[Ed753]

actually I would argue Honda's lack of free flow options has done little to impact the sales of their models. Some people like the fact that the choices are made for them. Honda has been doing this for years and it has had no negative affect.

And the dealers, plant and supply chain also like it, because it’s much easier for many aspects of the entire manufacturing, distribution, inventory and selling process.

First of all the most efficient Malibu gets 37mpg hwy, not 35mpg so if GM really wanted to play that game they would trail Altima by 38mpg. Again I repeat- no other midsize car gets 38mpg standard. If your argument is that the Malibu is DOA simply because it doesn’t get 38mpg than the same can be said for Camry, accord and Fusion. Only the Fusion 1.6T will get 37 or 38mpg in the Fusion, that engine is not standard. Non hybrid Camry cant touch 38mpg. When the Sonata came out it was the only midsize sedan to get 35mpg hwy (not that 90% of drivers do most driving on hwy) and yet it didn’t decimate sales of the competition. Sonata's mileage was a factor in its success, but it didn't push Accord, Camry or Altima out of the market. In fact, supply constraints along with an improving field have kept Sonata in 3rd, 4th or even 5th place in the segment most months.

1st you are comparing the Malibu ECO, which is GM hybrid offering, albeit of mild variety, but you can’t pick and choose who and what your competition is, the buyer does that.

The new Sonata’s (and sister Optima) which occurred almost overnight, should not be dismissed, the 35 MPG, was but one facet of the cars “value proposition”.

You then contradict yourself, saying the Sonata had hurt others sales, even though they’ve been making them WFO almost since its launch.

what GM vehicle has debuted over the last few years that hasnt been called overpriced? To many of these folks EVERY GM model is overpriced. They find the cheapest competitor and then say GM model X is overpriced because it costs more than that competitor. ATS, Cruze, SRX, Regal, etc. have all been called overpriced on these forums.

The current Malibu (which should be at least part what the new Malibu is benchmarked against?) is relatively close, MSRP to MSRP, the new one has more content, more refined and in almost every aspect a more significant vehicle, everything being equal it will command a higher ATP, but the majority of the current 2012 Malibu’s are selling in the $17,000 - $20,000 range, with LS and employee purchases even lower than that. Therefore it’s easy to argue that the 2013 Malibu is priced significantly higher, and through May, selling like crap, not because it’s a bad car, but because it’s overpriced.

 

[454SSChevy]

Remember they have the Regal GS. No way are they gonna let the Chevy out power the Buick. They had to hold it back of course. Plus it probably helped with better MPG ratings.

And once again Chevrolet is held back from truly being world class and kicking Ford or Hyundai's butt. All for the sake of Buick. Just sickening. And not let a Chevrolet out power a Buick?? Please. It's a Buick.

 

[BigAls87Z28]

Selling like crap? 25k units is not crap, even with incentives.

 

[1487]

And the dealers, plant and supply chain also like it, because it’s much easier for many aspects of the entire manufacturing, distribution, inventory and selling process.



1st you are comparing the Malibu ECO, which is GM hybrid offering, albeit of mild variety, but you can’t pick and choose who and what your competition is, the buyer does that.

The new Sonata’s (and sister Optima) which occurred almost overnight, should not be dismissed, the 35 MPG, was but one facet of the cars “value proposition”.

You then contradict yourself, saying the Sonata had hurt others sales, even though they’ve been making them WFO almost since its launch.



The current Malibu (which should be at least part what the new Malibu is benchmarked against?) is relatively close, MSRP to MSRP, the new one has more content, more refined and in almost every aspect a more significant vehicle, everything being equal it will command a higher ATP, but the majority of the current 2012 Malibu’s are selling in the $17,000 - $20,000 range, with LS and employee purchases even lower than that. Therefore it’s easy to argue that the 2013 Malibu is priced significantly higher, and through May, selling like crap, not because it’s a bad car, but because it’s overpriced.

The Korean sedans have proven popular for a HOST of reasons. I didnt say otherwise. I said that the mere presence of the 35mpg Sonata didnt mean people suddenly stopped visiting Honda, Toyota and Nissan showrooms. Early on the Sonata was getting into the #3 or 4 sales slot in the class, but once incentives were cranked up amongst the competition and the new camry hit the market the Sonata began dropping in sales ranking. I never contradicted myself. having best in class mpgs is a nice selling point, but many people are not going to buy a car strictly based on that- especially when the extra mpgs add up to saving $100-$200 or less a year at the pump.

as for the Malibu, let's wait to see the EPA figures before we pronounce it DOA vs the Altima. A few years ago people were predicting doom and gloom because of the Sonata. NOw the new perfect midsize sedan is the Altima solely because it gets 38mpg hwy. Do all of GM's competitors have to go back to the drawing board or just GM?

The 2013 Malibu is going to be a tough sell vs a 2012 with thousands on the hood. That should be obvious. Once the 2012s disappear so will the generous incentives. The lower trims of the 2013 wont be much more than the old Malibu, but without incentives you will likely see sales dip. The altimas sales started to trend down as supplies of the discounted 2012 dried up in recent months. I doubt the 2013 will do as well as the discounted 2012 in the early months.

 

[Ed753]

………
Therefore it’s easy to argue that the 2013 Malibu is priced significantly higher, and through May, selling like crap, not because it’s a bad car, but because it’s overpriced.

Selling like crap? 25k units is not crap, even with incentives.

I said 2013, so far, 5 months, 4,965 = 1,000 a month, don’t count January and February if you like, then it’s still only 1,650 month.

The Korean sedans have proven popular for a HOST of reasons. I didnt say otherwise. I said that the mere presence of the 35mpg Sonata didnt mean people suddenly stopped visiting Honda, Toyota and Nissan showrooms. Early on the Sonata was getting into the #3 or 4 sales slot in the class, but once incentives were cranked up amongst the competition and the new camry hit the market the Sonata began dropping in sales ranking. I never contradicted myself. having best in class mpgs is a nice selling point, but many people are not going to buy a car strictly based on that- especially when the extra mpgs add up to saving $100-$200 or less a year at the pump.

as for the Malibu, let's wait to see the EPA figures before we pronounce it DOA vs the Altima. A few years ago people were predicting doom and gloom because of the Sonata. NOw the new perfect midsize sedan is the Altima solely because it gets 38mpg hwy. Do all of GM's competitors have to go back to the drawing board or just GM?

The 2013 Malibu is going to be a tough sell vs a 2012 with thousands on the hood. That should be obvious. Once the 2012s disappear so will the generous incentives. The lower trims of the 2013 wont be much more than the old Malibu, but without incentives you will likely see sales dip. The altimas sales started to trend down as supplies of the discounted 2012 dried up in recent months. I doubt the 2013 will do as well as the discounted 2012 in the early months.

1) They’ve been making the Sonata WFO almost since its launch, its eating away at all competitors as much as it physically can.

2) OK, I agree, but are you expecting the 2.5L base to be at or above the ECO!? - No because Nissan can only make so many, but you can bet they won’t be discount $7,000 like the current Malibu .

3) Agreed, but will all the future 2012 buyers immediately, shift to purchasing the 2013, or since they are going to be spending +$5,000 more, look at a bunch of other cars available in the higher price point?


I like you, am expecting a sales dip, which I equate that to being overpriced…… So I must ask, do you agree or disagree the car is overpriced!? :blink:

 

[krusshall]

Must be overpriced.

New 2012 Camry L
Model# 2514 Stock#: 2250331SOLD- CALL FOR AVAILABILITY

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Automatic Transmission, A/C, Star Safety, CD, 10 Airbags, Toyoguard

MSRP: $24,394.00

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New 2012 Camry SE
Model# 2546 Stock#: 2250307
Automatic Transmission, A/C, Star Safety, CD, 10 Airbags, Toyoguard

MSRP: $25,139.00

INTERNET SALES PRICE: $20,977.00



New 2012 Camry XLE
Model# 2540 Stock#: 2250351

Automatic Transmission,A/C, Star Safety, CD, 10 Airbags, Toyoguard

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INTERNET SALES PRICE: $22,577.00
New 2012 Camry LE Hybrid
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Automatic Transmission,A/C, Star Safety, CD, 10 Airbags, Toyoguard

MSRP: $27,469.00

INTERNET SALES PRICE: $23,977.00

 

[1487]

I said 2013, so far, 5 months, 4,965 = 1,000 a month, don’t count January and February if you like, then it’s still only 1,650 month.



1) They’ve been making the Sonata WFO almost since its launch, its eating away at all competitors as much as it physically can.

2) OK, I agree, but are you expecting the 2.5L base to be at or above the ECO!? - No because Nissan can only make so many, but you can bet they won’t be discount $7,000 like the current Malibu .

3) Agreed, but will all the future 2012 buyers immediately, shift to purchasing the 2013, or since they are going to be spending +$5,000 more, look at a bunch of other cars available in the higher price point?


I like you, am expecting a sales dip, which I equate that to being overpriced…… So I must ask, do you agree or disagree the car is overpriced!? :blink:

sales dip is inevitable due to lack of incentives and building of inventory. That doesnt mean the car is overpriced. Its overpriced if you believe the Malibu should be cheaper than its main rivals simply because its a chevy. Its amazing how people who have never sat inside of or driven the car are sure that the car costs too much. I think the car is competitively priced, its not a pure value proposition but its competitive. The Fusion costs just as much and yet no one seems to be concerned about that car.

 

[Ed753]

sales dip is inevitable due to lack of incentives and building of inventory. That doesnt mean the car is overpriced. Its overpriced if you believe the Malibu should be cheaper than its main rivals simply because its a chevy. Its amazing how people who have never sat inside of or driven the car are sure that the car costs too much. I think the car is competitively priced, its not a pure value proposition but its competitive. The Fusion costs just as much and yet no one seems to be concerned about that car.

They've been building them since the beginning of the year (ECO version) they've only sold 5,000 (not counting June) from what I've saw, inventory is well established. Does anyone know when the standard 2.5L is arriving?

If we go back to the beginning of this "pissing match" the OP said the car had all kinds of upgrades and new content, yet almost the same price (MSRP) - I then brought up the wheel-barrow of cash the current Malibu has had (for years, not months) and I having the expectation that the rebates wouldn't be as aggressive, the new Malibu is going to be a lot higher priced. The rebuttal was that I couldn't compare the 2012 to the 2013, even though he could!? :fall:

I followed those comments up with the fact that the market can only absorb so many $25K mid-size sedans..............

I'm anxiously awaiting the 2013 with 2.5L base engine +35 MPG hwy. and $5,000 in total discount/incentives. :yup:

 

[1487]

They've been building them since the beginning of the year (ECO version) they've only sold 5,000 (not counting June) from what I've saw, inventory is well established. Does anyone know when the standard 2.5L is arriving?

If we go back to the beginning of this "pissing match" the OP said the car had all kinds of upgrades and new content, yet almost the same price (MSRP) - I then brought up the wheel-barrow of cash the current Malibu has had (for years, not months) and I having the expectation that the rebates wouldn't be as aggressive, the new Malibu is going to be a lot higher priced. The rebuttal was that I couldn't compare the 2012 to the 2013, even though he could!? :fall:

I followed those comments up with the fact that the market can only absorb so many $25K mid-size sedans..............

I'm anxiously awaiting the 2013 with 2.5L base engine +35 MPG hwy. and $5,000 in total discount/incentives. :yup:

The ECO has a base price of $26k and has been sold alongside the discounted 2012 version. Are you really surprised at the sale rate? Im not prepared to suggest early sales of the ECO are an accurate prediction of how the line will do as a whole. The LS will be $3k cheaper and the regular Malibu will have more power and a larger trunk. The market has been absorbing $25k midsize sedans for many years. The current Malibu has done well, see no reason the new one wont follow suit.

 

[1487]

They've been building them since the beginning of the year (ECO version) they've only sold 5,000 (not counting June) from what I've saw, inventory is well established. Does anyone know when the standard 2.5L is arriving?

If we go back to the beginning of this "pissing match" the OP said the car had all kinds of upgrades and new content, yet almost the same price (MSRP) - I then brought up the wheel-barrow of cash the current Malibu has had (for years, not months) and I having the expectation that the rebates wouldn't be as aggressive, the new Malibu is going to be a lot higher priced. The rebuttal was that I couldn't compare the 2012 to the 2013, even though he could!? :fall:

I followed those comments up with the fact that the market can only absorb so many $25K mid-size sedans..............

I'm anxiously awaiting the 2013 with 2.5L base engine +35 MPG hwy. and $5,000 in total discount/incentives. :yup:

Malibu is one car in the midsized market. The korean cars are already selling with minimal incentives. Altima and Fusion are being replaced which means less incentives. New Accord comes this fall and Honda never really piles on cash incentives. Camry is entering 2nd model year. The market is changing, the 2012 was old and needed incentives to compete against newer competitors and discounted older competitors. The days of $3k on the hood of mainstream family sedans is coming to an end because of the product cycles of the manufacturers. You wont be able to find the deals on Altima, Fusion and Malibu that existed up until now as the 2013s become widely available.

 

[Ed753]

The ECO has a base price of $26k and has been sold alongside the discounted 2012 version. Are you really surprised at the sale rate? Im not prepared to suggest early sales of the ECO are an accurate prediction of how the line will do as a whole. The LS will be $3k cheaper and the regular Malibu will have more power and a larger trunk. The market has been absorbing $25k midsize sedans for many years. The current Malibu has done well, see no reason the new one wont follow suit.

Is the ECO worth the money or not?

I never said GM can't sell a $25K mid-size sedan, what I said was: "the market can only absorb so many $25K mid-size sedans.............." Then I used the Regal as an example.

The new Malibu (selling at +/- $18,000) has done well, therefore the new Malibu at $24,000 will too!?

Malibu is one car in the midsized market. The korean cars are already selling with minimal incentives. Altima and Fusion are being replaced which means less incentives. New Accord comes this fall and Honda never really piles on cash incentives. Camry is entering 2nd model year. The market is changing, the 2012 was old and needed incentives to compete against newer competitors and discounted older competitors. The days of $3k on the hood of mainstream family sedans is coming to an end because of the product cycles of the manufacturers. You wont be able to find the deals on Altima, Fusion and Malibu that existed up until now as the 2013s become widely available.

I'm not sure what you are trying to explain here, cars priced right, don't require huge incentives? I agree 100%! :clap:

 

[krusshall]

Is the ECO worth the money or not?

I never said GM can't sell a $25K mid-size sedan, what I said was: "the market can only absorb so many $25K mid-size sedans.............." Then I used the Regal as an example.

The new Malibu (selling at +/- $18,000) has done well, therefore the new Malibu at $24,000 will too!?



I'm not sure what you are trying to explain here, cars priced right, don't require huge incentives? I agree 100%! :clap:

Man, you are so blind to reality.

Nobody argue with him anymore. The Malibu should be priced at 18,000 and the Regal should be priced at 20,000.

 

[63GrandSport001]

at $23,000 its certainly on the higher end of the spectrum as far as starting prices go for such vehicles. The price stated includes destination charge, so really its only about a $400 increase over the last Malibu.

Also comparing the price/sales of the Malibu to the price and sales of the regal is flawed. You have to take into account dealer network size as well as historical and trending sales data for Buick and Chevy.

 

[1487]

at $23,000 its certainly on the higher end of the spectrum as far as starting prices go for such vehicles. The price stated includes destination charge, so really its only about a $400 increase over the last Malibu.

Also comparing the price/sales of the Malibu to the price and sales of the regal is flawed. You have to take into account dealer network size as well as historical and trending sales data for Buick and Chevy.

The Passat with an automatic costs slightly more than Malibu. THe cheapo Passat is the base model with manual ONLY. Dont expect to find any at your local VW dealer.

 

[1487]

at some point over the last few weeks they finally added weight figures for the Malibu's other trims. Ive been wondering about this for a while. Base car is just under 3400lbs (not as bad as I thought) but by the time you get to LTZ turbo you are at a regal turbo-like 3660lbs. LT models are 3460 to 3530 lbs with the base engine. I dont think thats much different from the Fusion. Definitely significantly higher than Altima as we all expected.

 

[1487]

looked at Fusion specs. Estimated FE is as follows: Base- 22/33, ecoboost- 26-37, turbo- 23/33.

Base curb weight- 3427lbs with automatic. Total int. volume is about 3 cu ft more than Malibu.

I dont think this is the mismatch everyone has been predicting. All of things people are criticizing the Malibu for (pricing, standard FE, weight, etc.) are issues on the Fusion as well. I dont think either car will suffer sales wise due to those factors.

 

[jry]

This is odd as i have seen quite a few on the road with regular plates.

 

[motorman]

It would be nice if all automakers dropped the fictitious destination charge. Some include it when they announce pricing (like GM did above), but many don't. There's NO way to ever opt out of it. Heck, even if I buy a Corvette and pay $490 for the museum delivery, I STILL pay the destination charge. Doesn't take much to drive it across the street from the factory.

it is in the union truck drivers contracts. back in 1965 i picked my new 396 corvette up at the st louis factory and i still paid the shipping charge

 

[Lowboy]

it is in the union truck drivers contracts. back in 1965 i picked my new 396 corvette up at the st louis factory and i still paid the shipping charge

Find it hard to believe it's from the union truck drivers. Do all the imports use union drivers?
Think its more of spreading out the delivery cost on all cars. Has to cost more than $700 to deliver a car from Lordstown Ohio to southern California. What are delivery charges to Hawaii and Alaska?

 

[syr74]

Cars in this class are becoming amazingly expensive at the top of their ranges, and I can not for the life of me even began to consider a loaded Fusion when a loaded V6 300 or Charger is far more car and similar money.

Yes, but then the Charger was designed to appeal to you. For a huge portion of middle class consumers of the fairer sex, a Charger is simply a non starter. The best selling cars in the mid size segment all have large appeal to, you guessed it, women. Cars like the Charger, 300, and even the Taurus fairly reek of being aimed toward the male segment of consumers.

A goodly portion of middle and upper middle class college educated females, in fact I will go so far as to say the majority of them, are going to find very little appeal to a Charger or 300 and a whole lot not to like about them, like a Dodge badge and brash styling. Put more simply, most of the women in the above mentioned demographic wouldn't be caught dead in one. As such, until women stop representing a large portion of the buying public I would suggest you can look for large sedans with brash styling to continue to lag behind more conservative mid-sized offerings regardless of interior room, drive wheels, or even price....within the bounds of reason of course.

When most of the women mentioned above need more room that an Accord or Fusion offers they'll do what they've been doing for years now, they'll buy a crossover. Put simply, these cars can be this expensive because chicks buy cars too.