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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aviz2sm08FDg&refer=home


The loans were authorized in last year's energy bill, and rules to free up the funding are supposed to be written within a year of its December passage, Representative John Dingell said yesterday in a letter to U.S. Department of Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman.

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Detroit 3 ask up to $40 billion in loans

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080805/COL06/808050401/1014/BUSINESS01

Detroit's three automakers are urging Congress to make as much as $35 billion to $40 billion in low-cost loans available during the next two to three years to assure that the companies survive long enough to retool and build a new generation of fuel-efficient vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: GM, Ford Should Receive $25 Billion in Plant Aid, Dingell Says

for those so inclined, here is the letter that Congessman Dingel wrote to Sec. Bodman:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_110/110-ltr.080408.DOE.EnergyIndSecAct.pdf

Perhaps a campaign to support the Congressman's efforts may help:

Written correspondence and phoning is particularly effective. Calls to Secretary of Energy Samuel. W. Bodman (phone: 202/586-6210 or 1-800-342-5363), by law, must be logged and returned or answered. There is no such requirement for e-mail or letters.
 

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Why not?
The Washington Wizards are already spending hundreds of billions of dollars we don't have and in fact don't exist.
As for them following their own rules, they do what they want. Laws are for proles, not big shot bureaucrats.
 

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Oh FFS

Look at USA... 300 M people they want every man woman child to be paying several dollars to support "private" industry?

"SARCASM"

I agree, it's better to WASTE billions in a stupid war than to LEND money to a struggling industry that employs hundreads of thousands well paid workers.

The Japanese governement financed ToyHonda's hybrid program.. how can The Big 3 compete with that? Manufacturing companies, whether they are making automobiles, planes, or any other high-tech products, need governement help now, the " it's private companies, we don't help them" mentality is irrelevant now.
 

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Bad idea. If anybody is in worse shape than GM, it is the federal government.

Let GM go into bankruptcy. Let the millionaire dealers, highly paid executives, etc. take it on the chin. Especially the thousands of dealers that GM doesn't need. These dealers are millionaires, and they (or their heirs) are sitting around, waiting for GM to close a division, so they can walk away with a huge settlement.
They definitely have too many dealers for the amount of business they have. Combining some standalone store to BPG was a good idea, but then you're still heavy. Toyota has 1200-1300 stores and Chevy has 4300-4400. Both sell a million cars, so who's got the profitable dealership in that scenario?
Only bad thing about dealerships going under is the displaced workforce. Take a look at all the GM dealerships in your area and then imagine most of them closing? Wouldn't that affect your local economy?
Should GM go into bankruptcy, I'd hope the shareholders would finally rally and vote to replace Rick Wagoner. Truly is a shame to see what was the embodiment of America have to be disgraced.
 

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I can see people are hyperventilating already, but keep in mind they are asking for a loan not a handout. Loan means they pay back the money they borrowed with interest.
 

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Bad idea. If anybody is in worse shape than GM, it is the federal government.

Let GM go into bankruptcy. Let the millionaire dealers, highly paid executives, etc. take it on the chin. Especially the thousands of dealers that GM doesn't need. These dealers are millionaires, and they (or their heirs) are sitting around, waiting for GM to close a division, so they can walk away with a huge settlement.
All the dealers that GM doesn't need are millionaires? Many of those hurting dealers make less money (if any money) than the average factory line worker. These business' are FAR FROM being millionaires.
 

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"SARCASM"

I agree, it's better to WASTE billions in a stupid war than to LEND money to a struggling industry that employs hundreads of thousands well paid workers.

The Japanese governement financed ToyHonda's hybrid program.. how can The Big 3 compete with that? Manufacturing companies, whether they are making automobiles, planes, or any other high-tech products, need governement help now, the " it's private companies, we don't help them" mentality is irrelevant now.
They have slave and child labor in China and Africa, how is the US supposed to compete with that? Should we also allow slave and child labor in the US? Does that make it right? The Soviets had government funded everything, and that worked out so great for them.

If we have problems competing with industries from other countries because of unfair practices, we should address that via tariffs, not by duplicating their socialist programs in our country. And the auto industry is no more special than any other industry, do it for them, and you have to do it for every industry.


That being said, I'm much less against loaning companies money at cheap rates than just giving them the money or giving people tax incentives to buy vehicles. As long as the companies don't borrow the money and then go bankrupt. If we keep giving people/companies free money, there is no incentive to be responsible or do better the next time around.
 

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Should GM go into bankruptcy, I'd hope the shareholders would finally rally and vote to replace Rick Wagoner. Truly is a shame to see what was the embodiment of America have to be disgraced.
Unfortunately, GM's problems began long before Rick Wagoner. For years GM was a big bureaucracy that could not move fast enough to get out of its own way. When they controlled market share, they didn't have to react quickly. They could have redundant product and divisions. In the beginning of Toyota, Honda, Nissian in this country, these companies were not a threat to GM. However as those companies produced product that was in demand, GM continued shooting themselves in the foot. Too many bean counters attempting to be involved in product development, when that should have been left to the engineering staff. I am not happy with GM's position today and I hope for the sake of this country, they can turn themselves around. I have always driven GM (with the exception of my Jeep Wrangler) and probably always will. GM has provided jobs for our family over the years, through a factory or a dealership. It amazes me the people who still have no faith, that this giant and once great company can turn around and be the envy of the automobile industry again.
 

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Isn't this the same Dingell that has been fighting increasing the fuel economy requirements for cars?? Now he wants a handout for industry? Listen Congressman Dingell, Americans will buy plenty of US sources cars if they meet our needs. Why don't you suggest investing a few billion in battery techology and renewable energy sources as opposed to handing money to the manufacturers. Oh, I forgot - you are a politician and find it impossible to think long-term
 

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Unfortunately, GM's problems began long before Rick Wagoner. For years GM was a big bureaucracy that could not move fast enough to get out of its own way. When they controlled market share, they didn't have to react quickly. They could have redundant product and divisions. In the beginning of Toyota, Honda, Nissian in this country, these companies were not a threat to GM. However as those companies produced product that was in demand, GM continued shooting themselves in the foot. Too many bean counters attempting to be involved in product development, when that should have been left to the engineering staff. I am not happy with GM's position today and I hope for the sake of this country, they can turn themselves around. I have always driven GM (with the exception of my Jeep Wrangler) and probably always will. GM has provided jobs for our family over the years, through a factory or a dealership. It amazes me the people who still have no faith, that this giant and once great company can turn around and be the envy of the automobile industry again.
Well put.

People forget that manufacturing is a defense issue, it's a strategic necessity for the nation's survival.

We would indeed have been fighting off the Japanese and Germans in the hills, with our 30.06s and 30-30s in 1942 if GM, Ford, and Chrysler did not exist. The miracles of wartime production these and other corporations like our steel mills--now mostly DOA--created a force for freedom that could not be stopped.
And so today we are free to have this discussion, instead of living under brutal, totalitarian German and Japanese masters.

The overeducated/underintelligent America-sucks New World Order products of the Harvard-Yale Axis who turn up their noses at all things American think we can live in a "service industry" age.
Smart as they think they are, they apparently don't know that someone has to actually produce things to support "service."

Since the Japanese government aids their auto industry, and restricts ours from entry there, I would say turnabout is certainly fair play.

This is something one or both presidential candidates will probably get aboard with, if their handlers feed them the right trail mix some morning.
 

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"SARCASM"

I agree, it's better to WASTE billions in a stupid war than to LEND money to a struggling industry that employs hundreads of thousands well paid workers.

The Japanese governement financed ToyHonda's hybrid program.. how can The Big 3 compete with that? Manufacturing companies, whether they are making automobiles, planes, or any other high-tech products, need governement help now, the " it's private companies, we don't help them" mentality is irrelevant now.
Actually, the American public financed the Japanese Hybrid program buy continually purchasing Japanese products and services when there were clear alternatives. Now there aren't any alternatives that make financial sense. Pray for the American Sheep to change their ways or bow down to our eastern owners from Japan, China, India and Korea et al., inc.
 

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Well put.

People forget that manufacturing is a defense issue, it's a strategic necessity for the nation's survival.

We would indeed have been fighting off the Japanese and Germans in the hills, with our 30.06s and 30-30s in 1942 if GM, Ford, and Chrysler did not exist. The miracles of wartime production these and other corporations like our steel mills--now mostly DOA--created a force for freedom that could not be stopped.
And so today we are free to have this discussion, instead of living under brutal, totalitarian German and Japanese masters.

The overeducated/underintelligent America-sucks New World Order products of the Harvard-Yale Axis who turn up their noses at all things American think we can live in a "service industry" age.
Smart as they think they are, they apparently don't know that someone has to actually produce things to support "service."

Since the Japanese government aids their auto industry, and restricts ours from entry there, I would say turnabout is certainly fair play.

This is something one or both presidential candidates will probably get aboard with, if their handlers feed them the right trail mix some morning.
Well said!!!
 

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From what I have heard, the Japanese govt. paid for the hybrid technology research and development for Toyota, though Toyota was prosecuted for stealing some technology from a Miami based company; I do think that the U.S. govt. should do something. The auto industry is the most important industry for any govt. because of the extreme money cycle it creates; unlike the worst thing, an atomic bomb. So they should help the American auto makers, instead of giving away the industry to the Japanese who will still import half their cars and three quarters of their components for this market.
 

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They have slave and child labor in China and Africa, how is the US supposed to compete with that? Should we also allow slave and child labor in the US? Does that make it right? The Soviets had government funded everything, and that worked out so great for them.

If we have problems competing with industries from other countries because of unfair practices, we should address that via tariffs, not by duplicating their socialist programs in our country. And the auto industry is no more special than any other industry, do it for them, and you have to do it for every industry.


That being said, I'm much less against loaning companies money at cheap rates than just giving them the money or giving people tax incentives to buy vehicles. As long as the companies don't borrow the money and then go bankrupt. If we keep giving people/companies free money, there is no incentive to be responsible or do better the next time around.
I agree with what you have said, and I generally believe in free markets. However, like Lamronh said, some industries are critical and are too important to fail. I think automotive is one.

I think the gov't needs to tread carefully, however. If companies/industries believe that they will continually get bailed out in their time of trouble, this will undermine the entire system.
 

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Bad idea. If anybody is in worse shape than GM, it is the federal government.

Let GM go into bankruptcy. Let the millionaire dealers, highly paid executives, etc. take it on the chin. Especially the thousands of dealers that GM doesn't need. These dealers are millionaires, and they (or their heirs) are sitting around, waiting for GM to close a division, so they can walk away with a huge settlement.
you obviously dont work for a dealer as I do,you think that all dealers are millionaires?what ****ing planet are you from?I work for a small dealer thats been there 50 years and every year gets worse,so tell it to all the employees that have to go on unemployment that gm should just go under and into bankruptcy.just what our economy needs,thousands more unemployed?
 

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I read many of the posts here and wonder why as Americans we are not more willing to support US companies? In other countries people there support the products made there. I understand global trade but I want fair trade too. I see people here in Tennessee driving foreign cars, shopping at Wal Mart and complaining that they don’t make enough money to support their families.
 
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