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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well there goes my hopes of Caddy coming back to South Africa after 2020 with RHD product.... Actually with GM out of the UK, SA and India the chances of there being any RHD product at all for Cadillac is likely dim. I'm amazed Holden survives (for now) (it has made profits recently).

https://www.wsj.com/articles/general-motors-will-stop-selling-cars-in-india-1495092601


General Motors Co said it will stop selling vehicles in India, the latest retrenching by the U.S. auto maker as it redirects investment in future technology and bolsters its presence in more-lucrative markets where it has a leadership position.

Once the world’s biggest car company in terms of sales, GM GM -2.99% has been retreating from several major and unprofitable markets under Chief Executive Mary Barra. In doing so, it has withdrawn from a race with Toyota Motor Co. TM -1.06% , Volkswagen AG and the Renault-Nissan alliance for the industry’s coveted sales crown.

While GM GM -2.99% will continue building products in India to sell in other countries, its decision to pull out of the market in the world’s second-most populous country reflects a wider recalculation of where it should be laying bets. It has centered most of its emerging-markets investment on China and Brazil.

India’s car market is fragmented, and auto makers that succeed there typically have a frugal approach to engineering. While selling cars in a market with millions of new buyers annually increases scale, turning a profit is difficult there, and other auto makers have expressed frustration. In March, Ford Motor Co. finance chief Bob Shanks said the crowded market and weak pricing make India “very difficult” and Ford’s approach “needs to change.”

GM is also pulling out entirely from South Africa, with plans to sell its relatively small manufacturing operation there to Isuzu Motors Ltd. The departures follow GM’s decision to pull out of Russia in 2015 and the pending sale of its European division, Opel AG, to Peugeot .

“In the most important markets where we have the strongest franchise, we’re in it to win it,” GM President Dan Ammann said in an interview. Although GM is notching record profits on strong sales in the U.S. and China, Mr. Ammann said the company still operates “in a world of finite resources.”
 

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From Automotive News:
"GM said on Thursday it will take a $500 million charge in the second quarter to restructure operations in India, Africa and Singapore. It will cancel most of a planned $1 billion investment to build a new line of low-cost vehicles in India.

About $200 million of the charge will be a cash expense, GM said. The moves are expected to save $100 million a year in a sector of GM's global business that last year lost about $800 million, the company said."
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Given the current situation in South Africa and the way the country go, GM left before the "road apples" hit the fan big.
I wish I could contradict you, but I can't. I've fortunately won the US diversity lottery so I'm hoping for a Green Card...and get the hell out of this increasingly insane country that seems to be run by people who believe US democratic party/ BLM/ Antifa talking points!
 

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Dumb move, especially India. Where would GM (esp. Cadillac) be today if they pulled out of China in the early days?

You can't just go back in when the market improves. By that time, companies with longer-term visions have established themselves already and newcomers only have a real shot if the established brands stumble.
 

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Long term, GM will be back in India. Its way too big to abandon forever. They'll wait until the market matures and car standards improve
My thoughts exactly. India is not China. As much as we don't like the Communist government, they do have a master plan and economic dominance is a major part of that plan, which ultimately includes car ownership. India is a mess of corruption, broken political and judicial systems coupled with massive poverty. Because of this, India is not attracting the level of investment $$ that China did and has. Without that investment there will never be a significant portion of the population that can afford a car or a car that is more than a glorified golf cart.. If India ever gets its act together then GM will come back.
 

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You can't just go back in when the market improves. By that time, companies with longer-term visions have established themselves already and newcomers only have a real shot if the established brands stumble.
Sure they can, Just buy TATA. GM has never been able to build Small at a Profit. Unless they Buy It.

The scary part, is when the Bean Counters decide that adding $5000 worth of Glitter to a $5000 car, they could be worth $30000 as a Buick.
 

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I'm starting to feel uneasy about all this retreating........
 
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My thoughts exactly. India is not China. As much as we don't like the Communist government, they do have a master plan and economic dominance is a major part of that plan, which ultimately includes car ownership. India is a mess of corruption, broken political and judicial systems coupled with massive poverty. Because of this, India is not attracting the level of investment $$ that China did and has. Without that investment there will never be a significant portion of the population that can afford a car or a car that is more than a glorified golf cart.. If India ever gets its act together then GM will come back.
Have you ever been to India? Well, I haven't :). But my take is that India is ~15 years behind China. Most of what you said about India above were common complaints about China among investors as recently as 7-10 years ago.

This year is SAIC-GM's 20th anniversary. India's overall GDP and per-capita GDP today are about twice what China's were when GM started investing there. It's a long-term game and now is the time to get established in India. And, unlike China in 1997 (when SAIC-GM started), India already has domestic car companies with high quality international operations and experience, not to mention long-established Japanese JVs. It's not going to be easy to get back in.

I think GM is becoming way too addicted to short-term profits. That's good to some extent, but not if you go overboard.
 

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I'm starting to feel uneasy about all this retreating........

Some of 'it' is ok - or better.....;):yup:

" Audi puts steel back in the new A8 "

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/05/20170512-audia8.html


" Audi A8: steel makes a comeback "

http://www.usa.arcelormittal.com/news-and-media/our-stories/2017/may/05-11-2017


Although sure enough, some is seriously disturbing, and some, is in the 'TBD' category.

This - about india / SA would seem at 'worst', to be in the latter.


Good example of the former -

" Ford to cut 1,400 salaried jobs in North America, Asia "

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...-cut-1400-salaried-jobs-in-north-america-asia
 

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Have you ever been to India? Well, I haven't :). But my take is that India is ~15 years behind China. Most of what you said about India above were common complaints about China among investors as recently as 7-10 years ago.

This year is SAIC-GM's 20th anniversary. India's overall GDP and per-capita GDP today are about twice what China's were when GM started investing there. It's a long-term game and now is the time to get established in India. And, unlike China in 1997 (when SAIC-GM started), India already has domestic car companies with high quality international operations and experience, not to mention long-established Japanese JVs. It's not going to be easy to get back in.

I think GM is becoming way too addicted to short-term profits. That's good to some extent, but not if you go overboard.
I have not been to India. However everything I've read has pointed to their government being a mess and nothing points to the massive improvements seen in China. China's government is very different from India's, China is a strong, authoritarian government, India's central government is in disarray and weak.
 

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Considering GM's history of laziness on a global scale, the speed of big decision making is frightening. Hope the plan will work, if there is one...
We don't know that these were hasty decisions, they could have been deliberating them for years....
 

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Given the current situation in South Africa and the way the country go, GM left before the "road apples" hit the fan big.
This.

I wish I could contradict you, but I can't. I've fortunately won the US diversity lottery so I'm hoping for a Green Card...and get the hell out of this increasingly insane country that seems to be run by people who believe US democratic party/ BLM/ Antifa talking points!
YAY

My thoughts exactly. India is not China. As much as we don't like the Communist government, they do have a master plan and economic dominance is a major part of that plan, which ultimately includes car ownership. India is a mess of corruption, broken political and judicial systems coupled with massive poverty. Because of this, India is not attracting the level of investment $$ that China did and has. Without that investment there will never be a significant portion of the population that can afford a car or a car that is more than a glorified golf cart.. If India ever gets its act together then GM will come back.
Long term, GM will be back in India. Its way too big to abandon forever. They'll wait until the market matures and car standards improve
This. They don't have much of a presence there anyway last I checked, but I AM concerned for Holden/Aus if that's their last RHD market of any note, and the writing is already on the wall for future sales in the post-domestic manufacturing era. They're going to engineer things for RHD to sell... a few thousand per year?

India has a long way to go. Daily reminder:
 

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It allows them to focus on better product. Instead of focusing time, money and energy into developing cheap cars to sell in every emerging market, GM wants to focus on the profitable markets, where higher margin products can flutter seemelssly between each other. Like China and the US for example...

I think it sounds good, then again, it could have been driven by this Greenlight shenanigans.
 

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It allows them to focus on better product. Instead of focusing time, money and energy into developing cheap cars to sell in every emerging market, GM wants to focus on the profitable markets, where higher margin products can flutter seemelssly between each other. Like China and the US for example...

I think it sounds good, then again, it could have been driven by this Greenlight shenanigans.

I understand that. But in exchange, I'd like to see GM dominate every segment it competes in. That's not happening.
 
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But they've only just started to shed the dead wood in March. This won't start bearing fruit product wise until maybe 2 years down the road.
Mike, we'll see. I've heard that story for like......30 years.
 
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