is not the traditional definition and I think where Tesla falls. I see a luxury car as anything more than basic transportation, in some way having excess or something to get people to spend more. For some, it is HP - I call a Camaro a luxury car as it is a toy and far beyond what anyone needs to get from point A to B. I see a certain luxury in springing for tech that no one really has - Tesla's batteries and clean interiors. As we've seen, many of these people are coming from basic transportation - Camry's, etc. I know I'm about to get attacked because it isn't a normal definition of luxury, but, to me it doesn't matter - Tesla has something that gets people to part with more money than they'd otherwise do on an ICE car - a luxury to get something they want.

I myself find any Tesla to be more compelling than anything Mercedes offers.

That's not "different."
That's the fundamental definition of a "luxury car." AGAIN... That doesn't make it a "luxury brand" or "luxury branded car."

"Anything more than basic transportation." I think the $ amount tied to this is "$40,000." (Though it may be $35,000, I'm not entirely sure.)
This is why I call these cars that aren't "luxury branded" as "premium cars." They're obviously not your typical econoboxes.

This is why I don't view a fully loaded Chevy Tahoe to be comparable to a Cadillac Escalade, even though they're virtually the same car. Both as "luxury cars." One is luxury branded. One is not. A luxury customer will buy the luxury branded car. And people here don't understand that difference. "Why pay $15,000 more for essentially the same car?" Well... as I've always said, "if you have to ask, you don't get it."

The media doesn't always understand this either, as the Tesla Model S and Lucid Air comparisons start filtering out. The real comparison is Lucid Air and Mercedes EQS. Tesla is a tangential competitor to the Lucid. Tesla is also a closer competitor to Lucid's technology.
 
That's not "different."
That's the fundamental definition of a "luxury car." AGAIN... That doesn't make it a "luxury brand" or "luxury branded car."

"Anything more than basic transportation." I think the $ amount tied to this is "$40,000." (Though it may be $35,000, I'm not entirely sure.)
This is why I call these cars that aren't "luxury branded" as "premium cars." They're obviously not your typical econoboxes.

This is why I don't view a fully loaded Chevy Tahoe to be comparable to a Cadillac Escalade, even though they're virtually the same car. Both as "luxury cars." One is luxury branded. One is not. A luxury customer will buy the luxury branded car. And people here don't understand that difference. "Why pay $15,000 more for essentially the same car?" Well... as I've always said, "if you have to ask, you don't get it."

The media doesn't always understand this either, as the Tesla Model S and Lucid Air comparisons start filtering out. The real comparison is Lucid Air and Mercedes EQS. Tesla is a tangential competitor to the Lucid. Tesla is also a closer competitor to Lucid's technology.
IMO, the luxury vehicle market has always had different segments. For example, Ferrari, Porsche etc. used to have fairly basic interiors but were clearly luxury goods and luxury brands of a sort. They have adopted more traditional luxury features now (in part in response to traditional luxury brands starting to catch up in performance, esp. via AMG/M/S/V/F variants), but they still retain a separate and more aspirational identity, often allowing them to be priced at a premium to similar products from "mere" mainstream luxury brands.

Technology-centric vehicles are becoming another segment within the luxury vehicle spectrum. These are defined primarily by a software-driven (no pun intended) feature set and often happen to be EVs. Tesla is the most obvious example but Lucid, Rivian etc. too. It's clearly a part of their brand image as well, so these aren't just standalone "luxury" goods. As with performance brands, I expect these brands to adopt more mainstream luxury features over time (some are doing that already, a la Lucid), esp. as mainstream brands add more of the same technology too. Still, I expect these brands to maintain a separate identity from mainstream luxury brands, at least for the foreseeable future.
 
IMO, the luxury vehicle market has always had different segments. For example, Ferrari, Porsche etc. used to have fairly basic interiors but were clearly luxury goods and luxury brands of a sort. They have adopted more traditional luxury features now (in part in response to traditional luxury brands starting to catch up in performance, esp. via AMG/M/S/V/F variants), but they still retain a separate and more aspirational identity, often allowing them to be priced at a premium to similar products from "mere" mainstream luxury brands.
Darnit!!!!! You suck. LOL
I had an entire paragraph on "Porsche being the special case of sorts." And I deleted it. And here you go bringing Porsche up.
And yes. They have adopted a differing stance and positioning themselves as a luxury brand. They're special in that they remain focused on remaining a boutique brand as well, which also gives them an air of exclusivity. Which also aids in their luxury aspirations.


Technology-centric vehicles are becoming another segment within the luxury vehicle spectrum. These are defined primarily by a software-driven (no pun intended) feature set and often happen to be EVs. Tesla is the most obvious example but Lucid, Rivian etc. too. It's clearly a part of their brand image as well, so these aren't just standalone "luxury" goods. As with performance brands, I expect these brands to adopt more mainstream luxury features over time (some are doing that already, a la Lucid), esp. as mainstream brands add more of the same technology too. Still, I expect these brands to maintain a separate identity from mainstream luxury brands, at least for the foreseeable future.
Well, not really "becoming" per se. It has always been a differentiator. Cadillac always seemed to have the coolest bells and whistles until around the mid-80's when the Germans started flipping the script. And they kept that technology distinction thru 2010's when Tesla started flipping the script on the Germans.
I would still argue that having technology alone doesn't make you a luxury brand. It will be technology + service + features + intangibles and a curation of image that gives you the luxury brand.

Only Lucid is distinctly focused on the luxury market. So, in my eyes, their direct competition is Mercedes, BMW, and Audi. Tesla is tangential.... unless Tesla pulls a Porsche. (I don't think they should, but that's an argument for another thread.)
 
Those are both PHEVs. As I've said in other threads, PHEVs have all the downsides of ICE and EV combined. I'm talking about EVs (and Tesla, which we are discussing here, has never made PHEVs so your two data points are utterly irrelevant).
So EV's don't depreciate?

No, you don't get it but, if you say you do, we'll leave it at that ;)
Explain, or don't you get it either?


Teslas are PRICED as a luxury vehicle; however, even Tesla states that it's not a "luxury brand."
There are differences here, all of which have been explained ad nauseam on this site... and way too many people continue to fail to understand it.
Tesla's are higher-priced because they have an expensive battery, right?

What would a $42K M3 cost if it had a run of the mill, 2.0L Turbo?

I have a different way of defining what a luxury car is, it is not the traditional definition and I think where Tesla falls. I see a luxury car as anything more than basic transportation, in some way having excess or something to get people to spend more. For some, it is HP - I call a Camaro a luxury car as it is a toy and far beyond what anyone needs to get from point A to B. I see a certain luxury in springing for tech that no one really has - Tesla's batteries and clean interiors. As we've seen, many of these people are coming from basic transportation - Camry's, etc. I know I'm about to get attacked because it isn't a normal definition of luxury, but, to me it doesn't matter - Tesla has something that gets people to part with more money than they'd otherwise do on an ICE car - a luxury to get something they want.

I myself find any Tesla to be more compelling than anything Mercedes offers.
I think we've always agreed, the "Dealership Experience" was part of this too.


My XT5 Platinum was decked out -- gorgeous interior, plush, comfortable, hit all the right notes for me. GM hit a home run with that interior. Really.

Now I drive a Model 3. Stark opposite - simplistic interior, not nearly as plush, wood grain isn't nearly as nice, heck, my dashboard isn't even covered in alcantara leather.

But I'd drive the Model 3 30 out of 10 times.

Tesla's real luxury? That drivetrain. Holy %%%% is that drivetrain amazing.

Really curious to see what the Lyriq drives like. Once you drive electric, there's no going back ... that smooth, easy torque at any time is just wild.
So it's more like a Malibu with a EV Powertrain?
 
Tesla's are higher-priced because they have an expensive battery, right?
Tesla's pricing is based on the technology. Sure. And as battery technology costs decline over time, due to efficiencies in manufacturing and scale, one would expect the price to decline or maintain, based on any inflationary or other economic or competitive market pressure.
That still doesn't make Tesla a luxury brand. It just makes it an expensive car.

What would a $42K M3 cost if it had a run of the mill, NA 3.6 V6?
One would hope that if Tesla had to make an ICE for whatever reason, it wouldn't use that godforsaken 3.6 V6.
 
Tesla's pricing is based on the technology. Sure. And as battery technology costs decline over time, due to efficiencies in manufacturing and scale, one would expect the price to decline or maintain, based on any inflationary or other economic or competitive market pressure.

That still doesn't make Tesla a luxury brand. It just makes it an expensive car.

One would hope that if Tesla had to make an ICE for whatever reason, it wouldn't use that godforsaken 3.6 V6.
OK, I can agree with that, and ironically when I originally wrote that, I had put 3.6L NA V6, but as an "entry powertrain" I figured the 2.0L Turbo was a better match, you can't even get the 3.6L NA V6 in the Malibu, and also 'basically' the base engine in the Blazer.
 
OK, I can agree with that, and ironically when I originally wrote that, I had put 3.6L NA V6, but as an "entry powertrain" I figured the 2.0L Turbo was a better match, you can't even get the 3.6L NA V6 in the Malibu, and also 'basically' the base engine in the Blazer.
LOL. You must have edited your comment as I hit reply.

If Tesla had an ICE, I would expect at minimum a 2.0L Turbo. Or a PHEV with a 2.0L at 400HP.
 
That's not "different."
That's the fundamental definition of a "luxury car." AGAIN... That doesn't make it a "luxury brand" or "luxury branded car."

"Anything more than basic transportation." I think the $ amount tied to this is "$40,000." (Though it may be $35,000, I'm not entirely sure.)
This is why I call these cars that aren't "luxury branded" as "premium cars." They're obviously not your typical econoboxes.

This is why I don't view a fully loaded Chevy Tahoe to be comparable to a Cadillac Escalade, even though they're virtually the same car. Both as "luxury cars." One is luxury branded. One is not. A luxury customer will buy the luxury branded car. And people here don't understand that difference. "Why pay $15,000 more for essentially the same car?" Well... as I've always said, "if you have to ask, you don't get it."

The media doesn't always understand this either, as the Tesla Model S and Lucid Air comparisons start filtering out. The real comparison is Lucid Air and Mercedes EQS. Tesla is a tangential competitor to the Lucid. Tesla is also a closer competitor to Lucid's technology.
EMH said my response better than I could, so I'll leave it at "ditto" :D
 
I think we've always agreed, the "Dealership Experience" was part of this too.
I think my expectations depends on the brand. My Cadillac experience didn't meet my expectations for a mainstream luxury brand, I'd have pretty high expectations for an experience if I decided to buy a Mercedes. But, for Tesla, I'd be expecting something totally different - something more techy, online based and not have to deal with a dealership - Tesla has successfuly set my expectations to be something different. However, If I had my $120k Model S and it needed servicing I think I'd have a cow if I got put off for two months as I've heard can happen - then they'd fail to meet my expectations.
 
Darnit!!!!! You suck. LOL
I had an entire paragraph on "Porsche being the special case of sorts." And I deleted it. And here you go bringing Porsche up.
And yes. They have adopted a differing stance and positioning themselves as a luxury brand. They're special in that they remain focused on remaining a boutique brand as well, which also gives them an air of exclusivity. Which also aids in their luxury aspirations.
I don't think Porsche is unique. They just happen to be the closest to mainstream luxury among the sportier, more exclusive brands. But the trajectory of their brand evolution, IMO, is similar to Ferrari, Lambo etc., just at a different scale.

Well, not really "becoming" per se. It has always been a differentiator. Cadillac always seemed to have the coolest bells and whistles until around the mid-80's when the Germans started flipping the script. And they kept that technology distinction thru 2010's when Tesla started flipping the script on the Germans.
I would still argue that having technology alone doesn't make you a luxury brand. It will be technology + service + features + intangibles and a curation of image that gives you the luxury brand.

Only Lucid is distinctly focused on the luxury market. So, in my eyes, their direct competition is Mercedes, BMW, and Audi. Tesla is tangential.... unless Tesla pulls a Porsche. (I don't think they should, but that's an argument for another thread.)
Agree technology has always been a component of luxury car brands. But I think the scale of the current shift in technology is large enough that it creates a distinct identity around itself and goes well beyond widgets in the car to the entire purchase and ownership experience.
 
I don't think Porsche is unique. They just happen to be the closest to mainstream luxury among the sportier, more exclusive brands. But the trajectory of their brand evolution, IMO, is similar to Ferrari, Lambo etc., just at a different scale.
Porsche is still boutique. They sell less globally than Land Rover. Neither are exotics, but they’re lower volumes certainly makes them more special in the market.
But they do curate the brand, focus specifically on performance, sport, design, and overall identity.

Agree technology has always been a component of luxury car brands. But I think the scale of the current shift in technology is large enough that it creates a distinct identity around itself and goes well beyond widgets in the car to the entire purchase and ownership experience.
I see Your position here.
Though, I don’t think that’s necessarily insurmountable. But Tesla certainly does have a large lead. And they’re not afraid to pivot and move fast. It does give them an advantage.
 
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