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My point with the BMW example is that it doesn't take a "perfect combination of bad luck" (as you said) for an ICE fire. All engineered products have design weaknesses and failure modes and those show up in all products with some non-zero probability.
And my comment was..............

Majority on car fires, I've seen with ICE are battery related.......... "Short to ground"
Whatever is going on with BMW doesn't refute my experience, nor doesn't it refute my larger opinion.

That year-range and series of BMW/Engine combination, obviously had a design issue of some sort.

At 12 volts it takes a perfect combination of "bad luck" to have an issue, at 240 volts, it only takes "bad luck" (of any kind) to have a "situation".
My point here was most short to grounds, in 12 volt systems, smolder/smoke a little, burn a few wires, quit running, what-have-you, but with 20x the voltage? Things tend to happen a lot faster and severe.

There's clearly a design flaw with the LG batteries as well. Bolts and Hyundai Ioniq/Konas (prior to replacing the batteries) have been much more prone to fires than any other modern EV.
Right, presumably, these are fires are INSIDE the battery assembly, I've never saw a lead-acid battery spontaneously combust, ever.
- I have no idea what is going on with the LG Batteries, or the Bolt/Kona fires.
 
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Make sure you park it outside the Mother-In-Laws house, or preferably in her garage to help keep it warm, the thermal runaway in the garage will help keep the rest of house warm in the Winter.

I thought the general basic idea behind making cars is you sold them at a tidy profit not at a huge loss, how many of these old 2017-19 cars have GM been buying them back, giving their owners a brand new 2021 replacement for free, that's a great deal for the buyers can't see what they are complaining about? It's the future profitability of a car company that operates like this, is all that l find a little bit worrying, you have to sell to cars with $9,000 loss on the roof to make one true car sale, that GM count as two sales.

Just buy a decent fire blanket to starve it of oxygen, it will help you sleep a bit better with the Bolt parked outside the house.

 

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And my comment was..............
Right, presumably, these are fires are INSIDE the battery assembly, I've never saw a lead-acid battery spontaneously combust, ever.
- I have no idea what is going on with the LG Batteries, or the Bolt/Kona fires.
Probably that ex Ford Pinto designer got a job in South Korea designing the batteries Ed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Probably that ex Ford Pinto designer got a job in South Korea designing the batteries Ed?


The Ford Pinto models complied with the US Government鈥檚 crash testing and other standards when they were manufactured.

Virtually all vehicles manufactured in the USA until the late 1970鈥檚 or early 1980鈥檚, had the fuel tank mounted under the vehicle, rearward of the rear axle assembly, with the fuel filler tube behind the rear license place holder.

Several exceptions were the GM pickup trucks and the Ford Ranchero, which had the fuel tank mounted on the side of the cargo bed - and easily damaged in a side-impact crash.

It was not unusual for the fuel tanks in the 1950鈥檚 and 1960鈥檚 and 1970鈥檚 to develop pinhole leaks due to corrosion of the tanks from the inside out. Mounting straps would corrode and break, dropping the fuel tank onto the ground while the vehicle was in motion.
 

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The Ford Pinto models complied with the US Government鈥檚 crash testing and other standards when they were manufactured.

Virtually all vehicles manufactured in the USA until the late 1970鈥檚 or early 1980鈥檚, had the fuel tank mounted under the vehicle, rearward of the rear axle assembly, with the fuel filler tube behind the rear license place holder.

Several exceptions were the GM pickup trucks and the Ford Ranchero, which had the fuel tank mounted on the side of the cargo bed - and easily damaged in a side-impact crash.

It was not unusual for the fuel tanks in the 1950鈥檚 and 1960鈥檚 and 1970鈥檚 to develop pinhole leaks due to corrosion of the tanks from the inside out. Mounting straps would corrode and break, dropping the fuel tank onto the ground while the vehicle was in motion.
People forget that the lawsuit that started the whole Pinto discussion was over some teenage girls were killed in a Pinto that was struck while stopped by a full sized car going over 50 mph. The fire didn't help but they had life threatening injuries from the collision and likely would have died anyway. How many cars from that era used the top of the fuel tank for the floor of the trunk? Lots.
 

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Make sure you park it outside the Mother-In-Laws house, or preferably in her garage to help keep it warm, the thermal runaway in the garage will help keep the rest of house warm in the Winter.

I thought the general basic idea behind making cars is you sold them at a tidy profit not at a huge loss, how many of these old 2017-19 cars have GM been buying them back, giving their owners a brand new 2021 replacement for free, that's a great deal for the buyers can't see what they are complaining about? It's the future profitability of a car company that operates like this, is all that l find a little bit worrying, you have to sell to cars with $9,000 loss on the roof to make one true car sale, that GM count as two sales.

Just buy a decent fire blanket to starve it of oxygen, it will help you sleep a bit better with the Bolt parked outside the house.

Let's see, yooj giant faahr blanket, check; on-call four fire guys in full tilt boogie gear with oxygen, check, caah paahked in middle of empty paahkin' lot, check; OR, just buy an ICE. Checkmate.

I like how the blankey suppressed the faahr. Not sure how that would work in a garage or even in the yaahd.
 

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Probably that ex Ford Pinto designer got a job in South Korea designing the batteries Ed?
Yes, that must be it! How old do you think he is now?

I bet he retires soon and as soon as that happens, this will all stop happening!
 
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People forget that the lawsuit that started the whole Pinto discussion was over some teenage girls were killed in a Pinto that was struck while stopped by a full sized car going over 50 mph. The fire didn't help but they had life threatening injuries from the collision and likely would have died anyway. How many cars from that era used the top of the fuel tank for the floor of the trunk? Lots.
That Pinto also had a full tank of gas, and no gas cap. The driver had just stopped for gas, and placed the gas cap on the roof of the car. Then drove away. Apparently, the occupants must have heard it fall off, and they pulled over, or went back around, looking for it.
 

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Yes, that must be it! How old do you think he is now?

I bet he retires soon and as soon as that happens, this will all stop happening!
PROBLEM SOLVED! Thanks, Ed. You've lit a new lamp of wisdom and information on this matter.

That Pinto also had a full tank of gas, and no gas cap. The driver had just stopped for gas, and placed the gas cap on the roof of the car. Then drove away. Apparently, the occupants must have heard it fall off, and they pulled over, or went back around, looking for it.
Holy moly. Screw-ups pile up and then it ends in an absolute nightmare. I can't imagine a worse end.
 
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That Pinto also had a full tank of gas, and no gas cap. The driver had just stopped for gas, and placed the gas cap on the roof of the car. Then drove away. Apparently, the occupants must have heard it fall off, and they pulled over, or went back around, looking for it.
And the Ford Pinto never had the filler pipe behind the license plate. But my '72 Torino did!

Ford initially thought they'd easily win the court case since the Pinto passed all the regs, had a comparable safety record to other compacts, and the driver's actions contributed greatly to the occupants' deaths.

Then they found out that they were losing big time in the "court of public opinion". Ford settled, and launched a voluntary recall campaign. The recall added a plastic shield on the rear differential (gas tank pushed forward could be punctured by it's bolts), as well as utilizing the longer filler pipe (from the Pinto wagon) which stuck into the tank further (less likely to pull out in a collision).
 

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Even then, the brand was tainted. So when the redesigned new Pinto came out, it was called Escort, not Pinto.
 

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It wasn't just a change of name - the 1st-generation Escort (US) was a version of the 3rd-generation Escort (Euro) - replacing the Pinto but unrelated to it.
Obviously. Pinto was RWD, and the Escort was FWD. Certainly no simple "refresh", but it WAS going to be named Pinto. The Erika platform, Ford's attempt at a "world" car, to be built and sold all over the world.

Then there was the hugely embarrassing Ford Escort EXP, a 2 door, 2 seat "sporty" Escort. When the early prototypes were made, we didn't know any official name, and called it "Eric the Frog". There was even a green prototype running around.
 

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Started a new thread for this one................. "Story Developing"

 
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