[Exploder]

Can you judge GM's performance by the amount of critics it has and how harsh they are? The critics can be anywhere from the scathing but caring kind and the kind that just wants GM to die and cease to exist for their "crimes" in the 1970s and 80s.

 

[PA Dweller]

The critics are largely morons, most of them know squat about GM and continuously cite past errors. I don't understand the group of critics that want GM to die, if you don't like their products don't buy it. Why wish them failure?

 

[eurohazard]

I swear to God some of the biggest "critics" of GM I have ever seen in my life are members of this forum! Take it as you like, but it's quite true.

 

[tirediron]

Completely Agree!
So many negative haters here.

 

[throwback]

I am a critic of GM's performance. I want them to thrive and continue to provide good paying jobs in the USA. The fact is GM's managment has done a terrible job for years. They have shown very little foresight, they have a new restructuring plan every 6 months it seems. Now the latest rumor is adding Saturn to BPG. What will that accomplish? GM supposedly was doing away with product overlap and badge engineering, but we have the Acadia/Outlook/Traverse. We have Cobalt/G5. We have GM selling 5(!) midsize cars while Toyota and Honda sell one, and GM still can't outsell the Camry or Accord. I own GM stock and a GM car, should I just stick my head in the sand and believe everything will be okay?

 

[PMC the 1st]

I am a critic of GM's performance. I want them to thrive and continue to provide good paying jobs in the USA. The fact is GM's managment has done a terrible job for years. They have shown very little foresight, they have a new restructuring plan every 6 months it seems. Now the latest rumor is adding Saturn to BPG. What will that accomplish? GM supposedly was doing away with product overlap and badge engineering, but we have the Acadia/Outlook/Traverse. We have Cobalt/G5. We have GM selling 5(!) midsize cars while Toyota and Honda sell one, and GM still can't outsell the Camry or Accord. I own GM stock and a GM car, should I just stick my head in the sand and believe everything will be okay?

This specimen is a prefiect example. He complains about badge-engineering when the badge-engineered vehicles to which he refers are the finest in the industry. If Honda, Toyota or Ford had a vehicle as good as the Lambda crossover, they would be badge-engineering them, too!
Dense. Just plain dense.

 

[FenwickHockey65]

This specimen is a prefiect example. He complains about badge-engineering when the badge-engineered vehicles to which he refers are the finest in the industry. If Honda, Toyota or Ford had a vehicle as good as the Lambda crossover, they would be badge-engineering them, too!
Dense. Just plain dense.

Finest in the industry?
A G5 or G3 is "finest in the industry?"
Hmm.

 

[PMC the 1st]

Finest in the industry?
A G5 or G3 is "finest in the industry?"
Hmm.

No, but the Buick Enclave, Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia are.
So is the Chevrolet Traverse.

Badge-engineering has never looked so darn good!

 

[FenwickHockey65]

No, but the Buick Enclave, Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia are.
So is the Chevrolet Traverse.

Badge-engineering has never looked so darn good!

True, but I wouldn't call this badge-engineering. More like platform sharing.
But the Acadia/Outlook share waaaaaaaay too many similarities...all the better for the Outlook to go and be replaced by the Zafira.

 

[plane]

I swear to God some of the biggest "critics" of GM I have ever seen in my life are members of this forum! Take it as you like, but it's quite true.

^ Exhibit #1 Front and Center.

 

[eurohazard]

^ Exhibit #1 Front and Center.

MmmmHmmm. Prove it.

 

[vcs2600]

Money talks, BS walks. Just as always.

 

[throwback]

This specimen is a prefiect example. He complains about badge-engineering when the badge-engineered vehicles to which he refers are the finest in the industry. If Honda, Toyota or Ford had a vehicle as good as the Lambda crossover, they would be badge-engineering them, too!
Dense. Just plain dense.

The Acadia/Outlook/Traverse are way to similiar. I purposely left out the Enclave because it has a clearly defined market position, and is significantly different in design inside and out. Yes the Lambdas are good vehicles but why does GM need 3 similiar trucks? If the current rumors are true that Saturn will be joining BPG, you will have virtually identical Outlooks and Acadias sharing the same space. How much money would you save if you had just one to advertise? I critcize GM when I think they are screwing up because I care. When people stop caring about your company then you have real problems, just look at Chrysler.

 

[PMC the 1st]

The Acadia/Outlook/Traverse are way to similiar. I purposely left out the Enclave because it has a clearly defined market position, and is significantly different in design inside and out. Yes the Lambdas are good vehicles but why does GM need 3 similiar trucks? If the current rumors are true that Saturn will be joining BPG, you will have virtually identical Outlooks and Acadias sharing the same space. How much money would you save if you had just one to advertise? I critcize GM when I think they are screwing up because I care. When people stop caring about your company then you have real problems, just look at Chrysler.

Yeah, but Chrysler is left to critisize because their products are crap.

Toyota has some good products, they have their bad products, and they badge-engineer. GM is kinda in the same boat as Toyota, only GM has a better product line than Toyota.
Toyota has some bad cars (Corolla, Yaris, Camry base, 4Runner, FJ Cruiser) just as GM has some bad vehicles (Aveo, Cobalt base, Colorado, G3, G5 and G6, LaCrosse). Average Toyotas would be the Matrix, Land Cruiser and perhaps the RAV-4. Average GM cars would be the Pontiac Vibe, Saturn Vue and Buick Lucerne.
Toyota has some great cars (Lexus LS 460, Prius, Camry hybrid, Tundra and maybe the Highlander) just as GM has some great cars (Cadillac CTS, Vette base and Z06, Pontiac Solstice GXP/Sky RedLine, Silvarado, Lambda crossovers, Cobalt SS, Malibu/Aura base and V6 models and a few others).
Thus Toyota and GM are approximate industry equals, where Toyota leads in reliability and GM leads in product desirability.

You really have no right to complain about GM is running things unless you also complain about how Toyota is running things.

 

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

True, but I wouldn't call this badge-engineering. More like platform sharing.
But the Acadia/Outlook share waaaaaaaay too many similarities...all the better for the Outlook to go and be replaced by the Zafira.

LOL a Zafira you can put ramps to the back of the Outlook and drive the Zafira in there! All you need is to fold down the rearmost seat

 

[throwback]

Yeah, but Chrysler is left to critisize because their products are crap.

Toyota has some good products, they have their bad products, and they badge-engineer. GM is kinda in the same boat as Toyota, only GM has a better product line than Toyota.
Toyota has some bad cars (Corolla, Yaris, Camry base, 4Runner, FJ Cruiser) just as GM has some bad vehicles (Aveo, Cobalt base, Colorado, G3, G5 and G6, LaCrosse). Average Toyotas would be the Matrix, Land Cruiser and perhaps the RAV-4. Average GM cars would be the Pontiac Vibe, Saturn Vue and Buick Lucerne.
Toyota has some great cars (Lexus LS 460, Prius, Camry hybrid, Tundra and maybe the Highlander) just as GM has some great cars (Cadillac CTS, Vette base and Z06, Pontiac Solstice GXP/Sky RedLine, Silvarado, Lambda crossovers, Cobalt SS, Malibu/Aura base and V6 models and a few others).
Thus Toyota and GM are approximate industry equals, where Toyota leads in reliability and GM leads in product desirability.

You really have no right to complain about GM is running things unless you also complain about how Toyota is running things.

Honestly, I don't care about Toyota. GM is losing money, that is my concern. They can't keep losing money in their home market and survive. GM needs to get back to turning a profit and forget about being the biggest car company. They days of GM owning 30% of the US market are long gone. Rick and Co. need to figure out a way to turn a profit with 18% market share.