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Kyoto could mean fewer trucks to buy
GM Canada head issues warning
Full-size vehicles could be dropped

TONY VAN ALPHEN
BUSINESS REPORTER

HAMILTON - Canada's auto industry will not be able to offer many models to consumers if Ottawa implements new fuel economy rules during the next few years, says the head of the country's biggest vehicle producer.

Michael Grimaldi, president of General Motors of Canada Ltd., said yesterday federal proposals to cut fuel use in new models are unattainable because of lack of proper technology and extra costs that would make them unaffordable to consumers.

If autos need to improve fuel economy by 25 per cent to meet Canada's commitment to the international Kyoto environmental accord by the end of the decade, a lot of full-size pickup trucks and cars will no longer be on the market, Grimaldi told reporters after an auto parts conference here.

"Many of those vehicles probably will not be for sale in this country if we are regulated to achieve a standard that we think currently cannot technologically be achieved," he warned.

Grimaldi said some technology can reduce fuel use and emissions, but may add $5,000 to the price of a vehicle and make it unaffordable to consumers.

"What good is the technology if it (the auto) doesn't have a market," he added.

Auto makers unsuccessfully sought a credit in this year's federal budget to help spur sales of gasoline-electric hybrid models.

Grimaldi said auto makers will keep pushing for federal support to improve fuel economy and reduce pollution, but they are worried.

"We've had extensive dialogue with government," he noted. "All the manufacturers are very concerned."

A recent report for the federal government on auto sector competitiveness indicated gross domestic product would drop 8 to 16 per cent if Canada implements the Kyoto accord, costing 40,000 to 80,000 jobs, according to the industry.

The U.S. is not supporting the Kyoto accord, which would cause huge problems in the production of different vehicles for the Canadian and American markets, he said.

Full Article Here

 

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Whats it with the Oil Crises? This means fewer full sized trucks for them up north? There is no shortage of oil is there? How can you explain the rise in gas cost? is it a conspiracy to get people to buy smaller cars... I just don't understand this at all, It seems like an Imaginary issue being pushed to be a reality, dosn't it?..
 

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I like fast, powerful cars just like everybody else, but I think the time has come to really invest in alternative energy sources. So far, the only other type of vehicles out there that are environmentally friendly are the gas/electric hybrids. As we all know, they are not the most desireable.

I honestly think we should go the route of hydrogen as a vehicle fuel. I believe in time and with the needed capital investment, it will prove to be better in every way to gasoline. From what I have read, hydrogen has at least three times the energy than gasoline! At one of the auto shows this year, Mazda had a RX-8 running on hydrogen gas with just a few modifications. Believe me, I dont want to drive a 10 second 0-60 mph car. But i also dont want to pay $2.05 for gas like I am now.

I dont think the automakers care what fuel they use; Gasoline/Ethanol/Hydrogen. As long as people demand one type of fuel, that is what they will migrate to. I just hope people start to realize that gasoline is not a viable long term fuel that we can depend on. Sorry to rant, but I am tired of paying huge $$$ for gas.
 

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Wonderful, Ottawa. At least Canada gets the fact that we are burning and wasting to much gas. Soon, we, America will have stricter fuel economy laws (yeah...right) and we will be able to get on with life without living in a world poured down with oil.
 

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Grimaldi said some technology can reduce fuel use and emissions, but may add $5,000 to the price of a vehicle and make it unaffordable to consumers.

What good is the technology if it (the auto) doesn't have a market," he added.
Mr. Grimaldi, if there are no alternatives there will be a market, people willl eventually have to buy some sort of vehicle (hopefully from GM). If it is a legislated piece of technology, all manufacturers will have the same costs, so no single auto maker will be penalized unfairly.

Better get to work boys!

:angry: :angry: For those of you in Ontario, check this out....Dalton, don't tax my Timmy's!!!! :angry: :angry:
 

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Whats it with the Oil Crises? This means fewer full sized trucks for them up north? There is no shortage of oil is there? How can you explain the rise in gas cost? is it a conspiracy to get people to buy smaller cars... I just don't understand this at all, It seems like an Imaginary issue being pushed to be a reality, dosn't it?..
no, there is no oil shortage. it's OPEC refusing to produce. i don't know why we don't push them harder.

Soon, we, America will have stricter fuel economy laws (yeah...right) and we will be able to get on with life without living in a world poured down with oil.
actually, CAFE requirements are getting more strict here, but mostly for light trucks really.... for now. hybrids are still very expensive cars to produce, and difficult to sell at a reasonable price. the Prius starts at $20,510 and that, i'll bet you $50, is a heavily reduced price. they probably cut the cost, and make it up elsewhere just to sell the cars. in order for the cars to actually be profitable for the automakers, most regular people wouldn't be able to afford them. that's just hybrids. think of fuel cells and other technologies. the other problem is that with toughening regs on particulates (soot) and NOx (oxides of nitrogen), diesels in cars will soon be a thing of the past, too. what a shame, as that would be another good economical choice. VW's TDI Jetta gets around 50mpg, and it's not noisy or stinky at all. it's actually hard to tell it's a diesel at all just listening to it. there do need to be better economical choices out there, but there also has to be a little more room in the regulations since it's obvious that most automakers haven't got a really good solution to the problem yet.
 

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Oh for Christ's sake. There so much godda%n oil in the world it's ridiculous. On top of that the oil industry knows full well how to make octane (gas) if necessary. It's a very simple chemical formula after all.

NEWSFLASH!!! All cars and most trucks built today are LEV's!!!! A suburban is an LEV!!! The amount of problem gases being put out by auto emissions today are miniscule, and getting even better. The LS2 is an LEV-II for crying out loud!!! That's practically no emissions at all!

Oh yeah, CO2 is a problem. Sure it is. Plant more trees. Who doesn't like trees? Problem solved. :)

I wish the eco-nazis could figure out when a problem is solved.
 

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Ahh the legacy of Jeanny Cretin.
This news is going to mean the next GTO will likely not come to Canada.
I wonder what farmers will drive when Kyoto is enforced?
In Canada one ton trucks are exempt from lux tax. However cars and half and three quarter ton trucks are not. Why not tax the one ton trucks first then worry about the cars next.
I really hope the cylinder deactivation and hybrids work better than expected or used large cars and full size trucks are going to go up in price.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Originally posted by Canuck@Apr 16 2004, 10:38 PM
Ahh the legacy of Jeanny Cretin.
This news is going to mean the next GTO will likely not come to Canada.
I wonder what farmers will drive when Kyoto is enforced?
Sounds like a job for....another Daewoo import!

 

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I wonder how diesels are going to do with the new rules?
VW sells tons of diesels. Could this be more trouble for VW even though they sell small cars.
 

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Personal vehicles are not the problem, it is the factories that put out the majority of the pollution. Living in Red Deer, Canada we have a large petroleum upgrader right by the city. They make the high grade plastics (among other things), that we use every day. The plant is only one of three or four in the world that does so. This plant puts more pollution in the air in one hour than all the vehicles combined in the province put out in a day. It isn't just Carbon Dioxide, nasty stuff that causes disorders in living things. It is these types of plants that should reduce their emissions by 25%. Leave the cars alone for now you have bigger fish to fry Ottawa. On the other hand if they do go after the plants the cost will come back onto the consumer anyway so we're screwed either way :(
 

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Canuck Posted on Apr 17 2004, 04:20 AM
  I wonder how diesels are going to do with the new rules?
VW sells tons of diesels. Could this be more trouble for VW even though they sell small cars. 

read my last post.... athough i'm not sure how it applies to Canada, i'm sure that it's not much different... seems your emissions laws and fuel economy regs are actually getting worse than ours...


the other problem is that with toughening regs on particulates (soot) and NOx (oxides of nitrogen), diesels in cars will soon be a thing of the past, too. what a shame, as that would be another good economical choice. VW's TDI Jetta gets around 50mpg

this sucks. do they want fuel economy for the masses, or better air quality? actually, it sounds to me like they want to kill the car. Ralph Nader is a [email protected]@rd. i blame him for starting all this crap!! green party my arse.... CAR HATERS!! GET A LIFE!!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Originally posted by MTRANS@Apr 16 2004, 11:39 PM
On the other hand if they do go after the plants the cost will come back onto the consumer anyway so we're screwed either way :(
Or all the plants can shut down and we can let emissions thick China produce all of our vehicles.
 

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The world may be "awash in oil" for now, but the long term trend points towards a crunch. New oil reserves are not being discovered at the same pace as consumption is going up; countries like China and India are industrializing, meaning that the near-term trend for demand is not likely to slack off.

The other problem is that the cheapest, most plentiful reserves still sit in the most politically unstable part of the world - mainly the Middle East.

Knowing that the auto industry cannot turn on a dime, it seems prudent to encourage better fuel efficiency now to prepare for more expensive (and perhaps less stable) supply in the future.

As far as global warming is concerned - the scientific consensus is that the threat is real. Can anybody guarantee what the effects will be - no, of course not. Models are built on existing knowledge. But, given the potential outcomes (climate change, increased "extremes" in weather with associated property and economic damage), again it seem prudent to start making some moves now to reduce CO2 emissions.

Now, I still think to most logical way to do this is a widespread "carbon tax" that uses market forces to discourage use of fuels that produce CO2. In Canada, though, talk of such taxes drives the oil industry (and the provincial governments of oil-producing provinces) completely mental, so doing the logical thing isn't even on the table. So, doing the next best thing using existing legislative tools is probably better than doing nothing.

As much as I like cars, I'd rather drive something a little smaller and slower now than deal with economic and climatic problems later.
 

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I'm totally convinced that the internal combustion engine is the root of all pollution evils. I'm gonna start riding my bike to work. Of course, I will have to leave earlier from my typically-American, environmentally-friendly, air-conditioned to 66 degrees in the summer/heated to 70 degrees in the winter, 5,000 square-foot-house, all of it "completely" used by the two of it inhabitants.

Methinks there's more to the solution than killing off Hummers.

I couldn't let a Sunday go by without a bit of sardonicism.
 

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Canadian GM dealers in 1998 we sold 9% of GM total vehicle sales, but we sold 21% of thier fullsize trucks.

Canadian's love trucks so to take them away would mean doing away with bush workers, oil feild workers,hunters, boaters, cottagers, snowplowers,miners,lumber yards, and so many others that it would kill the country.
 

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Originally posted by doh@Apr 19 2004, 11:49 AM
Canadian's love trucks so to take them away would mean doing away with bush workers, oil feild workers,hunters, boaters, cottagers, snowplowers,miners,lumber yards, and so many others that it would kill the country.
if we're that dependent on large vehicles, we might wanna wean ourselves off them a bit. i know there are lotsa businesses and industries that really do require large pickups and other trucks, but will our country wither and die without them?
 

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I'm sure at some point in the future, there will be an oil shortage, but from what I recently read that is something like 70 to 90 years away.

With the current games that OPEC is playing, you would think that it would get the governments and manufacturers onside with the alternate fuel source folks to develop a solution that would provide similar power to what we currently have, and yet be clean.

Then we can tell OPEC "sorry, we don't need you anymore".

Doesn't BMW have a hydrogen powered 5-series in the UK?
 

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i know there are lotsa businesses and industries that really do require large pickups and other trucks, but will our country wither and die without them?
YES!
every construction worker needs a truck,or a van,so do all service industry jobers,painters,plumbers,maintanance,and so on..
I sure as hell dont see myself carrying ladders and tools straped to the roof of a litle econo car :blink:
not that some people dont try,there was a funny pic on the net somewhere when someone loaded bunch of plywood sheets on top of their small car and colapsed/destroyed the suspension :rolleyes: :lol:
that Kyoto accord is a bunch of horsepoop imo,
I dont like polution anymore than anyone else,but unless they make cars run on water you will have some deadly fumes coming outa the tailpipe always.
if the auto mfgs were serious about reducing emisions/ increasing fuel efficiency its as close as the CSRvalve heads see www.coatesengine.com
the design of this engine makes for more hp/torque,less friction, less polutants,and best of all no need to change the oil as it doesnt circulate thru the heads,
just remains in the crankcase.
can you imagine how many billions of gallons of oil could we could save if all cars were retrofited with these heads.
there are other better more eficient engines out there such as www.dyna-cam.com
and ox2engine.com,
how about better Infinately variable tranny such as this;www.torvec.com!
why dont GM get the rights to use these more efficient engines in their cars/trucks is a beyond my understanding
 
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