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I am going to open a very controversial topic, for the car world at least. There is one simple question to ask: does GM still need GMC? There are thousands of answers to that question. The question really makes you ponder, I mean; GMC is basically a clone of Chevrolet trucks, is it not? Sure, they add some “Professional Grade” materials and tweak the styling a bit, but is that enough in this growing automotive market? I am going to throw a few scenarios at you, then you decide.
Basically GMC is in excitant so Pontiac-Buick dealers have trucks and SUV’s to sell. Which used to be great and still is…a little. With imports such as Nissan and Honda entering the ever growing truck market, the old re-badged Sierra, Yukon, Envoy, and now Canyon seem to be too much like Chevrolet! GM: it is time to start coming up with a NEW design for EVERY brand that uses the chassis!
Here is a scenario. Make GMC the commercial/fleet brand. Then to fill the gap of trucks with Pontiac and Buick, give them the trucks and SUV’s! If GM did that, Pontiac could cover the performance trucks and SUV’s. then Buick would cover the luxury part of the trucks and SUV’s. Can you imagine: a Pontiac truck to compete with the Ford Lightening, Dodge SRT-10!!! Or a Buick full-size SUV! Say what you want, but people really are starting to want Buick and Pontiac to enter new market segments.
I didn’t do this article to thrash GMC. I just wrote what I thought/think might happen when it comes to GMC.


Post your hopes thoughts of what should happen to the brand
 

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i would like it to stay the same as it is now, except for minor changes, keep the slightly extra luxo features you find in the gmc, maybe make them a little more caddyish, but not over do it to make it too expensive, then give it its own style, completely. so you cant tell its a chevy. maybe make more of an envoy face on the fullsize. not exact but that theme. put some stacked headlights, and keep the side by sides for chevy. hey maybe give it an emblem, keep the big red GMC but have something like a silver ovel around it or somthing. i dont know just a thought. o yeah and they need there own kappa car.
 

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they can use GMC as the truck tech company, put new ideas into it to make sure it works, then put it in the chevy if it passes the civilian tests. like side mounted doors on the bed. cubby holes. convertable top? rearview camera? power rear window? kind of like they did with quadrasteer, put it on the gmc first, see if it works with people, then give it to chevy the next year if its good enouph.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Weel see, we have caddy to fill the lux of trucks, and Chevrolet to fill...uhh...regular trucks...

So, GMC is not THAT needed ;)
 

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no but they would make for a good... buick version of the truck fleet. kind of in between so you can still go offroad, but you can be comfertable when cruising. and really most people could care less about some stuff if you put it in a caddy, but if you put it in a gmc it may get used more. like side doors on the truck bed.

but i do agree, they are in a tight spot if they dont identify themselfs. ive owned a few gmc's, and i love them, i would hate to see them go.
 

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I've been asking this same question for a while. In my opinion GM should dissolve the GMC brand (or even move it to a commercial level like you said) and create a Chevy Trucks division. You could then give a Chevy Trucks division to all former GMC dealers (where it makes sense of course). Initially this would cost a little bit of dough, but long term I think it would save money. I don't think it would cause the headache that the Olds division simply because you are replacing the product with and equal product.
 

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I like the thought about GMC being the test tube for GM's Truck technologie. Quadrasteer was a good first for the truck market. Member the Sy/Ty's. i beleive its was a 280hp 4.3Lv-6 turbo and intercooled. AWD!!! build this truck into the Canyon and you got a sure winner. GM should use the GMC division for this kind of stuff. the thought of a Pontiac truck sounds as strange as saying the aztek is a nice SUV. making a buick truck sounds redundant cause of the caddy trucks.

i thnk GMC should be the GM guieny for technologie.
 

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I agree, I don't see the point of GMC at the consumer-level anymore. Perhaps as a commercial truck business, but right now it's just a clone of Chevy trucks/SUVs. It doesn't really serve the parent company that well to have three truck brands. Limit your trucks to one brand (or two if you really want to dilute the Hummer brand that much, but it will go the way of GMC in a few decades if you do that). If you want a performance truck, then make it a Chevy. Pontiac to me has always been about coupes and sedans. SUVs, I guess, are OK, as long as they're different from the Chevy versions. Honestly, it benefits no-one to have multiple versions of the exact same truck from different brands. Wouldn't you all like to see GM have the best-selling vehicle one year? It won't likely happen if GM keeps the big seller (the full-size pickup) split between two brands. 2004 is going to be an interesting year for the fs pickup market, however, with the F-150 probably setting new yearly sales records because of the continuous great press coverage. In '03, the truck was really only at dealerships for three to four months. As was mentioned in other articles here, though, it's tough to compare the Silverado with the F-150 in a lot of ways... it's a very aging platform, and while definately solid, it shows its age in a lot of ways. As a friend of mine who knows next to nothing about cars or trucks said, "If I were going to buy a truck, it would be that new Ford. That truck just looks awesome!" Now, obviously, looks don't sell many trucks, but she is someone who would rather own a Honda Civic than 99% of the cars on the road.... so it could conceivably get her into a dealership to at least look at the truck... and then decide, "oh, I guess I could test-drive that new Focus/Five-Hundred/etc". What's going to draw people into a Chevy dealership? The SSR? Maybe, but I'm not expecting much out of that.
 

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There was/is already another thread with the exact same topic in discussion. Several of us just posted on it today. This is the problem with this forum. So many categories that duplication exists all over the place, and regular users cannot start a new topic. Now we have at least two identical GMC threads running at the same time. I don't have time to read through them all. I enjoy discussion with some of the people here, but I'm losing interest because disorganization of the forum. Other sites do it better. Like GM, you can make it better, or you can watch members go elsewhere. I offered some suggestions to an admin a while ago. Never got a reply, never saw any improvement.

Minimize categories, let people start threads at will. I've been in many of these. That's how the good ones all work. Not 40-odd categories and a million sub-categories to sift through.
 

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I can see how some people would not get the fact that GMC IS needed. GMC is one part of Pontiac, they are essentially one division, and hence they both have the same executives running both divisions.

If anything, I think the Pontiac line up needs to be trimmed (Vibe, Montana, Aztek, and any other crossover or SUV) and add more cars to the line up. I think GMC should expand and add the trimmed lines to the GMC division. I think GMC should continue as an upscale form of Chevy truck with the same kind of performance philosophies that dictate Pontiac.

I think Cadillac should move up to the true luxury automaker and ditch trying to compete with BMW, that is a performance company perfect target for Pontiac. I think pitting the next Envoy against the X5 would be a good direction, with the Bonneville leading towards the 7 series. I am not saying that Pontiac needs to be moved into the stratospheric price range that BMW covers, but I think that Pontiac–GMC could do a number on them if it was planned right.

I think there should be little if any price overlap of GMC, Chevy, and Cadillac’s SUV price range, and I feel that GM needs as many divisions as possible to recreate the true stair step system that made GM what it was….not how it is. I know for a fact that in Texas at least, GMCs are super popular, and most people who do drive them are either financially unable to purchase or are turned off by the Cadillac styling, but would not be caught dead driving a Chevy.

GMC is needed, but some one made a good point, maybe GM should consider making a separate division just for generic knockoffs of other divisions cars with relatively drab styling for commercial vehicles, which would if controlled right, eliminate poor resale values.
 

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GMC is one of GM's top sellers. Getting rid of it would decrease GM's sales because it is not clear if eveyone would buy a Chevy instead. Because there are always the idots that do not realize that Chevy and GMC are the same. I think they should keep it as long as the sales keep going good.
 

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Originally posted by desmo9@Feb 17 2004, 03:48 AM
There was/is already another thread with the exact same topic in discussion. Several of us just posted on it today. This is the problem with this forum. So many categories that duplication exists all over the place, and regular users cannot start a new topic. Now we have at least two identical GMC threads running at the same time. I don't have time to read through them all. I enjoy discussion with some of the people here, but I'm losing interest because disorganization of the forum. Other sites do it better. Like GM, you can make it better, or you can watch members go elsewhere. I offered some suggestions to an admin a while ago. Never got a reply, never saw any improvement.

Minimize categories, let people start threads at will. I've been in many of these. That's how the good ones all work. Not 40-odd categories and a million sub-categories to sift through.
if you let people make there own catagories you end up with a supercars.net with 90 thousand members 90% under 16 years old that think they know everything. this site is very close to an offcial site, and that is what i like about it, it is more reliable, when they say something 85% of the time its true. that way we get the news first, and when they are wrong, o well its not a problem because it doesnt happen often, i like this more than people like motortrend that are right almost all the time because at least with these GMI you get it about 2 weeks sooner. and if you let everyone make topics then your opening the site up for more bashing and more angry people, something that isnt on this site, another good thing.

and lets not forget embargoes, gmi follows them and we normally dont, so im sure many embargoed photos would be put here if they had open forums.
 

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Pontiac needs a truck like Cadillac needs a hybrid car.

Pontiac is known for its cars, keep it at cars. The last thing consumers want is more chevy/pontiac reskinning, camaro/firebird anybody? The truck market is to generic as it is, almost every single one has the same design...*yawn* to trucks in general.
 

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I posted the topic "GMC - What's the Point?" in the "Truck Talk" Discussion Area a few days ago. There are some great comments there.

The reason I asked the question is that I'm from Australia and down here we've got only Holden and Isuzu (medium duty trucks and up) to look after GM's car and truck fortunes. (I don't count Daewoo, Suzuki and Saab as mainstream GM brands). I appreciate that GM's many brands in the US have been positioned to appel to to different markets, but I couldn't see how GMC fitted into the big picture.
 

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GMC is definately needed, if anything should happen it should be gmc making ALL the trucks for gm and letting chevy stick to cars. Segment their brands a little better without duplicating them.
 

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I agree, I don't see the point of GMC at the consumer-level anymore. Perhaps as a commercial truck business, but right now it's just a clone of Chevy trucks/SUVs. It doesn't really serve the parent company that well to have three truck brands.


There are may differences from Chevrolets to GMC's. For example the Envoy shares no exterior parts, with the possible exeptions of the roof and door stampings. There are completley different dashboards and interior trim levels. Plus GMC has models that are not available in the Chevrolet lineup. The Denali models, the Savana PRO, the Envoy XUV.

True that the Canyon and the Colorado are similar, but so what, so where the Sonoma and S10, the S10 and the S-15, and so on and so forth.

Why complain, GMC has been sharing truck with Chevrolet for the past 40 years.
The Jimmy and the Blazers, hell even the GMC and Chevrolet Suburban shared the same name for 20+ years.

GM has 2 truck brands, Chevrolet and GMC. Other divisions have SUV's and crossovers in their line up, but the only 2 with true trucks are Chevrolet and GMC.
There is no reason to get rid of GMC, first of all, since Pontiac-GMC is one division now, esentially they are the second Chevrolet, but with more intersting cars and trucks, also GMC, when not combined with Pontiac, gives other GM dealers a truck line to sell. Buick and GMC dealerships or Cadillac and GMC dealerships do exist because in that particular market there already may be a Chevrolet dealership, and this can provide that dealership with additional revenue and more customers to GM.

Plus, there will always be some people who would rather have the big red GMC logo on the front of their truck.

Right now there is more differentation between GMC and Chevrolet that there ever has been before.

Why cant GM sell 2 truck lines? If both are profitable and help bring customers in?
Is it ok for Ford to sell 3 versions of the Explorer? 2 of the F150? 2 of the Escape?
Nissan to sell 2 versions of the Armada? Honda to sell the MDX and Pilot, and nevermind Toyota, with 2 versions of the 4 Runner, 2 versions of the Highlander, 2 versions of the Land Cruiser...etc.....etc


Please! people stop suggesting that the cure for all of GM's problems is to drop Buick, Ponitiac, GMC, Saturn, and leave just Chevrolet and Cadillac, and then replace all the models with Opels and Holdens, ok! not gonna happen!
 

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It seems like customers have already voiced their opinions about whether or not GMC is relevant: GMC sold 578,783 vehicles in 2003, which represented a 3.2% increase in a down market. And GMC has had 10 annual sales records in the last 11 years. That to me spells relevance. I doubt very much if there would be a 100% conquest rate if GM evaporated GMC and attempted to shift everyone to Chevy for their trucks (or Caddy for luxury trucks). In the end, there are lots of people who find GMC relevant, and it's a bright spot in a somewhat struggling company. In this case, splintering market niches seems to work.

Anecdotal evidence: ever since my uncle was in trade school, he has depended on his GMC trucks (he still has his first light blue GMC pickup with over 300,000 very hard miles on it!) for work and in some cases play. Last year, he purchased 14 GMC trucks! He has never owned a Chevy, even though he fully admits that they are mechanically identical. He prefers the service of his GMC dealership and the subtlely different, more upscale look/appeal to GMC trucks. And I'm not so certain that he would switch to Chevy if GMC ceased to exist. Strange but true. And he's mentioned this sentiment when I've broached the subject with him: "Why would they want to get rid of GMC? They make great trucks!"
 

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Originally posted by MCGARRETT@Feb 17 2004, 06:12 AM


Right now there is more differentation between GMC and Chevrolet  that there ever has been before.

Absolutely false. As outlined in the other active GMC thread, vintage GMCs often had unique hoods and grilles as they do today. But decades ago (pre-1970), instrument panels differed, engines were altogether unique, suspension and drivetrain were unique. Very different trucks compared to their Chevy counterparts. Chevy became the truck for families or people who needed a truck for basic transportation in addition to workload. GMC was a tougher, more work-focused truck. I agree that GMC has relevance and should remain a part of GM's truck lineup, but I also believe GM could differentiate the brand more where it matters to truck buyers... as was once the case. I don't really dig GMC's luxury stance, because Chevy and Cadillac have alot of that already covered. GMC has had to wedge itself into the luxury gap separating Chevy trucks and Cadillac trucks (and it's a small gap).

Ford has been successful at marketing the SuperDuty line as a unique set of trucks. They have little in common with the regular-duty F-series. There is crossover... some people use regular duty for work and SuperDuty for regular use, so any buyer can choose either package. But the Superduty is a tougher and tougher-looking package that sems to appeal to contractors, wanna-be tough guys, and so forth. I think GMC should be GM's SuperDuty and Chevy should retain regular duty. Will it happen? No, because Chevy dealers want a full spectrum to go up against eveerything Ford sells. This is GM's problem with brand management... Every brand has to have a full range of product to shut up a whiney dealer network. As a result, it is becoming difficult to distinguish Chevy's purpose from GMC's.
 

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Absolutely false. As outlined in the other active GMC thread, vintage GMCs often had unique hoods and grilles as they do today. But decades ago (pre-1970), instrument panels differed, engines were altogether unique, suspension and drivetrain were unique. Very different trucks compared to their Chevy counterparts.

Absolutley False, on your end.

Do your homework, going all the way back to pre 1960, you will find that Chevrolet and GMC share the same platform and bodyshell, the only differences are that some years GMC's have 4 headlights and Chevrolets have 2. True that GMC did pioneer some ideas, such as an available V6 in a full size truck, which they offered from the early 60's on. During the 1950 and early 1960 GMC did use some Pontiac V8's in their trucks an did have their own engine lines, but to really find any significant differences from Chevrolet and GMC you would have to go back to the 1930's and 1940's. They were least different from 1973 to 1998 versions, which were basically identical except for the grille insert. The current model does not share any of the front components with the Chevrolet.
 

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I usually don't just write off discussions, but it's not worth my time debating something that's not subjective. On this subject, you appear to be a knows not that knows not.

Just 4 headlights vs 2, huh? Humorous.

But you know, let's do something fun, stooping where I've not stooped in a while. Let's just flat out prove a guy wrong. When I am misguided about facts I admit it, but I really can't tolerate folks that are too arrogant to do that. Your point and I quote, was "Right now there is more differentation between GMC and Chevrolet that there ever has been before. "

Let's just pull a year, say 1965, and compare it to 2004. (looking at Chevy vs GMC light-duty pickups)

1965 and 2004: different grille, headlight treatment, marker lights, and different hood. very different appearance in front.

1965 and 2004: different colors and fabric textures

1965 and 2004: different wheel sets

2004: what else? We have same interior, same engine family, ... I guess the GMC offeres the Denali with a different AWD setup. But then, in 1965 Chevy went more upscale than GMC did, and offered different drivetrain packages, too.

1965:
body trim very different. Chevy offers two tones, different stainless. You could easily tell a Chevy from a GMC just by the side profile. Almost impossible today.

unique instrument panel stampings and altogether different gage package

powertrain vastly different. Chevy features the small block V8, GMC features the big-block V6 in 305 and 351 ci sizes, which is a lower-speed, high torque engine family designed just for trucks. Has incredibly high durability standards. The only overlap in Chev/GMC engines is that the basic I6 is available on both.

There are other subtleties I don't even have to go into (from unique tailgates, to suspension and trans/diff options) Your quoted statement is absolutely false, as I said earlier. There were indeed other eras in which GMC to Chevy differentiation was greater than it is today, and the differentiation was mostly where it matters to truck buyers -- under the sheetmetal.
 
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