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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
GM Shares Cadillac Sports Car Sketch With C8 Corvette Overtones (msn.com)
Christopher Smith
May 3, 2022

Vehicle Car Grille Automotive lighting Hood


The sketch was shared on the official GM Design Center Instagram page.
For the record, we've heard absolutely nothing about Cadillac creating a new sports car based on the Chevrolet Corvette. There's no hint, no suggestion, nor are there even rumors floating around. But you know what? We love that someone in the General Motors Design studio is at least thinking about it.
The racy red Caddy you see here comes from GM Design on Instagram, and if you instantly see shades of Corvette in the shape, you're not the only one. The thought sprung into our minds right away, and judging by some of the comments on the social post, others caught the same vibe. From the front fascia design with its angles and vents to the wide rear fenders, it looks ready to battle the Audi R8 for supremacy in the luxury mid-engine scene.


GM Design (@generalmotorsdesign) • Instagram photos and videos

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The idea of another attempt at a Cadillac on a Corvette chassis hasn't excited me, but this made me change my mind - looks pretty sweet!

However, I have reservations on how GM can build such a vehicle without constant comparisons to the presumably cheaper C8. Perhaps that's why this is a styling exercise with no rumors of production.
 

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The idea of another attempt at a Cadillac on a Corvette chassis hasn't excited me, but this made me change my mind - looks pretty sweet!

However, I have reservations on how GM can build such a vehicle without constant comparisons to the presumably cheaper C8. Perhaps that's why this is a styling exercise with no rumors of production.
I saw an XLR on the freeway the other day, pretty sweet car. Have they caught up on the orders for the base stingray let alone variant's of the car? They just don't have capacity to add another model to that plant
 

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I saw an XLR on the freeway the other day, pretty sweet car. Have they caught up on the orders for the base stingray let alone variant's of the car? They just don't have capacity to add another model to that plant
Supply has yet to meet demand on the "base" C8 Vette despite entering its 4th model year soon. The plant keeps getting short term shut downs caused by supplier issues.
 

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The idea of another attempt at a Cadillac on a Corvette chassis hasn't excited me, but this made me change my mind - looks pretty sweet!

However, I have reservations on how GM can build such a vehicle without constant comparisons to the presumably cheaper C8. Perhaps that's why this is a styling exercise with no rumors of production.
Does Audi R8 ever get compared with the Lamborghini Huracan?
There are ways to share a platform without drawing attention to a stablemate.

There does need to be greater degree of differentiability with a Cadillac on the same platform as Corvette.
The media tried to define XLR by its (lack of) performance when compared to the Corvette. The media certainly doesn't do that with R8 and Huracan. So, for Cadillac, don't give the media something to grab hold of and just do it right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Does Audi R8 ever get compared with the Lamborghini Huracan?
There are ways to share a platform without drawing attention to a stablemate.

There does need to be greater degree of differentiability with a Cadillac on the same platform as Corvette.
The media tried to define XLR by its (lack of) performance when compared to the Corvette. The media certainly doesn't do that with R8 and Huracan. So, for Cadillac, don't give the media something to grab hold of and just do it right.
I think there is a subtle difference with the Audi vs. Lambo. I believe the Lambo is pricier (correct me if I'm wrong), so they are taking a chassis launched in a pricier vehicle and using it in a cheaper vehicle, not the other way around, I presume the Cadillac will be more expensive than the C8. And, the Lamborghini will have the best performance to justify its greater price. As the C8 chassis is mid-engine, it pretty much is purpose built to be a sports car, it wouldn't make sense to make the Cadillac version anything but a full out sports car. So what do they do to the Cadillac version to justify it being more expensive without stepping all over the toes of GM's sacred Corvette? Other than a nicer interior, I don't think there is much they can do to improve performance, and I don't think they can charge a massive amount more for a nicer interior.

I think GM will have a hard time justifying a price anything more than a couple of thousand $$ more than the C8 for a Cadillac version - don't know if it is worth it.

If anything, I'd rather see them use the C7 chassis and make some kind of grand tourer for Cadillac.
 

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I think there is a subtle difference with the Audi vs. Lambo. I believe the Lambo is pricier (correct me if I'm wrong), so they are taking a chassis launched in a pricier vehicle and using it in a cheaper vehicle, not the other way around, I presume the Cadillac will be more expensive than the C8. And, the Lamborghini will have the best performance to justify its greater price. As the C8 chassis is mid-engine, it pretty much is purpose built to be a sports car, it wouldn't make sense to make the Cadillac version anything but a full out sports car. So what do they do to the Cadillac version to justify it being more expensive without stepping all over the toes of GM's sacred Corvette? Other than a nicer interior, I don't think there is much they can do to improve performance, and I don't think they can charge a massive amount more for a nicer interior.
The Lamb makes slightly more power than the R8, but the R8 is the better daily driver, aided by the Quattro system, whereas the Huracan uses an inferior Haldex system. The Audi has more tech more luxury more everything and a cheaper price point. The Huracan has more power and more track oriented. Both look incredible and are head turning.

So, how do you differentiate Corvette and let's call it "XLR" for ****s and giggles.
Corvette has the better name. Cadillac is quite tarnished.
So immediately, a pricing structure differential isn't going to work. You price XLR higher and give it less performance, it's not worth it to the buyer because Cadillac is the inferior name. Now you're getting less performance, and the level of luxury is perceived suspect. That's the formula Cadillac used with the Gen 1 XLR.

You can flip the script and sell XLR for lower than the Corvette. But now you've got a $70,000 XLR with less performance and better luxury. Does that damage the Corvette's reputation? And now you have a $30,000 gap between XLR and the Blackwing.

So what do you do when GM's flagship is priced at a value, and GM's luxury brand can't justify a car at a high price?

I think GM will have a hard time justifying a price anything more than a couple of thousand $$ more than the C8 for a Cadillac version - don't know if it is worth it.
Yup.

If anything, I'd rather see them use the C7 chassis and make some kind of grand tourer for Cadillac.
No. That's even worse. Because if Cadillac comes up with a grand tourer, then it faces off with the SL. And that's just a no-win scenario. And you're doing it with an old chassis.


I would love for XLR to return. But for that to happen, GM and Cadillac have to come to terms with a couple things.
Cadillac has to be treated as the flagship of GM. (Not gonna happen.)
Cadillac has to be able to use every trick in Corvette's book, including engine. (Not gonna happen.)
Cadillac needs to truly differentiate the interior, technology, features, style, and luxury from Corvette... and then take it up several notches.
It should be AT or NEAR Corvette level performance. AND it should have more tech and luxury and options than any Corvette. AND it should cost more.

Base MSRP should start at $100,000, with ATP ~$140K. That's a full $50K less than R8. And performance should keep the AMG's at arms length. And Cadillac's focus should be on the R8 and AMGs solely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The Lamb makes slightly more power than the R8, but the R8 is the better daily driver, aided by the Quattro system, whereas the Huracan uses an inferior Haldex system. The Audi has more tech more luxury more everything and a cheaper price point. The Huracan has more power and more track oriented. Both look incredible and are head turning.

So, how do you differentiate Corvette and let's call it "XLR" for ****s and giggles.
Corvette has the better name. Cadillac is quite tarnished.
So immediately, a pricing structure differential isn't going to work. You price XLR higher and give it less performance, it's not worth it to the buyer because Cadillac is the inferior name. Now you're getting less performance, and the level of luxury is perceived suspect. That's the formula Cadillac used with the Gen 1 XLR.

You can flip the script and sell XLR for lower than the Corvette. But now you've got a $70,000 XLR with less performance and better luxury. Does that damage the Corvette's reputation? And now you have a $30,000 gap between XLR and the Blackwing.

So what do you do when GM's flagship is priced at a value, and GM's luxury brand can't justify a car at a high price?



Yup.



No. That's even worse. Because if Cadillac comes up with a grand tourer, then it faces off with the SL. And that's just a no-win scenario. And you're doing it with an old chassis.


I would love for XLR to return. But for that to happen, GM and Cadillac have to come to terms with a couple things.
Cadillac has to be treated as the flagship of GM. (Not gonna happen.)
Cadillac has to be able to use every trick in Corvette's book, including engine. (Not gonna happen.)
Cadillac needs to truly differentiate the interior, technology, features, style, and luxury from Corvette... and then take it up several notches.
It should be AT or NEAR Corvette level performance. AND it should have more tech and luxury and options than any Corvette. AND it should cost more.

Base MSRP should start at $100,000, with ATP ~$140K. That's a full $50K less than R8. And performance should keep the AMG's at arms length. And Cadillac's focus should be on the R8 and AMGs solely.
One big pickle for GM!
 

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No. That's even worse. Because if Cadillac comes up with a grand tourer, then it faces off with the SL. And that's just a no-win scenario
SL looks like a Chinese copy of itself, that is just faceless. Cadillac could easily build a class winner with the Celestic's new styling and interior.
 

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SL looks like a Chinese copy of itself, that is just faceless. Cadillac could easily build a class winner with the Celestic's new styling and interior.
Design is only part of the story with these cars.
Cadillac could build a class winner in terms of design. But Cadillac has yet to prove that its designs and interior quality are even up to par at this level. And then sustain it and improve on it in subsequent model cycles and generations.

SL is at 7 generations. Cadillac has tried twice in this category and failed to improve on it... twice. Is the third time the charm? Or will they see an untenable ROI and give up a third time?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Design is only part of the story with these cars.
Cadillac could build a class winner in terms of design. But Cadillac has yet to prove that its designs and interior quality are even up to par at this level. And then sustain it and improve on it in subsequent model cycles and generations.

SL is at 7 generations. Cadillac has tried twice in this category and failed to improve on it... twice. Is the third time the charm? Or will they see an untenable ROI and give up a third time?
No doubt GM swung and missed with its other attempts. I would like to see GM attempt to break into the higher ends as I think they've show signs that they are getting it now. I, for one, can't wait to see the Celistiq - that will answer the question if they "get it".
 

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No doubt GM swung and missed with its other attempts. I would like to see GM attempt to break into the higher ends as I think they've show signs that they are getting it now. I, for one, can't wait to see the Celistiq - that will answer the question if they "get it".
Yeah. I await the Celestiq announcement.
Whether or not they "get it," remains to be seen.

I still have fundamental questions around Celestiq. But I will be happy to be proven wrong.
 

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I think there is a subtle difference with the Audi vs. Lambo. I believe the Lambo is pricier (correct me if I'm wrong), so they are taking a chassis launched in a pricier vehicle and using it in a cheaper vehicle, not the other way around, I presume the Cadillac will be more expensive than the C8. And, the Lamborghini will have the best performance to justify its greater price. As the C8 chassis is mid-engine, it pretty much is purpose built to be a sports car, it wouldn't make sense to make the Cadillac version anything but a full out sports car. So what do they do to the Cadillac version to justify it being more expensive without stepping all over the toes of GM's sacred Corvette? Other than a nicer interior, I don't think there is much they can do to improve performance, and I don't think they can charge a massive amount more for a nicer interior. I think GM will have a hard time justifying a price anything more than a couple of thousand $$ more than the C8 for a Cadillac version - don't know if it is worth it.
This is quite simple, actually. You charge rather substantially more for the Cadillac because it's a Cadillac. This is the most storied automobile name in existence with a 120 year history. Besides Cadillac, only Benz and Rolls Royce play in that rarified atmosphere. I realize some think the name is "damaged", but I have to disagree. The name is durable, and product defines the image, not decades old missteps. Cadillac had problems when they were building to a price point, rather than building to a standard. They need to build to a defined standard, and not allow accountants anywhere near the project. Otherwise, what's the point?

The Lamb makes slightly more power than the R8, but the R8 is the better daily driver, aided by the Quattro system, whereas the Huracan uses an inferior Haldex system. The Audi has more tech more luxury more everything and a cheaper price point. The Huracan has more power and more track oriented. Both look incredible and are head turning.

So, how do you differentiate Corvette and let's call it "XLR" for ****s and giggles.
Corvette has the better name. Cadillac is quite tarnished.

So immediately, a pricing structure differential isn't going to work. You price XLR higher and give it less performance, it's not worth it to the buyer because Cadillac is the inferior name. Now you're getting less performance, and the level of luxury is perceived suspect. That's the formula Cadillac used with the Gen 1 XLR.
See my above comment to BlackGTP

You can flip the script and sell XLR for lower than the Corvette. But now you've got a $70,000 XLR with less performance and better luxury. Does that damage the Corvette's reputation? And now you have a $30,000 gap between XLR and the Blackwing.
Wait, what? between XLR & BLACKWING? It makes zero sense to have the Cadillac less expensive than the Corvette.

So what do you do when GM's flagship is priced at a value, and GM's luxury brand can't justify a car at a high price?
That's not happening. Cadillac must retake its proper place at the top of the heap to remain relevant. Corvette exists in a unique corporate placement position, it's more tangential to existing corporate structure otherwise.

If anything, I'd rather see them use the C7 chassis and make some kind of grand tourer for Cadillac.
That would be a disaster. It reeks of cheapness with leftover hardware. Not the image you want for Cadillac.

No. That's even worse. Because if Cadillac comes up with a grand tourer, then it faces off with the SL. And that's just a no-win scenario. And you're doing it with an old chassis.
Partially disagree here. Properly executed, Cadillac is the only marque with the reputational heft to take that one on. There's no reason you can't have a mid-engined grand tourer, and it avoids taking on the SL directly. More of an oblique, which is fine, and I love Benz, I always have.

I would love for XLR to return. But for that to happen, GM and Cadillac have to come to terms with a couple things.
Cadillac has to be treated as the flagship of GM. (Not gonna happen.)
This is precisely what needs to happen to revive Cadillac. It really doesn't fit anywhere else.

Cadillac has to be able to use every trick in Corvette's book, including engine. (Not gonna happen.)
Cadillac needs to truly differentiate the interior, technology, features, style, and luxury from Corvette... and then take it up several notches.
It should be AT or NEAR Corvette level performance. AND it should have more tech and luxury and options than any Corvette. AND it should cost more.
Mostly agree here, but you seem to be contradicting yourself. I would disagree on engine. I think a proper Cadillac Blackwing variant engine would fit the bill. It shouldn't have the Corvette engine, and I read that Blackwing will in fact grow into a family of engines.

Base MSRP should start at $100,000, with ATP ~$140K. That's a full $50K less than R8. And performance should keep the AMG's at arms length. And Cadillac's focus should be on the R8 and AMGs solely.
The Cadillac version, (which should NOT be named 'XLR') should start at $150K, and rise quickly from there, topping out around $215K or so. I think a legacy name works fine there, Eldorado would work for me. Again, the product defines the perceived quality, not someone's dated idea of the brand. Once a properly executed product takes the stage, antiquated notions are immediately out the window.

It is a captivating sketch. I'd like to see them make the effort.
 

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I do not agree with Cadillac as synonymous with inferior name. Unless one has not been paying attention, Cadillac has a pretty good record racing world and is going back to Le Mans.

In addition, no one sees a Cadillac and thinks cheap anymore, we are industry watchers, so we have criticism, however, we pretty much butcher every brand.

Corvette as a performance brand is difficult to compete with. No one shows up to a top tier GT endurance race, finds corvette racing and thinks push overs now, it's more like holy crap, this race is lost... and it usually is lost. Corvette as a sportscar is the most dominant brand bar non.. so yeah... in that case, Cadillac is inferior.
 

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If something like this were to be built, I would bet it would be electric, not mid-engine.

GM has already confirmed that an all-electric Corvette is in the works.
That fits their stated EV direction. Mid-batteries would keep the seating low and be roughly in the same spot as the engine. How would this be much different from a Corvette? I hope people realize lots of 'Vette buyers are going for a grand tourer, in sports car form, to cruise around in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
This is quite simple, actually. You charge rather substantially more for the Cadillac because it's a Cadillac. This is the most storied automobile name in existence with a 120 year history. Besides Cadillac, only Benz and Rolls Royce play in that rarified atmosphere. I realize some think the name is "damaged", but I have to disagree. The name is durable, and product defines the image, not decades old missteps. Cadillac had problems when they were building to a price point, rather than building to a standard. They need to build to a defined standard, and not allow accountants anywhere near the project. Otherwise, what's the point?



See my above comment to BlackGTP



Wait, what? between XLR & BLACKWING? It makes zero sense to have the Cadillac less expensive than the Corvette.



That's not happening. Cadillac must retake its proper place at the top of the heap to remain relevant. Corvette exists in a unique corporate placement position, it's more tangential to existing corporate structure otherwise.



That would be a disaster. It reeks of cheapness with leftover hardware. Not the image you want for Cadillac.



Partially disagree here. Properly executed, Cadillac is the only marque with the reputational heft to take that one on. There's no reason you can't have a mid-engined grand tourer, and it avoids taking on the SL directly. More of an oblique, which is fine, and I love Benz, I always have.



This is precisely what needs to happen to revive Cadillac. It really doesn't fit anywhere else.



Mostly agree here, but you seem to be contradicting yourself. I would disagree on engine. I think a proper Cadillac Blackwing variant engine would fit the bill. It shouldn't have the Corvette engine, and I read that Blackwing will in fact grow into a family of engines.



The Cadillac version, (which should NOT be named 'XLR') should start at $150K, and rise quickly from there, topping out around $215K or so. I think a legacy name works fine there, Eldorado would work for me. Again, the product defines the perceived quality, not someone's dated idea of the brand. Once a properly executed product takes the stage, antiquated notions are immediately out the window.

It is a captivating sketch. I'd like to see them make the effort.
I hear what you are saying, but how do you sell a $200k Cadillac sports car when every single review starts out with a little story of last time Cadillac shared a chassis with a Chevy, the Cimmaron, and then goes on to expound how this new Cadillac shares with the Corvette. The Corvette which starts at $60k. And I have zero doubts every article will start out like that. And realistically, what can GM do to make the performance substantially better than the Vette? I don't think there is much as the C8 is already a world class vehicle. Is shaving .3 seconds off a performance metric going to make all comparisons to the Corvette go away?

Sure, they can put a beautiful interior in it and some gee-whiz tech as I expect in the Celestiq, but there will still be that continual comparison to the Vette.

And to do this right will take a huge shift in GM where the Corvette is the companies sacred cow and it is to be #1 in performance.

I'd love to see a world class Cadillac sports car. I just think there is a minefield of potential problems, no matter how good they make it.
 
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