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Reading the heading, i though she moved to standup comedy ....

These people are missing the fact Elon Musk is the brand for Tesla .. nothing else pushes Tesla to people . From Mars to Twitter he goes, people buy Tesla to associate themselves as progressive to modern. Its more Image working there and product stands for it.

Even Rivian or Lucid dont have that image of Tesla ... even if they have better products ..

This is the reason there are non sold Bolts and Sold Teslas.

Cheap electrics turn to fire . I would buy a Chinese or a Korean electric than buying an American cheap electric because I am sure major portion of the cash i pay for that cheap electric is not spend on an executive salary and its on the product.
 

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If you look at Tesla's profitability, That is where GM needs to focus on. In addition, Mary needs to decouple GM China from Chinese partners, just like Tesla. It would make for instant improvements on profitability for GM Global
 

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Reading the heading, i though she moved to standup comedy ....

These people are missing the fact Elon Musk is the brand for Tesla .. nothing else pushes Tesla to people . From Mars to Twitter he goes, people buy Tesla to associate themselves as progressive to modern. Its more Image working there and product stands for it.

Even Rivian or Lucid dont have that image of Tesla ... even if they have better products ..

This is the reason there are non sold Bolts and Sold Teslas.

Cheap electrics turn to fire . I would buy a Chinese or a Korean electric than buying an American cheap electric because I am sure major portion of the cash i pay for that cheap electric is not spend on an executive salary and its on the product.
Does this just mean one of them is a better choice for bringing drugs to China and killing Winnie the Pooh?
Jaw Curtain Gesture Public address system Eyelash

Toy Yellow Font Snout Stuffed toy
 

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Does this just mean one of them is a better choice for bringing drugs to China and killing Winnie the Pooh?
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The fun part is, imagine Marry Barra doing the same and where will be GM shares or she her self. That is the power of image ....... People see him like ironman or so (or he builds that - example : ... Starlink service is now active in Ukraine. More terminals en route. .. power of this stuff is insane, people now imaging a set of satellites moving over Ukraine and saving the world , so they want be part of it ).

Cheap EV ? who cares, do you want to be part of saving the world or get some chineese-american knockoff stuff which major part of money to fund some executives ? )
 

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This gives me the deja vu back to when GM kept saying Pontiac or was it Cadillac was going to surpass BMW.
Lutz's original plan for Pontiac pre-bankruptcy was to be a more economical BMW with an all RWD lineup, which with the Solstice and G8, and not far removed from the GTO, wasn't as out of line as one would think, particularly as BMW moved away from the sport side and to the luxury side.

Then Johan came in and wanted Caddy to rival BMW. Then Carlisle came in and said let Cadillac be Cadillac.
 

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If Mary wants to beat Tesla making great vehicles is not enough. What Tesla has is the best charging network. In NE Florida if we couldn’t charge out Bolt in our garage we were screwed. There were few public chargers and they weren’t reliable.
That would be a boon to their electric endeavor, having a charging network too, but that takes moola. These mfrs. and others in the supply/support arena really need to get their 💩 together if they o_O think this is the future :ROFLMAO:... :) :) .
 

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This gives me the deja vu back to when GM kept saying Pontiac or was it Cadillac was going to surpass BMW.

Hey Mary quit worrying about what Tesla is doing and focus on making GM the best it can be regardless of what your competition is doing.
I hear what you're saying, big swede, and largely agree, with a slight proviso.

I actually don't mind that MB is placing GM's performance in the context of a competitor, as it has many times over the past four decades since it really ceded much of it sales, much of its reputation, much of its luster to its rising, "hungrier" competitors. I guess the concern for me in her making these statements rests in the reality that she makes them with impunity, so much so, that people within the Company likely take a more relaxed approach to these goals. I know people believe Ultium is the ultimate in EV powertrains. I know the more obsequious among us believe that the rise of GM in BEV's is inevitable. But somehow I cannot forget that similar-sounding prophesying about vehicles that sounded equally promising in their respective markets never really lived up to the hype in some important way. Hence, we have a once-glorious American automaker relegated to a somewhat forgettable regional player.

I know am not alone in this sentiment, and I think that explains in part the reasonable skepticism people experience when listening to MB speak to GM's certain domination of BEV's. We'll see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 · (Edited)
Tesla don't do have big huge expensive marketing budgets, Musk seems to milk the press for all its worth, car magazines & internet car website for free, maybe GM should set a side a lot of press cars demonstrators when new models are introduced. If GM want to continue using expensive outside marketing companies, just make sure are large chunk of that cost should be linked to "payment-by-results" compared other companies, and well GM model they advertise sales increases, and dependant on GM profits made on it.

So if GM don't do well these expensive outside marketing companies get zero-zero-zero money from GM if they don't perform in the future, not given huge sums of money rewarded with hundreds on millions for failure money-for-old -rope whether they win or fail, the way it has always been done in the past. If marketing don't perform, then they don't get a dime.

Just wan't GM to be the first company to crack solid state battery cells problems, make it work. Then GM will solve all the expensive costs all of the problems normally associated with EV's, price, materials, range & long time charging time problems. GM profits/share price/EV sales charts will hit the Ren Cen roof.
 

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I hear what you're saying, big swede, and largely agree, with a slight proviso.

I actually don't mind that MB is placing GM's performance in the context of a competitor, as it has many times over the past four decades since it really ceded much of it sales, much of its reputation, much of its luster to its rising, "hungrier" competitors. I guess the concern for me in her making these statements rests in the reality that she makes them with impunity, so much so, that people within the Company likely take a more relaxed approach to these goals. I know people believe Ultium is the ultimate in EV powertrains. I know the more obsequious among us believe that the rise of GM in BEV's is inevitable. But somehow I cannot forget that similar-sounding prophesying about vehicles that sounded equally promising in their respective markets never really lived up to the hype in some important way. Hence, we have a once-glorious American automaker relegated to a somewhat forgettable regional player.

I know am not alone in this sentiment, and I think that explains in part the reasonable skepticism people experience when listening to MB speak to GM's certain domination of BEV's. We'll see.
I'm fine with the puffery, it isn't like any company is going to come out and say "we are going to come out with this expensive, new product that's just like everyone else's and maintain market share". Either way, GM, Ford and all the other auto makes are trying to show Wall St their tech is as good as Tesla's and they can be "cool" like Musk. I think that's fruitless but ok to try, Musk is Musk and no one will be able to steal his thunder, Tesla has found a niche - cutting edge beta testing type stuff. Actually, I think I just realized when Tesla's stock will come to earth - when Musk get's bored of Tesla and moves on - superstar CEO will take the stock price with him.

Unlike the past, GM/MB is truly putting the company on the line. If Ultium is a flop, then GM is pretty much done for.

But I get the skepticism, GM's history lends itself to it. I'm optomistic and see the massive changes MB has made to GM, I think today's GM is very different from GM of 20+ years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
UK voters voted to shut down their own North Sea off shore oil wells in support of 'saving the planet' and 'doing their part' only to export all their manufacturing jobs to chainah and import energy from Qatar...
lol..
Don't think voters shut them down, British Governments never backed supported them just milked them to the max with taxes, the Chinese now own most oil rigs now in the North Sea. Two thirds of the UK mnaufacturing base disappeared in the UK under Thatcher/Blair years that's a FACT (Includes the smaller number of cars the Japanese make in the UK0, Germany & France have always supported bailed out both its car/aerospace industry whenever it hit hard times just like the US always have.

Both GM & Mopar would have been sold off to highest foreign bidder back in 2009 bankruptcy if they were British companies under Thatcher/Blair, probably one of German luxury buyer would have purchased Cadillac, Chevy would be a scalp not being used like Austin the badge sitting VW or Toyota cabinet, Buick badge would also be in a display case like Triumph nobody would want to bring back, Pontiac sold of to the Chinese like MG.

Surprising as it may seem the Green Party only get under 1% of the vote they are normally people that are totally work shy benefit scroungers or TV celebrates/actors. Politicians are heavily influenced by minorities as most of the work shy have all the time in the world to demonstrations make all the noise and tend disrupt the daily lives of those that want to work that don't have time to protest on anything during the week, and the left wing media the BBC are driving all their own agendas 24/7 global warming/banning cars is top of political agenda lists.

British elite to be honest look down their noses at Engineers like Mary Barra as scum bags low status oily rags with dirty hands, whereas the American, French, German & Japanese Engineers are highly regarded have a lot of support lot more respected.

If you go to any British website whether it be a daily newspapers/ motoring magazine and view the comments of those that own cars/voters like you say 95% are not interested don't want electric cars won't be able to afford to buy them lots of cyclists/car owners battle going online as the British Government are giving cyclists priority over cars, most of the comments online say the "voters" will put a million miles on the new ICE car they just bought, is all that's in their future plans. Vast about of EV's being purchased in the UK are purchased by upper middle classes with big wallets to match high prices, and mostly by big cash rich company & big business are buying the lions share of EV's. so l can understand why those the many paying £11k Fiat 500 gasoline new car, can see they won't be able to stretch to a £20k to 32k Fiat 500e electric car in the future. Younger generation being green washed in British schools by leftie teachers is a mixed bag a lot will never own an ICE/EV car, lots that enter what is basically low pay/low skill service basic Government earning minimum legislated in pay Service Sector jobs that make up the majority of jobs in the UK toady, these youngsters are driving around in heavy smoking old jalopy's well past there sell by dates, not expensive EV's.

Politically the voting status of UK just for the record is much of the older generation 40+ year olds have seen two-thirds of UK manufacturing base disappear under the Thatcher/Blair UK governments (Includes arrival of Japanese carmakers) know how things used to be, have witnessed the UK transform from a high skill high paid economy with a big manufacturing base to a low paid minimum pay, low-no skilled economy, former factories have been turned into new housing estate, museums of what use to be, industrial retail parks with supermarkets requiring highly skilled bar code swipers you could trains a money to do, shelf stackers, quick heat burger flippers chain stores, retail out lets selling mostly Chinese plc foreign made cheap tat & rubbish, cheap clothes in shopping mall made shipped in from India, Cambodia, Vietnam anywhere with cheap child labour. white goods shipped in from Korea/China, cars shipped in from mostly France/Germany. Fair to say if your one of the millions with a degree in media studies in the UK, majority won't find a job, will end up manager in a chain store in the UK, or managing restocking a few isles in a supermarket in reality, smartest move is probably focusing on a Government based career train as Doctor sadly nobody want that hard slog. If you are not to clever at school, and the youngsters career as a Z list celebrity on U-Tube does not quite work out you had better be good at either bar code swiping, stack shelves or be good at walking if you want a job in a Amazon workhouse.

Most of over 40 year old+ car owning British voters were totally disillusioned with how much of they have watched the UK get flushed down the tubes by during the last 45 year, that's probably why 51% voted to leave Europe, blaming it them for all the woes, when in fact is was British Government fault for never backing industry.

So Boris Johnson finally managed to deliver Brexit after he got elected was hailed a hero by the majority of voters that was his only real success he ever had with British voters, after he got elected as UK Prime Minister he changed cancelled virtually everything that was in the Conservative manifesto that got him elected into power, British voters wanted to close it's borders to mostly economic migrants arriving from the Middle East because of terrorist risks and mass slaughter of British people in Manchester pop concerts and bus bombings, and later 1 million jobs lost during covid there was no work for them to do. British voters just wanted immigrants that had something to offer the UK to fill jobs where there were high skill shortages Doctors/Nurses/Engineers/Pilots/Scientists/Billionaire businessmen, sadly totally the floodgates opened after Brexit the UK got flooded with economic migrants with none of the skills above. British State pension use to be one of the best in Europe when it had a manufacturing base that supported paying, that has declined into one of the lowest worst in Europe over the last few decades, Boris Johnson had that as one of his main policies in his manifesto before he got elected known as triple lock pensions rise, that got cancelled after his party got elected, so Boris cancelled everything the "voters" wanted basically lied to cheated on them. Boris also pledged £1 trillion green plan for the British taxpayers to pay down that sum of money was not in his Conservative party manifesto that got them voted into power either, the British voters were starting to feel totally disillusioned with Boris Johnson & the Conservatives feel like the had been totally cheated that elected him. Final straw was the partying during covid lockdowns. Westminster were caught out partying breaking every covid rule in the book they ever made all he draconian covid rules they imposed on the British public, the opposition four party were just as bad caught out doing boozing parties when British pubs were shuttered down, social gathering were banned.

UK British Government is basically a 3 tier system National/County (US State)/ Local (US small towns). UK had a 4 tier system when they were in the European Union that was the driving force for Brexit the British Euro MP's cost $250,000 a year and normally left with $6 million dollar pensions for serving one term, plus it cost the membership fees cost the British taxpayers an extra £545 billion over the years, the voter did not feel that the UK was getting good value for money never really got much back in return, the smaller countries basically paid nothing in got the same one vote that could veto anything the UK wanted, outnumbered the small countries got a lot out of the UK as they always won the vote on everything as a bigger mass, that's why the British voter voted to leave, Westminster dragged their feet as being a Euro MP was thier next career move with nice pension, to add to there UK Government pension.

UK had it's local election on Thursday Boris Johnson's Conservative party vote was totally wiped out by British "voters" for not delivery anything in his manifesto he promised, and delivering totally the opposite that was not in his manifesto a £1 trillion green plan. British media painting it as his party broke covid rule they made, when all the political parties have done the same. Basically it was a bit like US mid term elections protest vote, but worse both the Conservative got totally obliterated the Labour party vote was poor, bunch of totally unelectable Lib Dems a bunch of wet drips got the vote that nobody likes or would ever vote for.

Most of the British voters had ballet box choices Conservative, Labour, SNP, Lib Dems, & Greens they should have had another option box for NONE OF THEM, non-of-them would won by a landslide majority British politicians are absolutely bloody useless the whole bloody lot of them, basically nobody turned up to vote anyway.

Not interested in politicians or politics one little personally, mbukukanyau you are absolutely right LOL they are all one big bloody joke British voters that voted Conservative ended up with none of the pre-election manifesto they promised none of it got delivered, UK voters ended up getting Boris Green Party instead, Green Party only got just under 1% of the vote at the last UK General Election 99% of British voters never voted for green policy, it's being legislated in by the elected Government.
 

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More guts than Roger B. Smith?
If General Motors were a country, it would have a GNP comparable to Albania. You may rest assured that its place on the GNP list would have been higher during Roger Smith's tenure at the helm during the 1980s. Neither Mary Barra nor Roger Smith had dictatorial powers. These are executives of public corporations. They carry-out the policies of their board of directors. This is not to say that they don't have to convince their board which policies to approve. The point is that these are not one-person decisions.

I believe that it is fair to ask questions about the success of a chairmanship. The buck stops at the top. Mary Barra was name CEO of GM after an international economic disaster followed by massive disruptions in the political and economic spaces. She is leading GM through massive technological changes that are reshaping the Globe's economic terrain. However, we are at best reaching the middle of these changes. Roger Smith took over GM following the beginning of economic upheaval characterized primarily by dramatic increases in the price of petroleum. This change dramatically widened the door for Japanese brands to exploit the North American and European markets.

Roger Smith has been called the last of GM's old time executives. However, he was significant in that he came from GM's finance side instead of the engineering side that had produced most of GM's previous top people. The test of a corporate leader is where the company ends up rather than where it starts. I am hard pressed to name any material change made during the Smith Era that is still with GM today. Mary Barra is female, but she gives me the impression that she is leading GM toward a reinterpretation of the GM of yore. As was the case of GM leaders of yore, she is a product of the engineering side of GM. The Smith Era saw horizontal integration into areas that the company has since divested. Barra is leading the company to vertically integrate supplemented by horizontal integration into markets that exploit the resources of developed as part of its vertical integration. BrightDrop comes to mind.

Force to make a choice between Roger Smith and Mary Barra, then it is Mary in a walk. However, the decisions made during the Smith Era then and the Barra Era now are corporate decisions. They have lots of peoples' fingerprints on them.
 

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If General Motors were a country, it would have a GNP comparable to Albania. You may rest assured that its place on the GNP list would have been higher during Roger Smith's tenure at the helm during the 1980s. Neither Mary Barra nor Roger Smith had dictatorial powers. These are executives of public corporations. They carry-out the policies of their board of directors. This is not to say that they don't have to convince their board which policies to approve. The point is that these are not one-person decisions.

I believe that it is fair to ask questions about the success of a chairmanship. The buck stops at the top. Mary Barra was name CEO of GM after an international economic disaster followed by massive disruptions in the political and economic spaces. She is leading GM through massive technological changes that are reshaping the Globe's economic terrain. However, we are at best reaching the middle of these changes. Roger Smith took over GM following the beginning of economic upheaval characterized primarily by dramatic increases in the price of petroleum. This change dramatically widened the door for Japanese brands to exploit the North American and European markets.

Roger Smith has been called the last of GM's old time executives. However, he was significant in that he came from GM's finance side instead of the engineering side that had produced most of GM's previous top people. The test of a corporate leader is where the company ends up rather than where it starts. I am hard pressed to name any material change made during the Smith Era that is still with GM today. Mary Barra is female, but she gives me the impression that she is leading GM toward a reinterpretation of the GM of yore. As was the case of GM leaders of yore, she is a product of the engineering side of GM. The Smith Era saw horizontal integration into areas that the company has since divested. Barra is leading the company to vertically integrate supplemented by horizontal integration into markets that exploit the resources of developed as part of its vertical integration. BrightDrop comes to mind.

Force to make a choice between Roger Smith and Mary Barra, then it is Mary in a walk. However, the decisions made during the Smith Era then and the Barra Era now are corporate decisions. They have lots of peoples' fingerprints on them.
To be fair Mary has a yes board. She has appointed all members of her board, so its not exactly an 'independent board' in the classical sense.
 
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