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General Motors’ aspiration to stop selling fuel-burning cars by 2035 could put a big dent in its overall market share if it doesn’t considerably boost sales, some auto industry analysts think.

While electric cars are in vogue, and companies like Tesla command share prices that could make a legacy automaker envious, automotive insiders continue to voice concerns over how ready the world is to fully shift to electric vehicles. Firms that survey car buyers frequently say many still worry about vehicle range and charging times, for example.

 

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Definitely a big gamble from a lot of makes, not just GM. GM could very well become a luxury make, just selling higher priced BEV's, no real entry level.

I can even see Toyota being the favorite in third world countries where electric grids are shaky and BEV doing well in 1st world countries. And maybe in the 1st world certain types of customers will still favor hybrids, but I think most will be fine with BEV.

Huge gamble!
 

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Well, technically Buick is supposed to be the other luxury brand. They really need to up their game over there. I remember Lutz saying Buick is supposed to be American Lexus and Cadillac is American BMW or something to that effect.
 

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Several thoughts regarding BEV’s that seem to remain unanswered;

How will people that live in apartments, condos, housing projects, etc. charge their BEV?

How will the government collect taxes to pay for road building, maintenance and repair - which is now funded primarily through the fuel tax? How will it be done fairly?

What about the fairness issue of using tax credits to fund private purchases of BEV’s?

How will people that have to park their BEV on their street daily, due to lack of a parking space or garage, charge their BEV?

How will people traveling in BEV’s charge their vehicle quickly when on the road? Will mega-charging stations need to be built with hundred of charging positions to accommodate BEV’s traveling? It seems as though land near many expressway and state route interchanges are already utilized, often by fueling stations - that could not accommodate the land needed for hundreds of chargers.

People that commute a long distance to work in a BEV and park in huge parking lots. How will they charge their BEV while working (for the commute home)?

When charging stations are built “on the street”, similar to parking meters in cities, how will BEV owners prevent others from tampering with the charging cord or disconnecting it? How will people prevent any safety hazard such as tripping for pedestrians from occurring with charging cords on the ground? Any potential for a shock-hazard?

People that have one charging station installed in their single or double-vehicle garage, how will they charge two or more vehicles that are owned by members of the houshould (think Mom, Dad, and several teenagers - all with their own BEV vehicle)?

People that must park outside in a parking lot or driveway, how will they charge their BEV with a long cord during severe, inclement weather (even though there is a charging station nearby)?

Will GM dealers be able to diagnose and repair BEV’s, when GM cannot manufacture a BEV (think Bolt) that is prone to catching file while unattended and not charging (and GM cannot figure out how to fix the existing Bolt’s under safety recall)?

Has the ability to recycle the battery pack when no longer functional (or damaged from an accident) be resolved? Who will pay to dispose of a bad battery pack?

Manufacturers are currently designing and building small BEV’s - other than Tesla. The market requires larger vehicles for a variety of reasons. Not everyone can squeeze into a small, four-seater vehicle with limited cargo capability. Will larger BEV’s be developed?

Is the USA’s electric generation and distribution infrastructure ready for the increased electric demand?

I am not opposed to BEV’s - and I have driven and ridden in a Tesla Model X Signature Series. I was fascinated by the vehicle and its capabilities.

I just wonder if the push to BEV’s is a result of companies trying to be politically correct, without having all the associated issues figured out or resolved before the vehicles are pushed out the door?

One bright spot is that the BEV’s will require significantly fewer parts and maintenance, including common maintenance parts (spark plugs, coils, antifreeze, various lubricating oils, exhaust systems, coolant hoses, radiators, oxygen sensors, various engine sensors, etc. - the list is almost endless). This will require fewer workers (think fewer UAW members for the big-3), who will need to find other work. Software development will be huge for the vehicles, and the need for various computer components will increase. This will require better educated workers.

Will the manufacturers pass on the cost savings to the consumer for less labor time to assemble the vehicles and fewer parts needed for the vehicle - or are the manufacturer’s working to keep the vehicle costs artificially high? I think we all know that answer.....
 

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Definitely a big gamble from a lot of makes, not just GM. GM could very well become a luxury make, just selling higher priced BEV's, no real entry level.

I can even see Toyota being the favorite in third world countries where electric grids are shaky and BEV doing well in 1st world countries. And maybe in the 1st world certain types of customers will still favor hybrids, but I think most will be fine with BEV.

Huge gamble!
I saw this report, it acts as if GM will be the only car company that is going to be electric. While the rest of the industry keeps it's ICE numbers.

We all now those ICE numbers will come down for every automotive manufacturer in the up coming years. And the EV number will steadily rise over that same period of time.

The market share will eventually level itself out and the industry will be right back to where it was when ICE was the priority.

These fears are complete nonsense.
 

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I saw this report, it acts as if GM will be the only car company that is going to be electric. While the rest of the industry keeps it's ICE numbers.

We all now those ICE numbers will come down for every automotive manufacturer in the up coming years. And the EV number will steadily rise over that same period of time.

The market share will eventually level itself out and the industry will be right back to where it was when ICE was the priority.

These fears are complete nonsense.
The fear of the unknown.... I tend to think we will be fine, but I have questions I'd like answered definitively about our electric grid, especially when I read a lot of stories today that it is near breaking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The fear of the unknown.... I tend to think we will be fine, but I have questions I'd like answered definitively about our electric grid, especially when I read a lot of stories today that it is near breaking.
This is a big issue for sure.

A lot of power needed to replace millions of barrels of oil. Doesn't come out of thin air.
 

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The fear of the unknown.... I tend to think we will be fine, but I have questions I'd like answered definitively about our electric grid, especially when I read a lot of stories today that it is near breaking.
It's good that the grid is breaking! It will motivate people to repair/upgrade it. You know how people are (lazy) they won't address a issue until they absolutely have to.

The charging stations will come sooner rather than later. Fast charging will be the norm, and people will adjust their lives accordingly.

All the belly aching about spending more time charging a car vs fueling up at a pump is ridiculous in my opinion!

Do people think their lives are so important that they can't invest a few more minutes to charge their cars?

And this is something most people will do once a week, maybe twice a week.

I think people exaggerate the charging situation to make it sound worse then it's going to be.

As for the grid and infrastructure, there's to much money to be made for Gov't and companies not to figure it out. I have seen plans for gas stations to remove a few of the pumps and replace them with charging stations. I assume this will end up being the norm, you don't have to build completely new charging stations.

I do agree that it will be interesting how it all plays out.
 

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It's good that the grid is breaking! It will motivate people to repair/upgrade it. You know how people are (lazy) they won't address a issue until they absolutely have to.

The charging stations will come sooner rather than later. Fast charging will be the norm, and people will adjust their lives accordingly.

All the belly aching about spending more time charging a car vs fueling up at a pump is ridiculous in my opinion!

Do people think their lives are so important that they can't invest a few more minutes to charge their cars?

And this is something most people will do once a week, maybe twice a week.

I think people exaggerate the charging situation to make it sound worse then it's going to be.

As for the grid and infrastructure, there's to much money to be made for Gov't and companies not to figure it out. I have seen plans for gas stations to remove a few of the pumps and replace them with charging stations. I assume this will end up being the norm, you don't have to build completely new charging stations.

I do agree that it will be interesting how it all plays out.
This hand-wringing over GM's adoption of EVs boggles my mind. Every industrialized nation is banning petroleum-powered cars and mandating EVs. If anyone is holding off on EVs for fear that ICEs will maintain their grip on the market simply has not been paying attention. There will be no new ICE vehicles to buy and no place to buy them.
 

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This hand-wringing over GM's adoption of EVs boggles my mind. Every industrialized nation is banning petroleum-powered cars and mandating EVs. If anyone is holding off on EVs for fear that ICEs will maintain their grip on the market simply has not been paying attention. There will be no new ICE vehicles to buy and no place to buy them.
This statement is quite possibly the most intelligent one I've read in awhile.

The number floating around is 80% EV sales by 2030. Where are you people going to be buying the ICE from?
 

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General Motors’ aspiration to stop selling fuel-burning cars by 2035 could put a big dent in its overall market share if it doesn’t considerably boost sales, some auto industry analysts think.

While electric cars are in vogue, and companies like Tesla command share prices that could make a legacy automaker envious, automotive insiders continue to voice concerns over how ready the world is to fully shift to electric vehicles. Firms that survey car buyers frequently say many still worry about vehicle range and charging times, for example.


It is a bigger risk/gamble to stick to ICEv.

A straight up stupid gamble is fuel cell vehicles.
 

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It is a bigger risk/gamble to stick to ICEv.

A straight up stupid gamble is fuel cell vehicles.
Nah, still need to continue research in this area. Fuel cells are still maybe 20 yrs away from being practical and Korea is doubling down in this area. Need to keep up in case they need to change their product mix. Don't want to have to buy tech from other countries/competitors.
 

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It's good that the grid is breaking! It will motivate people to repair/upgrade it. You know how people are (lazy) they won't address a issue until they absolutely have to.

The charging stations will come sooner rather than later. Fast charging will be the norm, and people will adjust their lives accordingly.

All the belly aching about spending more time charging a car vs fueling up at a pump is ridiculous in my opinion!

Do people think their lives are so important that they can't invest a few more minutes to charge their cars?

And this is something most people will do once a week, maybe twice a week.

I think people exaggerate the charging situation to make it sound worse then it's going to be.

As for the grid and infrastructure, there's to much money to be made for Gov't and companies not to figure it out. I have seen plans for gas stations to remove a few of the pumps and replace them with charging stations. I assume this will end up being the norm, you don't have to build completely new charging stations.

I do agree that it will be interesting how it all plays out.
I don't consider the grid breaking a good thing - it's been breaking for a long time and it hasn't motivated anyone to fix it. I don't want to be the one without power for six+ months after "they" realize they pushed it to far and my portion of the grid broke. Or, I don't want to do without some of my favorite consumer products, or a car, because the grid where said stuff is produced went down for an extended time. Or what'll happen if the grid that powers Wall Street and all of their financial transactions goes down for an extended time? How are you going to feel when all of your savings are frozen? I want answers from real experts and a definitive plan how to get there, not "we'll be fine". I'm willing to pay because we need to, but I want to know.

I do believe charging time will come way down, I think many are basing their opinions on what is available today. Yeah, my time isn't gold, but I'd rather be home wasting my time on GMI vs. sitting at a gas station (I don't like using GMI on my iPhone). I have no issue if someone is telling me it'll take a few more minutes to fill up, but an hour wait isn't very exciting to me.
 

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Nah, still need to continue research in this area. Fuel cells are still maybe 20 yrs away from being practical and Korea is doubling down in this area. Need to keep up in case they need to change their product mix. Don't want to have to buy tech from other countries/competitors.
And GM continues to research! I think trucks (18 wheelers), warehouse vehicles, delivery type vehicles (Amazon) will be where hydrogen ends up, but not regular passenger vehicles. To much infrastructure costs needed. Companies like Amazon can afford their own hydrogen stations at their warehouses and a smaller on highway system of hydrogen filling stations can be made to fill trucks.
 

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I don't consider the grid breaking a good thing - it's been breaking for a long time and it hasn't motivated anyone to fix it. I don't want to be the one without power for six+ months after "they" realize they pushed it to far and my portion of the grid broke. Or, I don't want to do without some of my favorite consumer products, or a car, because the grid where said stuff is produced went down for an extended time. Or what'll happen if the grid that powers Wall Street and all of their financial transactions goes down for an extended time? How are you going to feel when all of your savings are frozen? I want answers from real experts and a definitive plan how to get there, not "we'll be fine". I'm willing to pay because we need to, but I want to know.

I do believe charging time will come way down, I think many are basing their opinions on what is available today. Yeah, my time isn't gold, but I'd rather be home wasting my time on GMI vs. sitting at a gas station (I don't like using GMI on my iPhone). I have no issue if someone is telling me it'll take a few more minutes to fill up, but an hour wait isn't very exciting to me.
I understand your concerns and they are valid. Are there going to be hard tough days ahead? Yes, but I believe if we stop fighting the progression of moving forward and helping the process along this process will be more streamlined.

As for Wallstreet they already have backup systems in place. Where I work there are diesel backups just in case.

The Hummer EV I looked at mentioned that a 10 minute charge would produce 100 miles of range.

Is that unexceptable? I don't think so.
 

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The fear of the unknown.... I tend to think we will be fine, but I have questions I'd like answered definitively about our electric grid, especially when I read a lot of stories today that it is near breaking.
You are way off target if you keep insisting this is "fear." More like "concern" for "poorly thought-out pie-in-the-sky projects with other peoples' money and based largely on governments' panic regarding the myth of globaloney warming." So the very basis of this flood to lektrik is based on pure BS propaganda designed to scare people into doing something they might not normally do.
Lektriks WOULD have evolved. Along with various nations' grids. And figuring out WHERE to charge, if you have street parking only. BTW, just how does that work out? Oh don't worry, that will work out just fine.

This hand-wringing over GM's adoption of EVs boggles my mind. Every industrialized nation is banning petroleum-powered cars and mandating EVs. If anyone is holding off on EVs for fear that ICEs will maintain their grip on the market simply has not been paying attention. There will be no new ICE vehicles to buy and no place to buy them.
As many of our mothers used to tell us, "Just because everyone else is doing it does that mean it's right?" Well hell no.

This is a political movement, not an engineering evolution. And when politics--think politicians, who often don't know their arse from their elbow, or much else either, except how to compulsively lie--rules something, well what could possibly go wrong?

No worries! We'll all be fine!
 

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You are way off target if you keep insisting this is "fear." More like "concern" for "poorly thought-out pie-in-the-sky projects with other peoples' money and based largely on governments' panic regarding the myth of globaloney warming." So the very basis of this flood to lektrik is based on pure BS propaganda designed to scare people into doing something they might not normally do.
Lektriks WOULD have evolved. Along with various nations' grids. And figuring out WHERE to charge, if you have street parking only. BTW, just how does that work out? Oh don't worry, that will work out just fine.



As many of our mothers used to tell us, "Just because everyone else is doing it does that mean it's right?" Well hell no.

This is a political movement, not an engineering evolution. And when politics--think politicians, who often don't know their arse from their elbow, or much else either, except how to compulsively lie--rules something, well what could possibly go wrong?

No worries! We'll all be fine!
I am looking forward to the EV era we are entering but not because I care about global warming or saving this planet! (Those claims are ridiculous).

I want the EV market to take off because it takes care of the radical fluctuations in oil prices based on what's happening around the world.

Do these technologies have to be paid for first? Yes, but once paid for the cost fluctuations are minimal. Plus electric cars are really fast. It's a win win in my opinion.

Stop living in fear, stop bring a dinosaur and embrace the ever changing future
 

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You are way off target if you keep insisting this is "fear." More like "concern" for "poorly thought-out pie-in-the-sky projects with other peoples' money and based largely on governments' panic regarding the myth of globaloney warming." So the very basis of this flood to lektrik is based on pure BS propaganda designed to scare people into doing something they might not normally do.
Lektriks WOULD have evolved. Along with various nations' grids. And figuring out WHERE to charge, if you have street parking only. BTW, just how does that work out? Oh don't worry, that will work out just fine.



As many of our mothers used to tell us, "Just because everyone else is doing it does that mean it's right?" Well hell no.

This is a political movement, not an engineering evolution. And when politics--think politicians, who often don't know their arse from their elbow, or much else either, except how to compulsively lie--rules something, well what could possibly go wrong?

No worries! We'll all be fine!
Keep making that noise. The World is moving on and it is moving on with EVs. Currently, Norway leads the march with an EV market share of 74.7%. Seen another way, EVs in Norway outsell ICEs by a margin of 3 to 1. In a distant 2nd place is Sweden at 32.2% followed by the Netherlands at 24.6% in 3rd place. Globally, EVs have 4.6% of the light-duty EV market with the USA tagging along behind at 2.2% and Japan bringing up with rear at 0.6%. Politics or not, the World is not going to stop so that the US can either catch up or persuade it that the decision to switch to EV was all a mistake.

Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
 

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And GM continues to research! I think trucks (18 wheelers), warehouse vehicles, delivery type vehicles (Amazon) will be where hydrogen ends up, but not regular passenger vehicles. To much infrastructure costs needed. Companies like Amazon can afford their own hydrogen stations at their warehouses and a smaller on highway system of hydrogen filling stations can be made to fill trucks.
Can hydrogen ever be more affordable then regular gas? HYDROGEN cars have been driving around for 20 years. Clearly the technology works can it be delivered to the public for a reasonable price? Remember when battery technology was threw the roof? People said no way this becomes mainstream. What do you think those people think now?
 

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Nah, still need to continue research in this area. Fuel cells are still maybe 20 yrs away from being practical and Korea is doubling down in this area. Need to keep up in case they need to change their product mix. Don't want to have to buy tech from other countries/competitors.
GM is actively commercializing their fuel cell tech. They have deals with Navistar for trucks and Wabtec for trains. They're working with Liebherr-Aerospace to develop an aircraft APU demonstrator.

Also expect to see a medium duty BEV and FCEV truck in a few years. I expect the drivetrain from that will be their solution for HD pickups.
 
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