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Original Saturn idea and small cars were decent, I remember them well. GM should have just made a better Cavalier and Sunbird instead of another brand (although it was better than GEO).

I remember looking seriously at a VUE when we had little kids but their sticker prices were not great and a V6 made the vehicle very expensive vs. competitors.
 

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Original Saturn idea and small cars were decent, I remember them well. GM should have just made a better Cavalier and Sunbird instead of another brand (although it was better than GEO).

I remember looking seriously at a VUE when we had little kids but their sticker prices were not great and a V6 made the vehicle very expensive vs. competitors.

My son and his wife bought a 2006 Saturn Vue with the Honda-built V-6 and transmission. They liked the vehicle and often spoke on how good the dealer service was.

I drove the vehicle several times and helped service it. It was comfortable, well designed and had good outward vision. Inside, it was “too loud” and did not have enough body insulation to eliminate some of the road noise.

I paid for an OnStar subscription for the vehicle as a gift - and my son and his wife thought it was a waste of money.

The vehicle was demolished when my son was hit head-on by the driver of a GMC 2500 series pickup truck that drove fully left of center. My son, wearing his seatbelt, was knocked unconscious in the crash and received other injuries. The OnStar system activated and summoned the police and fire. He was removed from the vehicle by EMT’s and taken to a local hospital. While the emergency respondeders were en route, OnStar contacted his wife and notified her.
 

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Think about what GM could've done tom improve Chevy and Pontiac with the money spent on Saturn..............One can only imagine what the hell GM was thinking sinking all that money into a new brand vs focusing on fixing their largest bread and butter division Chevy.
 

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Think about what GM could've done tom improve Chevy and Pontiac with the money spent on Saturn..............One can only imagine what the hell GM was thinking sinking all that money into a new brand vs focusing on fixing their largest bread and butter division Chevy.

Very true. I guess they figured - and they were right to some degree - that people were forever soured on Chevy and Pontiac. That money - billions - could have helped across all brands (Olds).

The first Saturns were nothing special, but decent cars. I had a '97 SC1 coupe, just my inexpensive drive-anywhere car. And even with a 100HP engine, it was actually a nice little ride. The dealership did provide the great service and attention that was most responsible for whatever success the brand had.

Like the last Oldsmobile lineup, the last Saturn lineup was really quite good: Astra, Aura, SKY, VUE, Outlook. It was just too late, and the crash of 2008 didn't help. I thought the 3-door Astra was rather nice. The Aura was really a nice car, nicer IMO than the very successful '08 Malibu it was similar to. Actually, I thought that the SKY was nicer than the Solstice, and the Outlook was at least as nice as the Acadia and Enclave, and nicer than the original Traverse. And the 2nd-gen VUE was I think specific to Saturn and a very nice CUV.
 

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The idea of Saturn was sound.
They were meant to attract a new buyer who wouldn't give GM a look. And for a time, they did well.

Then the fact that it was a GM brand came back to haunt them.
Internal politics ultimately starved Saturn of product. When it got product, it was too late. And then the products became sad rebadges.
Saturn didn't really have an extensive dealership network.
Manufacturing techniques and lessons learned about customer service never filtered to the rest of GM.

Saturn SL2 was my first car. And it ran forever. The only real problem it had was alternator burnout every time I changed the battery. it was a solid, albeit very noisy car.

People can always point to GM not funding Chevy and/or Pontiac for Saturn's existence/demise. But people forget that GM was bleeding customers at the time. They didn't want Chevy or Pontiac. Their products sucked compared to imports. SO Saturn was the answer.

The key reason for Saturn's failure, and ultimately old GM's failure was their politics. They thought they could do no wrong. They were wrong.
 

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One can only imagine what the hell GM was thinking sinking all that money into a new brand vs focusing on fixing their largest bread and butter division Chevy.
Yes, Saturn was a costly mistake and likely damaged many other GM brands. GM needed big improvements of the Cavalier/Sunbird and repositioning Buick/Oldsmobile instead of another ineffective purchase (SAAB).
 

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The idea of Saturn was sound.
They were meant to attract a new buyer who wouldn't give GM a look. And for a time, they did well.

Then the fact that it was a GM brand came back to haunt them.
Internal politics ultimately starved Saturn of product. When it got product, it was too late. And then the products became sad rebadges.
Saturn didn't really have an extensive dealership network.
Manufacturing techniques and lessons learned about customer service never filtered to the rest of GM.

Saturn SL2 was my first car. And it ran forever. The only real problem it had was alternator burnout every time I changed the battery. it was a solid, albeit very noisy car.

People can always point to GM not funding Chevy and/or Pontiac for Saturn's existence/demise. But people forget that GM was bleeding customers at the time. They didn't want Chevy or Pontiac. Their products sucked compared to imports. SO Saturn was the answer.

The key reason for Saturn's failure, and ultimately old GM's failure was their politics. They thought they could do no wrong. They were wrong.

Some of their products got better over time, some worse. The second generation compacts (ION I think) were a huge disappointment. And their first midsize was a huge mistake. What was it, the "L" or something like that?

But the Aura was a very nice car. The Malibu really was a rebadge of the Aura. North American COTY in 2007, among other awards.

And the Outlook may have been the nicest of the excellent Lambdas. SKY and Solstice were the same cars of course, but to my eyes anyway the SKY was a much nicer design.
 

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Some of their products got better over time, some worse. The second generation compacts (ION I think) were a huge disappointment. And their first midsize was a huge mistake. What was it, the "L" or something like that?

But the Aura was a very nice car. The Malibu really was a rebadge of the Aura. North American COTY in 2007, among other awards.

And the Outlook may have been the nicest of the excellent Lambdas. SKY and Solstice were the same cars of course, but to my eyes anyway the SKY was a much nicer design.
When the Opel Speedster/Vauxhall VX220 ended production, the Sky was rebadged as Opel GT but being American, there was no RHD version for Vauxhall or Holden - doesn't look like we missed anything.
 

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When the Opel Speedster/Vauxhall VX220 ended production, the Sky was rebadged as Opel GT but being American, there was no RHD version for Vauxhall or Holden - doesn't look like we missed anything.

You didn't miss anything if you don't like a good looking, fun roadster.

Pile on Saturn all you want, but they sold some nice vehicles. Interesting that of the good feelings that linger for Saturn, they're mostly for the original SL and SC cars, which were very ordinary at best. Saturn built a good reputation more on customer service and their no-haggle pricing philospophy, not really so much for actual abilities of the SL and SC. And there's a lesson to be learned in that (treat people well, pretty simple really). But some of the later Saturns were better vehicles than the originals, regardless of whether they were shared with other GM divisions.
 

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but being American, there was no RHD version for Vauxhall or Holden - doesn't look like we missed anything.
UK got American RHD Vauxhall Sintra. 😄
 

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UK got American RHD Vauxhall Sintra. 😄
That rebadged version of the Chevrolet Venture was the biggest heap of **** ever sold in the UK - it took 4 years to sell the first year's allocation, had the worst reliability of any car in living memory and the RHD version got a poor EuroNCAP rating due to poor conversion to RHD.
 

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Some of their products got better over time, some worse. The second generation compacts (ION I think) were a huge disappointment. And their first midsize was a huge mistake. What was it, the "L" or something like that?

But the Aura was a very nice car. The Malibu really was a rebadge of the Aura. North American COTY in 2007, among other awards.

And the Outlook may have been the nicest of the excellent Lambdas. SKY and Solstice were the same cars of course, but to my eyes anyway the SKY was a much nicer design.

I will always love Saturn.
I think the potential for the brand and the company were never fully realized by old GM. Which is kinda the way it went at old GM.

The L-series Saturns weren't good enough really to take on Accord.
Aura was really nice for its time. That was the start of a reinvention of Saturn to be more "premium Euro" instead of the down-home folksy cute car of the past.
At that point, you really just started losing people and brand focus. And the transition never really took hold.

I think iterating and refining on what it had, and getting additional product in a timely way would have helped Saturn greatly. There was a lot of positive buzz around it for quite some time. GM just never capitalized on it, or even managed to really learn from the experiment.

That experiment lives on now at Tesla, with their no-haggle, no-discount pricing. Love it or leave it. And a focus on service is continuing at brands that see true value in it as well.
 

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The idea of Saturn was sound.
They were meant to attract a new buyer who wouldn't give GM a look. And for a time, they did well.

Then the fact that it was a GM brand came back to haunt them.
Internal politics ultimately starved Saturn of product. When it got product, it was too late. And then the products became sad rebadges.
Saturn didn't really have an extensive dealership network.
Manufacturing techniques and lessons learned about customer service never filtered to the rest of GM.

Saturn SL2 was my first car. And it ran forever. The only real problem it had was alternator burnout every time I changed the battery. it was a solid, albeit very noisy car.

People can always point to GM not funding Chevy and/or Pontiac for Saturn's existence/demise. But people forget that GM was bleeding customers at the time. They didn't want Chevy or Pontiac. Their products sucked compared to imports. SO Saturn was the answer.

The key reason for Saturn's failure, and ultimately old GM's failure was their politics. They thought they could do no wrong. They were wrong.
I have to agree about the Idea of Saturn being sound, I sold them and was in F&I at a retailer for 10 years. The customer service HAD to be stellar as they had 30 days or 1500 miles to bring it back, no questions asked!
As stated, GM politics starved Saturn for product and they didn't get what they needed until it was too late. The second gen "SL" cars were extensive MCE's. Same platform, different looks, drove exactly like their predecessors. The "L" was just sad! They marketed it as a Omega redo that only shared one part! What was that? Still, loyal Saturn owners, and they were loyal, bought it anyway. I left shortly after that so I wasn't there for the Oldsmobileization of Saturn, which to me is what they did, brought back Olds as Saturn. GM still to this day doesn't utilize the customer service skills learned from Saturn. Sad really!
 

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I drove a Saturn, it seemed OK but not outstanding. Price is high, sticker is at least $2000 over invoice. You can do better than that almost anywhere.
 

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Imagine where Cadillac would be now if Johan had been let to see his vision through
It took Audi 3 generations in order for V8/A8 to be accepted alongside the S-Class and 7-series — 1995-2010.
With each subsequent iteration of the V8/A8, there were substantial improvements to the product.
That's how long it takes to build a reputation.

OK... it didn't hurt that during that period of time was a really dark time for Mercedes' quality on the W220.

Cadillac just needs time and patience. The only product line Cadillac has managed to do that for is Escalade. And that's why Escalade is respected.
 

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It took Audi 3 generations in order for V8/A8 to be accepted alongside the S-Class and 7-series — 1995-2010.
With each subsequent iteration of the V8/A8, there were substantial improvements to the product.
That's how long it takes to build a reputation.

OK... it didn't hurt that during that period of time was a really dark time for Mercedes' quality on the W220.

Cadillac just needs time and patience. The only product line Cadillac has managed to do that for is Escalade. And that's why Escalade is respected.
Unless you consider that the Blackwing Cadillac is a very impressive product, and according to Johan it was a mere Vsport
 

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Unless you consider that the Blackwing Cadillac is a very impressive product, and according to Johan it was a mere Vsport

You still don't see the forest from the trees huh?

Yes. The Blackwing is a great product. But it is a branding disaster.
Cadillac blew up what the V stood for. V has always been the top performance line. V-Sport was the mild-performance line/body package. Why reverse that? Why make the V the new mild performance line. And introduce V Blackwing as the top performance line? And why Blackwing, since the engine is 1) dead and 2) not in the Blackwings?
It reeks of "we spent all this money on a Blackwing trademark to not use it, so let's use it."

Yeah. It's a great product. I don't argue that point. But it has a disastrous trail of confusion behind it. There's no consistency into what anything means. How laughable is this gonna be when a "Celestiq V Blackwing" shows up?! It probably won't because none of this makes any sense for the EV world. And the consistency of a lack of consistency continues.

GM's abrupt product shifts at Cadillac have left it weak and with product that is inconsistent and unworthy of being in the lineup. GM has never allowed Cadillac the time, patience, or money to execute properly, and they don't see the value of the Cadillac brand. They've proven as much.

And it's the same story at Saturn. Strange product shifts. Inability to get the correct product on time. And wasting all of the goodwill the brandy have earned.
 
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