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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Cadillac's quantum leap forward appears in the details of the ATS-V.
www.gminsidenews.com
November 22, 2014
By: Mike DeMattia



Much has been written about the recently released Cadillac ATS-V coupe and sedan. And with all the publicly available information, there's still plenty that's not yet known, and so GMI used the opportunity afforded by the LAIAS to try to fill in some of those gaps. Here's what we learned:

The price of admission. Probably the worst-kept secret in the GM universe is the ATS-V's expected base price. In probing a couple of the product reps at the show with the rumored base price of $55,000, we were told that it "sounds reasonable, doesn't it?" This comment was accompanied by a wink and a nod, so take what you will from that. Assuming that pricing is reality, it's safe to assume that there will plenty of option packages available to get a loaded ATS-V close to the $70,000 range. Whatever the answer, we won't know for sure until much closer to the release of the production model.

Carbon fiber: The stuff performance is made of. It was previously known that the ATS-V would utilize a carbon fiber hood as standard equipment, but then the white coupe appearing at LAIAS showed up with this:



And this:



Interestingly, the blue sedan came only with painted black plastic on the splitter and rear valence:



As it turns out, the Cadillac will be offering a "Carbon Fiber" package, available on either the coupe or sedan. This will include the items previously mentioned, as well as a beautifully-crafted hood insert. No pricing was mentioned, but based on the cost of a more comprehensive CF package offered on the 2015 Corvette Z06, expect to pay somewhere around $2000 for the woven, light stuff.

Yes, but how fast? Cadillac is on-record as stating a 3.9 second 0-60 time for the ATS-V. GMI is able to confirm that this number was obtained with the 8-speed automatic. And while no quarter-mile figures have been released, we consulted various computer simulations that indicated the ATS-V should be a solid 12.50-12.70 car, assuming a 3700 lb curb weight, 200 lb driver, and GM's 455 HP rating is accurate. No performance information is available on the manual-equipped model.

Why 'only' 455 HP? Cadillac paid a great deal of attention to what it calls "thermal balance." Complex cooling solutions are used to remove heat from this car, so as to avoid the issues that would crop up in the previous generation CTS-V in max-effort driving. Tuning the engine for additional power is possible, but would generate more heat, which would require even more cooling to mitigate potential problems under extreme conditions. Cadillac is confident that this car can be flogged in all weather conditions at this power level without the driver receiving any scary DIC messages about things getting too hot.

What next? Here's where things get very interesting. In the discussions we had with the product gurus about a potential V+ model, possibly utilizing a Gen V LT4 small block, GMI was told by one insider that "The LT4 fits the ATS engine bay" and to "wait a few months" to see what happens. A second person attached the ATS program, when asked the same questions, was a bit more coy, saying "This one already makes 455 HP. How much more is needed?" Once again, feel free to draw whatever conclusions you like, but it does appear that Cadillac is, at least, giving serious thought to an even more powerful ATS variant.


A few observations:

The white coupe on display at the show was wearing metallic paint but had a matte quality to it. It doesn't appear to be the Crystal White Tricoat or White Diamond Tricoat we're accustomed to seeing from Cadillac. Whether this is just an effect of show lighting or an entirely new color, remains to be seen.

The Opulent Blue Metallic sedan is stunning in person, though, the model displayed was let down a bit by the lack of the carbon fiber goodies that were found on the coupe. The CF package really adds to the appearance of the ATS-V, and assuming that the cost isn't exorbitant, it would be a worthwhile addition to any of the available colors. It looks that good.

The cars were locked up and the Cadillac representatives were not permitted to open the vehicle doors or hoods. Since these are pre-production show cars, there was concern about damage to body panels due to the angles at which the cars were displayed. We did manage to get a few shots of the seat-tops, which appear below.

The 2014 Cadillac display at LAIAS has taken on a minimalistic theme of black, white and glass. It's a look that evokes Mercedes-Benz displays from years past. Ironically, the Mercedes display this year was much warmer with quite a bit of wood, serving as a subtle reminder that ultimate luxury is always a moving target.

The Cadillac floor was arranged in a way that made it nearly impossible to see the ATS-V in the same field of view as the SRX. Coincidence?

As promised, here are more shots of the ATS-V twins:























 

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I'm quite happy to hear GM DIDN'T give the engine more power and risk thermal issues. Old GM would've done that and gotten beaten up in the press.

I know there will always be the bragging rights for the fastest or most horsepower, but with today's huge HP numbers all makes are putting out it doesn't seem to matter to me so much anymore. Plus it seems that physics is getting in the way too - add another 100 hp to the ATS V, what will that get us, a couple more tenths of a second to 60? I'd rather hear this is a great, fun and BALANCED vehicle, not hard riding to get the maximum G's for bragging rights or hp overwhelming the chassis for the same bragging rights.
 

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Interesting bits about the price considering de Nysschen said it would be priced around 63K. I don't see 55K happening. A fully loaded ATS goes over 50K already and far more has been done to this car, even without adding options.

There's already videos of the engine bay on Youtube if anyone wants to search that.

I certainly hope the V does better than 12.5 - 12.7 in 1/4. Not only would it get smoked by the M3, and everyone else, it would be embarrassed. That's not even competitive with the last generation of German sports sedans, let alone the current competition. The 4000 lb Vsport with less power can do that. It better be around 12 flat give or take a tenth to be competitive.
 

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Interesting bits about the price considering de Nysschen said it would be priced around 63K. I don't see 55K happening. A fully loaded ATS goes over 50K already and far more has been done to this car, even without adding options.

There's already videos of the engine bay on Youtube if anyone wants to search that.

I certainly hope the V does better than 12.5 - 12.7 in 1/4. Not only would it get smoked by the M3, and everyone else, it would be embarrassed. That's not even competitive with the last generation of German sports sedans, let alone the current competition. The 4000 lb Vsport with less power can do that. It better be around 12 flat give or take a tenth to be competitive.

$55,000 sounds a little implausible if you ask me. $60-65,000 base sounds more realistic with a fully optioned one being $73,000+. Do they have carbon fibre brakes as an option like the M3/4?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Interesting bits about the price considering de Nysschen said it would be priced around 63K. I don't see 55K happening. A fully loaded ATS goes over 50K already and far more has been done to this car, even without adding options.

There's already videos of the engine bay on Youtube if anyone wants to search that.

I certainly hope the V does better than 12.5 - 12.7 in 1/4. Not only would it get smoked by the M3, and everyone else, it would be embarrassed. That's not even competitive with the last generation of German sports sedans, let alone the current competition. The 4000 lb Vsport with less power can do that. It better be around 12 flat give or take a tenth to be competitive.
For lack of an official time, we were reduced to plugging in weight and HP data into various calculators. And some of the outliers did return some 11.70-11.90 figures, however, it appeared that those particular calculators were using RWHP (which we don't yet know) vs. crankshaft HP. Obviously, 455 at the wheels is a huge difference from 455 at the crank, so we went with the more conservative number.

Interestingly, most of the "official tests" put the CTS V-Sport in the low 13's, so I would think that mid 12's is actually a reasonable number. Yes, I'm aware of the other site showing a 12.40 run, but that car was tuned, and we all know that can have a huge impact on a boosted vehicle.

Again, this estimate is not from Cadillac, so we'll just have to wait and see until comprehensive instrumented tests are run to get the truth.
 

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Thanks for your insight and photos..the more I see and read about the new ATS v .....the more I like it. Thanks for taking the time to delve into the product even further.

I'm sure it's a great car and 3.9 to sixty is dam quick....I bet that A8 is awesome as is the manual transmission option.

I look forward to the endless comparison tests with its German rivals....Audi, BMW Mercedes and even the latest Lexus ...

Should make for months and months of discussion.

I really see Cadillac following dan ackersons mantra of Dohc twin turbos for Cadillac and leaving the LT1 and LT4 for Chevy s version the camaro ss and zl1/z28....

Pricey products and I still believe gm should price the Cadillac products 10 percent less than the much heralded BMW (m4/3) to gain traction in the segment as the go to vehicle...

Utilize the options like carbon fiber etc to increase and even equal price points with the Germans....

I like the carbon fiber look but would never pay for it...I'm cheap and think the jewelry is for others....

I just want the go fast stuff on any of the vehicles I buy and pay for....
 
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$55,000 sounds a little implausible if you ask me. $60-65,000 base sounds more realistic with a fully optioned one being $73,000+. Do they have carbon fibre brakes as an option like the M3/4?
I agree. The M3 starts at 63k so 65k probably wouldn't happen but 55k is too low. No, it doesn't have ceramic brakes. Dave Leone said they put over 10k miles on those brakes and he defies anyone to get them to fade.

 

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Im wondering how much less power will the LT4 have in the ATS-V+. Also if the ATS-V+ sell decent enough will a 700+ hp version for the CTS-V ever be made.
 

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I'm quite happy to hear GM DIDN'T give the engine more power and risk thermal issues. Old GM would've done that and gotten beaten up in the press.

I know there will always be the bragging rights for the fastest or most horsepower, but with today's huge HP numbers all makes are putting out it doesn't seem to matter to me so much anymore. Plus it seems that physics is getting in the way too - add another 100 hp to the ATS V, what will that get us, a couple more tenths of a second to 60? I'd rather hear this is a great, fun and BALANCED vehicle, not hard riding to get the maximum G's for bragging rights or hp overwhelming the chassis for the same bragging rights.
I hope that's just a problem with the LF3/LF4 and not the LT4. I want a CTS-V with a full Z06 tune.

Interesting bits about the price considering de Nysschen said it would be priced around 63K. I don't see 55K happening. A fully loaded ATS goes over 50K already and far more has been done to this car, even without adding options.

There's already videos of the engine bay on Youtube if anyone wants to search that.

I certainly hope the V does better than 12.5 - 12.7 in 1/4. Not only would it get smoked by the M3, and everyone else, it would be embarrassed. That's not even competitive with the last generation of German sports sedans, let alone the current competition. The 4000 lb Vsport with less power can do that. It better be around 12 flat give or take a tenth to be competitive.
An ATS-V at $55k would be incredible, but I agree, implausible.

I hope it's faster, too, but it's close enough to the competitive.

http://wot.motortrend.com/1409_lexus_rc_f_0_60_quarter_mile_numbers_clocked.html

$55,000 sounds a little implausible if you ask me. $60-65,000 base sounds more realistic with a fully optioned one being $73,000+. Do they have carbon fibre brakes as an option like the M3/4?
I certainly hope not. Carbon fiber is a structural material. Ceramic is what you use for brakes.
 

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I hope that's just a problem with the LF3/LF4 and not the LT4. I want a CTS-V with a full Z06 tune.



An ATS-V at $55k would be incredible, but I agree, implausible.

I hope it's faster, too, but it's close enough to the competitive.

http://wot.motortrend.com/1409_lexus_rc_f_0_60_quarter_mile_numbers_clocked.html



I certainly hope not. Carbon fiber is a structural material. Ceramic is what you use for brakes.
I don't think its going to be a problem for the CTS-V. Much bigger engine compartment, no turbos taking up space, plus if they can make it work in the C7, the CTS should be much easier.
 

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I hope that's just a problem with the LF3/LF4 and not the LT4. I want a CTS-V with a full Z06 tune.



An ATS-V at $55k would be incredible, but I agree, implausible.

I hope it's faster, too, but it's close enough to the competitive.

http://wot.motortrend.com/1409_lexus_rc_f_0_60_quarter_mile_numbers_clocked.html



I certainly hope not. Carbon fiber is a structural material. Ceramic is what you use for brakes.
Hah my mistake!! That's what I meant... Brain fart. I was typing carbon ceramic and carbon fibre was what came out!
 

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Are any of our GMI guys still at the show? Is it possible to ask the Caddy reps why the rear spoiler on the sedan looks far more integrated to the overall design than the coupe version, which looks like a tacked-on aftermarket piece? Or is the coupe sporting some sort of optional spoiler, like Chevrolet offers on the Camaro? (Sorry if this has been asked & answered somewhere... I haven't seen it)

Thanks...
 

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I went and sat in a ATS coupe to make sure that I fit in anticipation of, possibly, owning an ATS-V coupe. In blue. With saffron interior. :eek:. Hopefully with the Recaro's I gain just a smidgen more head room.
 

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By the way, great job guys on the pictures and the article!! It is exactly the kind of article and pictures I was looking for from GMI.

Good job interrogating the GM reps at the show! :cool:
 

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Are any of our GMI guys still at the show? Is it possible to ask the Caddy reps why the rear spoiler on the sedan looks far more integrated to the overall design than the coupe version, which looks like a tacked-on aftermarket piece? Or is the coupe sporting some sort of optional spoiler, like Chevrolet offers on the Camaro? (Sorry if this has been asked & answered somewhere... I haven't seen it)

Thanks...
I believe in an article I read that the spoilers were different because of different packages. Either or would appear on the coupe or sedan.

Also don't forget the sedan has the CHMSL where as the coupe doesn't. Some considerations had to be made for it.
 
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