GM Inside News Forum banner
1 - 5 of 5 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Originally posted by GM-10@Jun 25 2004, 02:52 PM
I applaud the UAW for its creativity. It is amazing how much more intelligent the Lansing locals are than the Flint Locals are/were.

Even with this failure, the local didn't go on a tirade against GM. Instead they said "Were gonna try another one!"

It is absolutely terrific to see that American "Do or die spirit" alive in Lansing!

I wish I could get behind their fight.

They deserve a great product!

While the commodore might not be it, ...and it really wouldn't be a hit, something else would.

Maybe they could shift the jobs from the thankless workers in Pontiac or Flint.
I agree. Starting a fleet-only factory wasn't the best idea in the world, but t can't hurt to try. Living in the Flint area, I'd appreciate more people put back to work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Originally posted by Hudson@Jun 25 2004, 03:27 PM
But Lansing's two plants will be "fleet only" beginning this fall. The plants currently make the Chevrolet Classic (fleet-only) and the Pontiac Grand Am (soon-to-be fleet-only). Adding something with more shelf-life than these two would be a good thing...and trying to find new products may be the best move the UAW has made in decades.

I said "starting" a plant as fleet-only. There's a huge difference in just keeping the doors open a year or two longer building the existing products for fleet, as opposed to doing all the plant setup required (plant equipment, training, logistics, suppliers) to build a different product. And that doesn't even include the engineering needed on the car itself to be legal and appropriate for the states.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Originally posted by carMuck+Jun 25 2004, 10:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (carMuck @ Jun 25 2004, 10:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-banzai79@Jun 25 2004, 05:06 PM
This was a dumb decision. The Crown Vic is a goldmine for Ford, and it wouldn't have been that hard to refresh the Commodore. Say what you want about it, it's still better than no full-size RWD chevy.
Agreed, GM really blew it here! Not only are skilled, experienced still be out of work, it also lost the opportunity to really fine-tune the Commodore chassis for this market. Who knows, we could've had a GTO with better styling and a gas tank that doesn't take up the whole trunk! Cops and Families could've had a new RWD Impala or Caprice to compete with the LX Chryslers.
What a dumb-*** move! I guess GM would rather piss off workers and let more sales go to Chrysler than actually employ people and sell cars! [/b][/quote]
Again, the Crown Vic has been in ongoing production - everything is already set up. What the UAW was proposing here would be very expensive, completely refitting a plant that currently makes FWD, retraining workers, setting up suppliers and logistics - this stuff doesn't just happen, it takes a lot of money. And for what, mostly fleet sales, which carry the lowest margins of any type of sale?

Then there's the cost to bring the aging Holden platform up to US specs, when it's set to be replaced fairly soon anyway. You can take up half the GTO's trunk with the gas tank (as a bandaid to meet US regs) and not too many people care, but take up half of a cop car (or family car) trunk, and it's a deal-killer. And moving it somewhere else is a major redesign, or they would have done it on the GTO.

Bringing back the tooling to make the old Caprice would hardly be any better, if not worse. It's never had the new Gen III V8's fitted to it yet, and they're not going to start cranking out LT1's again.

And the argument about employing more people doesn't wash in the overall picture either. Every sale of a GM cop car is going to come at the expense of Ford or possibly Chrysler when they get in the game, so you will be taking away as much as you add.

Kudos to the UAW for thinking creatively, but this idea is just a money pit for GM. They were smart to reject it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Originally posted by carMuck+Jun 26 2004, 01:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (carMuck @ Jun 26 2004, 01:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 10:14 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-banzai79
@Jun 25 2004, 05:06 PM
This was a dumb decision. The Crown Vic is a goldmine for Ford, and it wouldn't have been that hard to refresh the Commodore. Say what you want about it, it's still better than no full-size RWD chevy.

Agreed, GM really blew it here! Not only are skilled, experienced still be out of work, it also lost the opportunity to really fine-tune the Commodore chassis for this market. Who knows, we could've had a GTO with better styling and a gas tank that doesn't take up the whole trunk! Cops and Families could've had a new RWD Impala or Caprice to compete with the LX Chryslers.
What a dumb-*** move! I guess GM would rather piss off workers and let more sales go to Chrysler than actually employ people and sell cars!

Again, the Crown Vic has been in ongoing production - everything is already set up. What the UAW was proposing here would be very expensive, completely refitting a plant that currently makes FWD, retraining workers, setting up suppliers and logistics - this stuff doesn't just happen, it takes a lot of money. And for what, mostly fleet sales, which carry the lowest margins of any type of sale?

Then there's the cost to bring the aging Holden platform up to US specs, when it's set to be replaced fairly soon anyway. You can take up half the GTO's trunk with the gas tank (as a bandaid to meet US regs) and not too many people care, but take up half of a cop car (or family car) trunk, and it's a deal-killer. And moving it somewhere else is a major redesign, or they would have done it on the GTO.

Bringing back the tooling to make the old Caprice would hardly be any better, if not worse. It's never had the new Gen III V8's fitted to it yet, and they're not going to start cranking out LT1's again.

And the argument about employing more people doesn't wash in the overall picture either. Every sale of a GM cop car is going to come at the expense of Ford or possibly Chrysler when they get in the game, so you will be taking away as much as you add.

Kudos to the UAW for thinking creatively, but this idea is just a money pit for GM. They were smart to reject it.
I do agree bringing over the CURRENT Commodore platform here for FLEET-ONLY sales is stupid. But had this very same proposal been offered a couple years ago before the "GTO-ization" of the Monaro, it could've reaped much great benefits for the GTO in styling and practicality, here in the US and could've brought a Commodore-based vehicle for fleet and private use in this country and in the process could've beat the 300 to the market. Thats the statement I was trying to make, sorry if it wasn't that clear.
If they were going to do something now, I would agree lets wait until the new Zeta platform Commodore comes out and offer it across the board. Whether GM thinks so or not, Chrysler has a winner with the 300. The only RWD, more performance and/or luxury-oriented sedan GM has here is the CTS. While still a decent value for the money, its still expensive for most people, considering the average CTS is about the same price as fully loaded Hemi 300. I mean for $35K, which is the better deal, the smaller V6 CTS or the larger V8 300? I think thats pretty obvious. So the need for GM to have a new "Caprice" or new "Buick Wildcat" is there. Policemen want better cars and the masses want more "bling-bling" at a lower price, so IMO GM needs to address these needs to keep from losing more market share, and having to fire more people.

Hope this clears things up a bit. [/b][/quote]
Looking at it as something GM could have been planning for a couple of year, it might have had some merit. Money spent on federalizing the Monaro for the GTO could have been used on this project, but I'm sure it wouldn't have covered the whole tab. Resources from something else in the new product program to pay for it. Which would go?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Originally posted by tgagneguam+Jun 26 2004, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tgagneguam @ Jun 26 2004, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MelvinJ@Jun 26 2004, 01:48 PM
Looking at it as something GM could have been planning for a couple of year, it might have had some merit.  Money spent on federalizing the Monaro for the GTO could have been used on this project, but I'm sure it wouldn't have covered the whole tab.  Resources from something else in the new product program to pay for it.  Which would go?
It's funny, MelvinJ, as much as you have elaborated well on the drawbacks financially to going ahead with this proposal, your appeal to business logic will fall on deaf ears. Sometimes ideas like capital expenditure, fixed costs, return on investment and profit margins are foreign concepts.

The idea of selling this car has appeal, but it seems to possess appropriately little priority. [/b][/quote]
Thanks, although sometimes I don't know why I bother.
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top