GM Inside News Forum banner
21 - 40 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,798 Posts
It allows them to focus on better product. Instead of focusing time, money and energy into developing cheap cars to sell in every emerging market, GM wants to focus on the profitable markets, where higher margin products can flutter seemelssly between each other. Like China and the US for example...

I think it sounds good, then again, it could have been driven by this Greenlight shenanigans.
Read the Outboard Motors Corp, story. It is not always Better Product, in fact it could be the demise of a Long Lived Company without Diversity. I just find it Strange, that GM seemingly, rather than trying to build Profitability in these markets, simply declare "It can't be done" "Focus on the Market we know". First off, Others have made it in those other Markets, and secondly, your Home Market, has those player in it know also. It is not the same playing field.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,144 Posts
Read the Outboard Motors Corp, story. It is not always Better Product, in fact it could be the demise of a Long Lived Company without Diversity. I just find it Strange, that GM seemingly, rather than trying to build Profitability in these markets, simply declare "It can't be done" "Focus on the Market we know". First off, Others have made it in those other Markets, and secondly, your Home Market, has those player in it know also. It is not the same playing field.
But it seems like you are taking this from the premise that GM didn't look into this, I am sure they did and determined to get out of the market. The old GM would've stayed and they did stay in all these markets to sustain their #1 position and kept throwing good money after bad. I have no issue with them retrenching, focusing on profitable markets, with the door open to re-entering markets as they become friendlier to the kind of profit margins GM wants to maintain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,105 Posts
It allows them to focus on better product. Instead of focusing time, money and energy into developing cheap cars to sell in every emerging market, GM wants to focus on the profitable markets, where higher margin products can flutter seemelssly between each other. Like China and the US for example...
Isn't more than half of GM's sales in China Wuling and Baojun? Hardly what I'd call higher margin products that can flutter seamlessly between China and the US. And that doesn't even include things like the Buick Excelle and the Chevy Cavalier. Those products probably have a lot more appeal in India than in the US.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
34,361 Posts
What each of GM brands leadership needs to do in these markets where GM is scaling down is develop really good sales networks first using their North American manufacturing footprint, get those networks humming to justify investment and go from there. Of course this will require teaching people to build right hand drive vehicles in North America.. a tall order, consindering if you have been to America, you do not need to travel since you have already travelled.

As in GM needs to learn how to export from America.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,201 Posts
We don't know that these were hasty decisions, they could have been deliberating them for years....

I'm sure that they weren't hasty. Certainly, they were analyzed thoroughly. But what's the long term plan? Is it to dominate the North American market with the best, most popular products? That, I could get behind. But it just seems to me, that is not at all the goal.

All I know is, GM is paying to retreat from markets. If the goal is to consolidate and produce the best, most profitable, most popular products in the world, it seems that doing that and staying in certain markets are not mutually exclusive.
 

·
News Editor
Joined
·
1,602 Posts
Isn't more than half of GM's sales in China Wuling and Baojun? Hardly what I'd call higher margin products that can flutter seamlessly between China and the US. And that doesn't even include things like the Buick Excelle and the Chevy Cavalier. Those products probably have a lot more appeal in India than in the US.
From what I understand SAIC-GM-Wuling will continue to sell products in India. The Chevrolet brand is disapearing from India, but GM isn't, per se.

Products like the Excelle and Cavalier are based on old GMDAT architecture, this upcoming GEM achitecture will replace everything Korea and Opel ever engineered for GM small car wise. Shortly there will be more overlap with China than anyone ever thought would be possible...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
14,201 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,798 Posts
But it seems like you are taking this from the premise that GM didn't look into this, I am sure they did and determined to get out of the market. The old GM would've stayed and they did stay in all these markets to sustain their #1 position and kept throwing good money after bad. I have no issue with them retrenching, focusing on profitable markets, with the door open to re-entering markets as they become friendlier to the kind of profit margins GM wants to maintain.
True. I don't have the numbers in front of me. Just tidbits here and there. Opel/Vauxhall sale, I did hear what was left to GM in Pensions due. I did read What operating loses were. All look like GM made the right move.

What isn't obvious is, How much Opel/Vauxhall R&D $$$$'s were used in other GM brands? The Verano/Regal alone, would Buick NA show a profit if they funded 2 of their Entry Level Products? Especially Cars, which are a loss to most NA Manufactures right now, but Buick? is a Car Rich History Brand. A brand that would be lost without Cars.

Auto Business, happens Very Slowly. 5 Years from thought to Showroom. A lot of dollar spent in 5 years before dollar 1 is turned back in to the coffers. There can be many Market changes in those 5 years. Putting all your eggs in one basket adds up to, Don't Drop that Basket!
 

·
Registered
2020 Chevrolet Equinox LT AWD
Joined
·
12,637 Posts
It allows them to focus on better product. Instead of focusing time, money and energy into developing cheap cars to sell in every emerging market, GM wants to focus on the profitable markets, where higher margin products can flutter seemelssly between each other. Like China and the US for example...

I think it sounds good, then again, it could have been driven by this Greenlight shenanigans.
I understand that. But in exchange, I'd like to see GM dominate every segment it competes in. That's not happening.
But they've only just started to shed the dead wood in March. This won't start bearing fruit product wise until maybe 2 years down the road.
Mike, we'll see. I've heard that story for like......30 years.
Only time will tell, but it keeps marching on and so far nada don't look to promising to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,305 Posts
This is just more of the same that we have seen from GM in recent times.

Holden is dead in Australia anyway with GMNA not letting Holden build what they wanted to, and now the plant closing.

Not to worry, plenty of other manufacturers are filling the void that was too hard/cant be bothered mentality of RenCen, and building vehicles that people want.

Give it 10 years and GM will be gone.

Good riddance GM, youve f#[email protected] up the lives, livelihoods and economies of too many people around the world. Stick to building trucks in the US and Cadillacs in China, and leave the car making business to the professionals!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,144 Posts
This is just more of the same that we have seen from GM in recent times.

Holden is dead in Australia anyway with GMNA not letting Holden build what they wanted to, and now the plant closing.

Not to worry, plenty of other manufacturers are filling the void that was too hard/cant be bothered mentality of RenCen, and building vehicles that people want.

Give it 10 years and GM will be gone.

Good riddance GM, youve f#[email protected] up the lives, livelihoods and economies of too many people around the world. Stick to building trucks in the US and Cadillacs in China, and leave the car making business to the professionals!
What are cars people want? The Ute? Sports cars? Chevy SS/Monaro or large rwd cars or Volkswagen GTI like cars? If that is what you are talking about, then I disagree. Those are cars that all of us on GMI want, but the buying public don't want or don't want in large numbers. Sadly, the buying public wants the Toyota Camry and boring CUV's, which GM is working on giving us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,798 Posts
What are cars people want? The Ute? Sports cars? Chevy SS/Monaro or large rwd cars or Volkswagen GTI like cars? If that is what you are talking about, then I disagree. Those are cars that all of us on GMI want, but the buying public don't want or don't want in large numbers. Sadly, the buying public wants the Toyota Camry and boring CUV's, which GM is working on giving us.
The Equation is quite simple. Once value (real or perceived) Exceeds price, that is the Vehicle People want. It doesn't have to be a Hatch, it doesn't have to have the Most Power, it doesn't have to have the Most Cargo Capacity.

GM does build these from time to time, but then Gouges Everyone who is waiting in line to get one. SSR, Camaro, Colorado, Volt, Acadia Denali, to name but a few. This 70's/80's "If We build it, You Will like it" attitude doesn't work anymore with twice the Competition and half of the Die Hard Following out there.

Too Big to Fail, or Too Old to Teach?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,144 Posts
The Equation is quite simple. Once value (real or perceived) Exceeds price, that is the Vehicle People want. It doesn't have to be a Hatch, it doesn't have to have the Most Power, it doesn't have to have the Most Cargo Capacity.

GM does build these from time to time, but then Gouges Everyone who is waiting in line to get one. SSR, Camaro, Colorado, Volt, Acadia Denali, to name but a few. This 70's/80's "If We build it, You Will like it" attitude doesn't work anymore with twice the Competition and half of the Die Hard Following out there.

Too Big to Fail, or Too Old to Teach?
That's the problem, back in the day GM used to give us affordable performance cars - Grand Prix GTP, Z34, Z24, etc.. All flawed and typically ended up on the bottom of the comparisons, biggest contributor to their flaws was they were built to sell relatively cheaply. The new GM doesn't do that, they build, or try to build the best which drives the cost up to unaffordable levels or drives a Cruze into Camaro or 3 Series price territory. They are also engineering their regular cars so that they can't accept V6's, etc. for weight savings/mpgs. V8 Malibu's are no longer going to happen.

And don't get me wrong, I want a turbo V6 Malibu or something like that but I know it isn't going to happen.

On the same token, the regular models are much better and don't end up on the bottom of the comparisons. GM is focusing on making the mainstream cars good and to build them profitably, not make the entire lineup profitless except for the top of the line performance models (which, in the old GM weren't profitable either).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,653 Posts
GM has given up on RHD, one third of the worlds car sales then?

GM Australia days must be numbered, RHD India/Japan/South Africa/UK are gone.

Practical, roomy, smart, durable RWD Tavera was the only real GM success in India the 9 seater version was a very popular taxi, that the typical large family in India ever warmed to and sold very well, so GM send them crap like the boring bland cramped Beat & Spark sold at huge losses that nobody wants, and another epic GM global FAIL followed.


Daewoo, Opel & Chevrolet have all had a go and failed in India, the mounting losses in India continued to rack-up so l am not surprised GM have pulled the plug on selling cars if the losses are getting bigger every year. Only car that India ever warmed to was the roomy boxy RWD Chevrolet Tavera, apart from that GM failed to understand the market again, the former No1 Chinese best selling car the Chinese RWD Wuling Sunshine or Chinese No 1 current best seller vehicle the RWD Wuling Hongguang with 650,018 units in 2016 would have sold like hotcakes in India.

GM Europe used the most expensive labor in Germany to assemble hard to make a profit on small FWD Opel's most ending up life as a boring mundane fleet/rental car sold in big batches at a huge loss, thats not the way to run a long term sustainable business if you are losing billion dollar losses every year, Opel never moved themselves more up market where the higher profits are generated.

South Korean Chevrolet labor costs have gone through roof, unions have given GM a lot of grief with unrealistic pay demands every year, and their small FWD products were not all that, they were regular at finishing bottom in reliability & customer satisfaction. High wages poor build quality is not a recipe for success.

It's the pick-ups and SUV's in North American market, and industrious China which makes a small profit in comparison, is all that pays its way supports the rest of GM thats losing money.

GM should be making products that the buyer wants to buy globally and making a nice healthy profit in every country, the anodyne styling of GM's FWD mainstream cars lately has been one off the biggest let downs both in massive recall costs, expensive court cases settlements, deaths & compensation/and massive losses at FWD brands like Opel.

Ford look like they will inherit the Avis/Hertz million rental car sales a year hire/rental market l can see a Fiesta/Focus car sales boom but bigger loses at Ford, propped up with F-Series profits.

It seems to me when folk buy anodyne "fridge freezer appliance cars" these days they seem to want only the reliable appliances from Honda/Nissan/Toyota Accord/Camry/ Corolla fridge freezers in North America the Toyota Hilux was No1 best seller in 33 countries last year GM can't even do a pick-up in a huge place like Europe, and well screwed together rattle free VW's in places like Europe, BMW & Mercedes seem to be making huge profits in luxury car market, they can sell LHD/RHD car in any country on the plant and still make a tidy profit.

Would like to see at least one mainstream fuel efficient roomy RWD car like maybe Impala to offer at least offer one choice other than a sea of FWD options sold at a loss, not everybody wants a cramped Corvette or Camaro high performance cars. Cadillac needs to be sold everywhere they offer the best chance of making a tidy profit, good to see GM are cutting out the cancer that has caused huge losses over the last couple of decades, that good not much money to be made on the roof a small FWD Chevy in India.

GM are going to be a highly profitable company l can see that coming with a great future, l hope they will learn from the mistakes of the past ann start to grow worldwide in a more sustainable way in the future and offer the right products, l can see a one-world Chevrolet for the mass market & luxury Cadillac a bit like Ford & Lincoln, l just hope and pray there will be no peak oil blips that will hit the trucks/profits in the future
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,798 Posts
That's the problem, back in the day GM used to give us affordable performance cars - Grand Prix GTP, Z34, Z24, etc.. All flawed and typically ended up on the bottom of the comparisons, biggest contributor to their flaws was they were built to sell relatively cheaply. The new GM doesn't do that, they build, or try to build the best which drives the cost up to unaffordable levels or drives a Cruze into Camaro or 3 Series price territory. They are also engineering their regular cars so that they can't accept V6's, etc. for weight savings/mpgs. V8 Malibu's are no longer going to happen.
Not at all. It seems as though GM believes that Because a Cruze is not a Z24 as far as Quality, it should demand a bigger price. GM needs to look around and see that No One is building Z24 Quality, (It didn't work) but Everyone is in that market/price/quality. This way of thinking is what has plagued GM since the Asian Invasion.

I can recall, trying to sell an Accord Customer an SSE Bonneville. Even though his EXi was 3 years old, it drove better than the New SSE that I was trying to sell him. Even though the SSE was larger, better equipped and the same price as a New EXi, the Customer bought another Accord. And the closest Honda Dealer was 2 hours away.

Like, Why is a Cruze Hatch, higher priced than a Cruze Sedan? Just because it is New, to GM. Doesn't mean it is a Whole New Market. That is where Value for Dollar Spent comes into play. Making a CD Player an Option is just another point. I may never use a CD again, but the other vehicle has one Standard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,066 Posts
Given the current situation in South Africa and the way the country go, GM left before the "road apples" hit the fan big.
I replied to my self after 4 years I did this post and given the recent situation in South Africa. It's not now Toyota who raised red flags about leaving South Africa.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,144 Posts
I replied to my self after 4 years I did this post and given the recent situation in South Africa. It's not now Toyota who raised red flags about leaving South Africa.
This is an interesting thread to go back to, I just read through the comments. I still stand by my premise on India - still a train wreck with no clear path to China-like volume.

And, interesting to see Toyota questioning things. Not that what is going on in S. Africa is a good thing, but having Toyota questioning things kind of validates GM's approach and almost nice to see as we all question GM's decisions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,706 Posts
I replied to my self after 4 years I did this post and given the recent situation in South Africa. It's not now Toyota who raised red flags about leaving South Africa.


Interesting.

Following the riots in the USA in 2020, GM donated $1 million dollars to the NAACP legal defense fund, to help those arrested during the rioting: General Motors Designates $10 Million to Support Organizations Which Promote Inclusion and Racial Justice
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,066 Posts
This is an interesting thread to go back to, I just read through the comments. I still stand by my premise on India - still a train wreck with no clear path to China-like volume.

And, interesting to see Toyota questioning things. Not that what is going on in S. Africa is a good thing, but having Toyota questioning things kind of validates GM's approach and almost nice to see as we all question GM's decisions.
We got to wait and see if BMW, Nissan and VW will follow Toyota if Toyota decide to pack and leave.
 
21 - 40 of 42 Posts
Top