[Almag]

The standard production GT-R just lapped the 'Ring in 7 minutes, 29 seconds. Previously, it turned a 7:38 on a day where a few of the corners were damp.

Apparently it dried out...

Note: this is NOT the V-Spec

 

[Slideways]

The standard production GT-R just lapped the 'Ring in 7 minutes, 29 seconds. Previously, it turned a 7:38 on a day where a few of the corners were damp.

Apparently it dried out...

Note: this is NOT the V-Spec

The race is on! A C6 Z06 posted a 7:43 in less-than-ideal conditions, and and a C6 ZR1 ran a 7:40 when it was damp, and with someone sitting shotgun. I think that we'll see better times from all three cars

 

[Butz]

The GT-R is heavier than the Corvette, right?
Wow! This is a great feat, too bad the car is too ugly

 

[void.crusader]

It looks great. Too bad I can't afford 80K car ...

 

[61BelAir]

Impressive time for the GTR. Obviously certain tracks will favor certain cars. One track the GTR may be faster and another track the ZR1 will be faster. If I had $100k i'd take the ZR1 and all that glorious HP.

 

[Vladimir1978]

Impressive time for the GTR. Obviously certain tracks will favor certain cars. One track the GTR may be faster and another track the ZR1 will be faster. If I had $100k i'd take the ZR1 and all that glorious HP.

The whole point of the Nurburgring is that it favors the fastest overall car.

I also highly doubt that 100k will get you into a ZR1. GM has not priced it yet, have they?

 

[61BelAir]

The whole point of the Nurburgring is that it favors the fastest overall car.

I also highly doubt that 100k will get you into a ZR1. GM has not priced it yet, have they?

I guess you might want to clarify what you mean by "fastest". If you are talking about ET's than the GTR obviously has a very quick time. If you are talking about actual top speed then I would go with the lighter, more powerful car. I believe I saw a post the other day that said the ZR1 is in the 205 mph range. The GTR being 3900 lbs probably won't have as much top speed.

 

[Joevette]

That is very impressive, but how many of us actually are going to race a car on a race track and worry about the time... 1%. I would take the z06/zr1 because it has greater top end, and highway races/drag races are the most my car would probably ever see. plus im kind of bias, but if i had the money i would probably get both cars. The GTR can sure hold speed around a track though, i guess having the power routed to what ever wheel makes sense really helps, rather then trying to control it through just two wheels

 

[void.crusader]

I guess you might want to clarify what you mean by "fastest". If you are talking about ET's than the GTR obviously has a very quick time. If you are talking about actual top speed then I would go with the lighter, more powerful car. I believe I saw a post the other day that said the ZR1 is in the 205 mph range. The GTR being 3900 lbs probably won't have as much top speed.

I hope you know that weight doesn't affect car top speed? Only power and aero drag.

For me, living in US, I couldn't care less what top speed the car have.

 

[61BelAir]

I hope you know that weight doesn't affect car top speed? Only power and aero drag.

For me, living in US, I couldn't care less what top speed the car have.

Weight doesn't effect top speed? Can you elaborate on that?

 

[Slideways]

Weight doesn't effect top speed? Can you elaborate on that?

He's right. Yes, weight hurts acceleration and consequently it will hurt your top speed in a drag race, but given a long enough route (salt flat, long straight on a race track) you're fighting wind resistance. Acceleration is largely power/weight ratio (drag plays a small role), where top speed is more like power/drag coefficient ratio.

 

[61BelAir]

He's right. Yes, weight hurts acceleration and consequently it will hurt your top speed in a drag race, but given a long enough route (salt flat, long straight on a race track) you're fighting wind resistance. Acceleration is largely power/weight ratio (drag plays a small role), where top speed is more like power/drag coefficient ratio.

So two identical cars, same HP and same CD, one weighing 3000 lbs the other 4000 lbs will have the same top speed?

 

[Slideways]

So two identical cars, same HP and same CD, one weighing 3000 lbs the other 4000 lbs will have the same top speed?

Yes, but the 3,000lb one will get there sooner. OK, there might be extra friction at the wheel bearings, but I don't know how much that would be and what it would mean for top speed.

 

[void.crusader]

Weight doesn't effect top speed? Can you elaborate on that?

Think of (not artificially limited) top speed as a condition when result of all forces applied to the car is zero.

You have engine generating max power pushing the car forward and air resistance pushing the car back. Both forces don't directly depend on car weight (though heavier larger cars tend to have larger frontal area).

Btw that's why VW engineers created such behemoth as Veyron - they only cared about top speed and weight isn't a problem for it.

TopSpeed ~ cube_root[ MaxPower / (DragCoeff * FrontalArea) ]

GT-R is very sleek at 6.8 sq.ft (drag * frontal)
Z06 is not so at 7.6 sq.ft

OK, there might be extra friction at the wheel bearings, but I don't know how much that would be and what it would mean for top speed.

This and area of contact patch could be greater (with same tire pressure) - hence more rolling resistance.

But these factors are several magnitudes less important than power and drag.

 

[mbukukanyau]

Think of (not artificially limited) top speed as a condition when result of all forces applied to the car is zero.

You have engine generating max power pushing the car forward and air resistance pushing the car back. Both forces don't directly depend on car weight (though heavier larger cars tend to have larger frontal area).

Btw that's why VW engineers created such behemoth as Veyron - they only cared about top speed and weight isn't a problem for it.

TopSpeed ~ cube_root[ MaxPower / (DragCoeff * FrontalArea) ]

GT-R is very sleek at 6.8 sq.ft (drag * frontal)
Z06 is not so at 7.6 sq.ft



This and area of contact patch could be greater (with same tire pressure) - hence more rolling resistance.

But these factors are several magnitudes less important than power and drag.

I am no expert, but, does a 1001 HP W16 rocket mill not improve on the Veyron's power to weight ratios, theys making its weight vs. power great. Remember, the Veyron is a small two seater rear engined supercar with a massive engine, AWD, and extremely good drag coeficient... Its built for speed... So weight was an issue.
As in, I am not disputing your case. I just need to get more info.
Did they build that monster out of steel only? Or is it using carbon fibre wood, etc like the Z06 or Enzo?

 

[free_energy0]

I hope you know that weight doesn't affect car top speed? Only power and aero drag.

For me, living in US, I couldn't care less what top speed the car have.

Weight does effect top speed by increasing rolling resistance as the tire flexes.

Many GT-R haters are eating crow now (Haskell, PMC,etc.). Apologies and humility are in order

 

[CobaltSScrazy]

the new standard has been set. Hopefully GTR Vspec runs in the 7 minutes and teens or breaks below 7:10!!!

I hope ZR1 pans out to be the world beater its hyped up to be. Recent GM 'great world class auto's' have been living up to expectations and hopefully GM follows suit with ZR1. If its just the best car GM ever built and not 'better' than the GTR versions and on par with Porsches latest and greatest, then I would love nothing more than to see it get annihilated and embarrassed so Corvette standards get raised yet again and GM comes back with a car that outdoes the Vspec GTR by a long shot.

The consumer wins this one...

Better yet, lets see the XTS and get an XTC off it to compete with a bentley continental GT and the 6 series (and old CL / new CLS). I hope to the Heavens that happens. a "Big Brother" to the CTC-V!

CobaltSS

 

[Jimi]

I am no expert, but, does a 1001 HP W16 rocket mill not improve on the Veyron's power to weight ratios, theys making its weight vs. power great. Remember, the Veyron is a small two seater rear engined supercar with a massive engine, AWD, and extremely good drag coeficient... Its built for speed... So weight was an issue.
As in, I am not disputing your case. I just need to get more info.
Did they build that monster out of steel only? Or is it using carbon fibre wood, etc like the Z06 or Enzo?

The 1001 HP certainly helps the power-to-weight ratio of the Veyron, but its only the power along with its drag coefficient that will have a significant impact on its top speed. Physics don't lie.

 

[Slideways]

Weight does effect top speed by increasing rolling resistance as the tire flexes.

If the tire flexes too much it's underinflated or not suited for the vehicle. Rolling resistance is a teeny-tiny factory. Put Michael Moore behind the wheel of the Veyron with Oprah sitting shotgun and it will still hit 253mph, just the same as if Danica was at the wheel.

 

[void.crusader]

I am no expert, but, does a 1001 HP W16 rocket mill not improve on the Veyron's power to weight ratios, theys making its weight vs. power great. Remember, the Veyron is a small two seater rear engined supercar with a massive engine, AWD, and extremely good drag coeficient... Its built for speed... So weight was an issue.
As in, I am not disputing your case. I just need to get more info.
Did they build that monster out of steel only? Or is it using carbon fibre wood, etc like the Z06 or Enzo?

1001ps mill certainly helps power/weight ratio, acceleration and top speed.
The thing is, VW boss had a wet dream of 400kmh car, and for this particular goal 4200 lbs car is just as good as 3500lbs. They could made it lighter, going RWD, manual, with smaller engine (Hennessey Viper 1000 comes to mind), but they choose not to.

Veyron doesn't have extremely good drag coefficient. Even at special speed-mode it's still quite a brick - 0.36.
GT-R have 0.27.

CdA for Veyron is 8.02, worser than Z06 or GT-R.
My guess is designers and marketing dep, not engineers, were given upper hand on this behemoth.

Weight does effect top speed by increasing rolling resistance as the tire flexes.

As I said it's possible, but not necessarily - depends on the tire compound/structure and pressure.