GM Inside News Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,279 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
GMI News: Around the Industry
By: TaHoE
Possible Engine Choices for Solstice GT/GTP/GXP

As we all know by now, the Pontiac Solstice (at least the base version) will be powered by a 2.4L Ecotec I-4 Naturally Aspirated engine. This engine produces 170HP, however Lori Queen is hoping that they can eek close to 180HP out of the unit. That said, this leaves us with a dilema, surely the 2.4L is competitive in the segment with its excellent fuel economy and power compared to the Miata, but this is Pontiac, we want excitement, right? Well at the 2004 NAIAS, GM produced two other vehicles under the Kappa umbrella, the Saturn Curve and the Chevrolet Nomad. Both the Nomad and Curve feature the 2.2L engine that will power the base Chevrolet Cobalt that will debut this fall, however these two concepts had two different messages behind them. The Curve is powered by a Supercharged 2.2L Ecotec which makes an impressive 230HP (80 More Horsepower than the NA 2.2L). The Nomad however uses a Turbocharger and eeks out 250HP (100 More Horsepower than the NA 2.2L!!!). These are huge gains and when taken into the 'Solstice's Perspective', that means that by using the 2.2L engine in the GT/GTP/or GXP engines they can gain between 60 and 80 more Horsepower than the base Solstice. My prediction for the Solstice models is as follows:

Base: 2.4L Ecotec @ 170HP
GT: Supercharged 2.2L Ecotec @ ~220HP
GTP: Turbocharged 2.2L Ecotec @ ~250HP
GXP: Turbocharged 2.4L Ecotec @ ~270HP

These are all feasible:
Base: Numbers already announced
GT: Engine used in the Curve concept (Supercharged 2.0L Ecotec I-4 could be used instead [Same engine will go into the Cobalt Supercharged SS, and is rumored to have near 220HP)
GTP: Engine used in the Nomad concept
GXP: previous turbocharger gains in the 2.2L netted +100HP, these same results could be applied to a larger engine which would be more willing to accept the turbocharger.

...Honestly, how cool would it be to have a 270HP Solstice (Do I smell a Z4 Slayer?) probably not because the Z4M will use the 3-series' I-6 which makes something like 333HP, but then again the Z4M will cost several thousands more.

--------------------
NSAP Opinion: Kansas City Auto Show Review

Well, its auto show time again. Like every year I attend the Kansas City Auto Show just this weekend. Out of the 4 times I have been to the show this year's show was hands-down the best yet. I spent 4 hours in Bartle Hall looking and talking about cars, so I have a lot to tell about.
I'll start off with GM. At the show GM had the LaCrosse, Terazza, CTS-V, Equinox, Canyon AT4, GTO, Ion Red Line, some performance Grand AM, Envoy XUV, and every other GM vehicle. First booth was Chevrolet, and it seemed that the SSR, Equinox, and Malibu generated the most buzz at Chevrolet. I think the Malibu garnered alot of attention because it is built right here in Kansas City. I was in complete shock over the Equinox, I had absolutly no complaints about it! Then over at Buick they had a white LaCrosse, which looks soooo much better in person. Surprisingly though, the Terazza got the most attention. I qoute one guy looking at it, "That is a very sharp looking vehicle". But you have to consider that the Terazza was the only CSV there, which is probably why the Terazza got alot of attention.
Then there was Pontiac. The new GTO definitely caused the biggest vibe at Pontiac. Also, when I was looking at the GTO I heard a Pontiac Rep. Telling some guy that the 2005 GTO will be all new.
Then there was poor Oldsmobile. They were the deadest GM brand there. They had 3 production vehicles and a 1934 Olds. There was verrtually no one looking at the disply, and all the brochure holders were filled with peoples trash.
Cadillac was really full of people, the CTS-V was b-e-a-utiful!!! They also had 5 SRX's there, which was go because those vehicles were always full with guests.
Maybach had a 62 at the show. All that I can say about it is.....WOW!! The sticker on it was an astonishing $377,000, and likewise the closest you could get to the car was about ten feet.


My Auto Show Awards:
Most attention graber: Ford GT--They actually had Bill Ford's personal GT.

Most positive comments: Buick Terazza

Most organized brand booth: Scion-- they had an awesome disply and gave out awesome metal keychians and huge brochures. Oh ya, and antenna toppers.

Most buzz: Maybach 62




Other Pictures:

Chevrolet Bel Air Concept





Ford 427 Concept




2005 Ford Mustang




2005 Ford Escape Hybrid




Saturn Ion Red Line





GMC Envoy XUV





GMC Canyon AT4





Pontiac American Tuner Grand Am





Buick LaCrosse





Buick Terazza





CTS-V





1934 Oldsmobile

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,872 Posts
If GM was to come up with a GXP version I think they will use a 230 hp V-6 supercharged rather than the 250 hp.
----
Oh, yeah NSAP. There goes another retro vehicle, the Chevy Bel-Air that was sure to make a hit. They come out with breathtaking concepts but they will never come to the market. :(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,854 Posts
I've seen the Maybach in several venues (last year's New York Auto Show, on the road in Newport, and most recently on display (with salesperson) in Harrod's of London), and I never really see anyone paying much attention to it. In NY, the Sixteen garnered much more attention (several layers deep of people around it), as did the Bentley GT, though part of the attention may have been because a famous athlete was closely inspecting it. In Newport, I noticed no one checking out the Maybach slowly driving by (understated elegance?). And in Harrod's, whose clientele can clearly afford a Maybach or two, I was the only person checking out the Maybach. IMO, the Maybach is not so special, but apparently my opinion doesn't really matter; at least the first year's production is accounted for, no?

On a nonsequitur note, I'm curious, do people really believe that the Solstice will be powered by 250+ hp engines?! I'm a bit skeptical. While it certainly would be nice to have a Kappa car motivated by that kind of power, it seems in reality the USA will have to be satiated by 170-220 hp engines, despite what the Ecotec is capable of and what has been on display at recent auto shows. I can remember many 300+ hp versions of supercharged and turbocharged 3800 V-6s displayed in a variety of Buicks over the years, yet the highest we've seen in production is this year's Pontiac's 3800 Gen III supercharged at 260-hp.

Irrespective of the power, I think the Solstice is still a winner, and I'm happy to see that Pontiac's building it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,493 Posts
what's the Bel Air doing there? that was a couple of years ago. maybe it will be built off of the kappa or zeta (I hope so) I love that car
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,279 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Originally posted by gmwsag@Mar 21 2004, 10:59 AM
If GM was to come up with a GXP version I think they will use a 230 hp V-6 supercharged rather than the 250 hp.
----
Oh, yeah NSAP. There goes another retro vehicle, the Chevy Bel-Air that was sure to make a hit. They come out with breathtaking concepts but they will never come to the market. :(
In Solstice's press pack, it states that GM designed Kappa around the EcoTec engines. Similar to how Chrysler designed the ME around its engine. Therefore Kappa won't support any engines beyond a 4-cylinder. And if GM wants to get it right, YES they should offer a 250HP GXP.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
I don't buy these results, there is no way by any means will GM offer such a large jump between the base and the GT. There is also no way we will see 270hp or even close to that in the solstice.

These are what I think we will see in the production version:

170hp
180hp
200hp
220hp

In all honesty I think that anything over 220hp is really pushing it and I'm 99% sure there will be nothing even close to 270hp in a car like the solstice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
id love to see Chevy come out with the Bel Air..all theyd have to do is build it off the kappa platform and put in a 3.8 supercharged engine from the Grand Prix GTP and put it between the Monte Carlo SS and Corvette price range and itll sell fabulously well ) build it chevy and DESTROY MUSTANG sales haha
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,307 Posts
I think 4 seperate engine choices are too many. Does any other car (not truck) offer so many choices? 3 is generally the most I've seen. (Yes, there are exceptions).

In a low volume car, I can't see 4 engine choices or trim levels.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,963 Posts
I agree with Rex, and as much as I would like a 270hp turbo 2.4, I dont see it happening. The Solstice was passed by GM Brass because it was by and large a parts bin car. It used proven and existing parts in a fancy wrapper.
Now there is no turbo 2.4, so I dont see that coming
The supercharged 2.0 only makes 205hp in the Ion and I dont see that getting any bigger in the Cobalt.
There is the turbo 2.2 in the Saab, but is there a rule that taking from saab is bad? Id like to replace all the supercharged 2.0's with turbo 2.2's for the cobalt, ion and id like to see a upgraded, 240hp turbo 2.2 up from the 210 in the saab.
So, If I had my way, and I had my hands into the powertrain pot, I would give teh Solstice a base engine of 180hp out of the 2.4. Then for a GT model I just see minor suspension and appearance upgrades. As for the GXP model, a turbocharged 250+ 2.2 model with larger brakes, stiffer suspension, different gear ratio, close ratio 5spd, larger wheels, tuned exhaust, etc etc. I see the GXP costing 25k.
And if GM is going to turbocharge the car, Id like to see a forged crank, rods and pistons. I belive the 2.0 supercharged engine has a forged crank and rods, but for real performance, and a cool little sales line, have the rotating assembly forged.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,963 Posts
Originally posted by mackingu@Mar 21 2004, 11:04 PM
there's no turbo 2.2 at Saab.
ha, could have swarn the 9-3's had a 2.2 turbo...
it has a 2.0 turbo that makes 210hp... better then the 205 in the supercharged 2.0.
And where does the 2.3 come from in the 9-5?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,551 Posts
Well, I do believe in those predictions, the G6 will have 4 engine options, so it's credible
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
396 Posts
Originally posted by bigals87z28+Mar 22 2004, 12:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bigals87z28 @ Mar 22 2004, 12:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-mackingu@Mar 21 2004, 11:04 PM
there's no turbo 2.2 at Saab.
ha, could have swarn the 9-3's had a 2.2 turbo...
it has a 2.0 turbo that makes 210hp... better then the 205 in the supercharged 2.0.
And where does the 2.3 come from in the 9-5? [/b][/quote]
the 2.0L is universally shared for the ION/Cobalt/Opels/SAAB

the 2.3L is a Saab leftover from back in the day. i'm guessing it's going bye-bye sooner or later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
The way GM has been releasing their horsepower figures as of late, it would not surprise me if the Solstice magically gets a 5-10 HP bump as it's release date nears.

There will not be 4 trim levels. If anything, the top of the line GXP will have 250 HP turbo 4 and then the year after (2008) it'll get a bump to like 270 (just like Dodge did with thier SRT-4).

However I know for a fact it won't have a v6 or a v8, ever. Those engines are saved for the upcoming Sigma-Lite cars they are making (i.e. new gen GTO, camaro, etc.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
524 Posts
I don't know why they'd bump displacement in the Turbo and Supercharged applications. They made a forged crank for the 2.0, the 2.2 would require a new crank. It's alot easier to get power from other areas in a forced induction engine. My guess is the Supercharged 2.0 is detuned anyway.

-T
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Just for comparison, the chevy cobalt also soon to arrive from GM using variations of the ecotec motor, it is listed on the chevy.com website as having:

"Three spirited ECOTEC engine choices: 2.2L, 2.4L or 2.0L Supercharged

Three specially tuned suspension options

Four wheel options: from 15" to 18"

Three transmissions available

Available all-speed Traction Control System"



That's not bad for a small car, lots of choices from economy to sportiness. I presume that the Solstice could also share these engine options/variations, so 2-3 engine choices isn't that much of a stretch imho.

here's the link: http://www.chevrolet.com/cobalt/
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top