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Originally posted by sykboy@Oct 31 2003, 03:08 PM
you know, I read usa1's comments earlier and decided not to respond, I knew people would have something to say about it.  It is obvious that his avatar is from a OHC 4.6L Rustang(am I wrong?).  HA!
Yes. I have a 2003 Mustang GT. What does that have to do with my comments?

Maybe I'm biased in doubting the GM line about OHV engines in their cars. Then again, so is everyone else in the car industry since they are putting their R&D efforts elsewhere.

My points were where the industry is moving and how GM will probably lose the PR war again on this engine.

I don't design engines for a living and I don't claim to be the end all expert on these thing. As far as I can tell no one else here is a real expert either.

People tout the low cost aspects of a OHV engine. GM's accountant's like this, but I don't care if the engine is cheaper for them to build unless it means their products cost less out the door.

People tout the small size advantages of OHV engines. Where is GM using the packaging efficiencies of these motors to do things no one else can do styling wise? The hood line on the Malibu is so tall and ungainly that it looks like you could put a big block under there. The Grand Prix still has the silly-long front end overhang. The thing limiting the hood lines heights on most cars are related to the height of the MacPherson strut towers and not the engines. Maybe, the Corvette benefitted stlying wise from the OHV engine, but the XLR hood with the Northstar sure looks low and sleek insprite of it having a large OHC engine.

OHV engine (specifically 2V engines) put out lots of low end toque compared to 4V engines. That why the application in trucks makes sense. I'm not bashing GM for having OHV 2V engines in their truck models since there is a logic there.

Mark
 

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Originally posted by corey76@Oct 31 2003, 07:58 PM
Man this is crazy mad awesome!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait to see this in the Solstice!! I was wondering how they were going to keep it under $25G!!
Hi corey, dont see you around here often.

You think it will be in the solstice?
 

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Originally posted by vfr_mike@Oct 31 2003, 07:54 PM
I get really tired of the touting of OHC as "the way". Personally, I prefer OHV, mainly for it's compactness. But for other reasons as well. Want a graphic demonstration of this? Look up the difference is width of a Ford SOHC 4.6 and compare it to that of the good old 5.0/302.


:D

i honestly don't know why everyone here is getting their panties in a bunch over OHV versus OHC. SOHC is midway between OHV and DOHC engines. you get most of the benefits of OHV/DOHC, with little drawbacks. sure, they're big and bulky, but they fit well enough to go into the engine bay of the cars they're used on. and like usa1 said, the size of the engine does not have a major effect of the car or the car's styling.

me, i'd take an OHV engine. i don't believe they're any less qualified to do the job - whether that job is trudging along in a truck, or doing duty in a midsized sedan. my only beef is that the HP/ci is low compared to overhead cam engines. but as long as the power's there, does it really matter?
 

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This 3.9 liter would fit nicely in my 88 Fiero GT's engine bay. Same size as the 2.8L.

245HP + the 5 speed getrag in a 2700lb car. Cool.


I would also like to see this 3.9L engine in the Malibu Maxx Sport with the six speed manual offered in the OPEL Vectra. Grankenstein, This Maxx Sport would Rock........


Ken
 

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Originally posted by kmacleod@Nov 1 2003, 02:37 AM
This 3.9 liter would fit nicely in my 88 Fiero GT's engine bay. Same size as the 2.8L.

245HP + the 5 speed getrag in a 2700lb car. Cool.


I would also like to see this 3.9L engine in the Malibu Maxx Sport with the six speed manual offered in the OPEL Vectra. Grankenstein, This Maxx Sport would Rock........


Ken
I've never heard something about a 6 speed manual on the Vectra :blink:
 

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Originally posted by kmacleod@Nov 1 2003, 02:37 AM
This 3.9 liter would fit nicely in my 88 Fiero GT's engine bay. Same size as the 2.8L.

245HP + the 5 speed getrag in a 2700lb car. Cool.


I would also like to see this 3.9L engine in the Malibu Maxx Sport with the six speed manual offered in the OPEL Vectra. Grankenstein, This Maxx Sport would Rock........


Ken
A L67( supercharged 3800) will do just fine.

Check out this guy's Fiero.
Fierox
 

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Originally posted by gerardo_zg+Nov 1 2003, 07:49 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gerardo_zg @ Nov 1 2003, 07:49 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-kmacleod@Nov 1 2003, 02:37 AM
This 3.9 liter would fit nicely in my 88 Fiero GT's engine bay. Same size as the 2.8L.

245HP + the 5 speed getrag in a 2700lb car. Cool.


I would also like to see this 3.9L engine in the Malibu Maxx Sport with the six speed manual offered in the OPEL Vectra. Grankenstein, This Maxx Sport would Rock........


Ken
I've never heard something about a 6 speed manual on the Vectra :blink:[/b][/quote]
Gerardo,

Check out www.vauxhall.co.uk or www.opel.de for info. on the six speed manual.......


Ken
 

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Wow! If this could find its way into a Solstice, that would be something to see. I've been assuming the 240 HP numbers thrown around for the show Sosltice weren't realistic from a supercharged Ecotec, but this sounds like it could be the engine to shame the Boxster and Z4.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and my checkbook ready.
 

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Originally posted by garyhoov@Nov 1 2003, 11:01 PM
Wow! If this could find its way into a Solstice, that would be something to see. I've been assuming the 240 HP numbers thrown around for the show Sosltice weren't realistic from a supercharged Ecotec, but this sounds like it could be the engine to shame the Boxster and Z4.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and my checkbook ready.
240hp is realistic for the ecotec.
 

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Originally posted by Erunion@Nov 1 2003, 07:13 PM

240hp is realistic for the ecotec.
Maybe . . . with expensive materials to withstand the higher stresses required, but if it was truly realistic in a reasonably priced production car that needs to be reliable for 150,000 miles, why is the number on the a Saturn Ion Red-Line (which will have a supercharged ecotec) only "approx. 200 HP"?

Ion Red-Line
 

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I hate GM suits. The new 3.9 engine may be one of the best V-6's on the planet and some sock puppet GM suit labels it and the new 3.5 , VALUE ENGINES, while the new DOCH is called a PREMIUM engine. What the hell is wrong with these people. Since Honda/Toyota use DOCH engines , PREMIUM ENGINES ACCORDING TO GM SOCK PUPPETS, VALUE engines will be equated with something cheap and low tech. Whoever coined the term value engine should be hanged. What do you need to get a GM suit job? Do you go to school and get a BA in dummy.
 

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OMG this is awesome! The 3.8L has a 30% gain with the supercharger so that means the 3.9L should have at least 310hp!!!!! Not to mention it has VVT and DOD, add in a 5 or 6 speed manual and you have one hell of a car :bounce:

Oh and yoblues, no one cares about wether an engine is labeled high-value or high-feature, they only see that it has VVT, DOD and high horsepower and torque.
 

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Originally posted by garyhoov+Nov 2 2003, 12:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (garyhoov @ Nov 2 2003, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Erunion@Nov 1 2003, 07:13 PM

240hp is realistic for the ecotec.
Maybe . . . with expensive materials to withstand the higher stresses required, but if it was truly realistic in a reasonably priced production car that needs to be reliable for 150,000 miles, why is the number on the a Saturn Ion Red-Line (which will have a supercharged ecotec) only "approx. 200 HP"?

Ion Red-Line [/b][/quote]
the ION RL makes an official 205 horsepower. twistec performance has turbo'd ECOTECs for the base IONs and VUE making ~240HP. it's feasible to make a 240HP supercharged 2.0L ECOTEC. it's called more compression, more boost, and a more efficient aftercooler/intercooler for the solstice. its well within GM's ability AND power to produce the higher numbers claimed for the solstice. but GM doesn't want the ION RL to be the top of the line, which is why it won't have the top of the line FI ECOTEC. it's meant to be the middle-guy, and thus, its engine's performance reflects that.
 

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Originally posted by kmacleod+Nov 1 2003, 09:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kmacleod @ Nov 1 2003, 09:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2003, 07:49 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-kmacleod
@Nov 1 2003, 02:37 AM
This 3.9 liter would fit nicely in my 88 Fiero GT's engine bay. Same size as the 2.8L.

245HP + the 5 speed getrag in a 2700lb car. Cool.


I would also like to see this 3.9L engine in the Malibu Maxx Sport with the six speed manual offered in the OPEL Vectra. Grankenstein, This Maxx Sport would Rock........


Ken

I've never heard something about a 6 speed manual on the Vectra :blink:
Gerardo,

Check out www.vauxhall.co.uk or www.opel.de for info. on the six speed manual.......


Ken [/b][/quote]
Thanks for the link Ken, they should offer it in Mexico... soon I'm gonna test-drive a Malibu and a Vectra, it would be so cool with stick :angry:
 

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Originally posted by mackingu@Nov 1 2003, 08:43 PM

the ION RL makes an official 205 horsepower. twistec performance has turbo'd ECOTECs for the base IONs and VUE making ~240HP. it's feasible to make a 240HP supercharged 2.0L ECOTEC. it's called more compression, more boost, and a more efficient aftercooler/intercooler for the solstice. its well within GM's ability AND power to produce the higher numbers claimed for the solstice. but GM doesn't want the ION RL to be the top of the line, which is why it won't have the top of the line FI ECOTEC. it's meant to be the middle-guy, and thus, its engine's performance reflects that.
So GM is holding back their hot new performance car so it doesn't outperform a car that doesn't exist?!?!? All the while allowing the real competition (Dodge, Suburu and Mitsubishi) to embarrass the Saturn just so the Solstice will look real good if/when it actually shows up?!?!?!

Sorry, but with all due respect, that's a bit on the crazy side, isn't it?

You're right, with the proper intercooling, rods, cams, valves etc., the ecotec can produce some serious power, but those modifications cost money and reduce reliability. Remember the Solstice has been touted as an affordable car more often than it has been touted as a performance car.

If GM wants to keep costs down, and they want to use a supercharged ecotec and they've got a supercharged ecotec up and running in a Saturn, I'll lay you pretty good odds they're not going to complicate things by offering a different supercharged ecotec in the Solstice.

Maybe by then they'll have tweaked the design to produce 210-215 horsepower.

Not claiming to be an expert or anything, but I'm just trying to look at it logically. If I'm wrong, remind me of this post, and I'll send you a dollar when the real numbers are in.
 

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Sorry guys, not that impressed. I still like my Maxima's VQ better. Yes the torque peak is higher, but it's HP is overrated, while it's torque is underrated. Guys have dyno'd their 5th gen Max's and generally make ~210HP and 220TQ at the wheel. Thats about 245HP and ~260TQ with a manual tranny. (I'm pulling those numbers from memory so I may be a little off). I think the VQ is pretty much the benchmark in this category and only the "premium" v6 comes close.

At this point we are just bench racing though, lets wait to they put it in something to see. I also somehow doubt you'll see a manual tranny, I waited far to long for a GTP manual. Thats one of the main reasons that I bought the Max, GM fails to offer a manual in anything "performance oriented" other than the Vette (the Z24 doesn't count and they killed my F-Body).
 

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Yes the torque peak is higher, but it's HP is overrated, while it's torque is underrated.
Umm, oook. So basically, you're saying it's actually a lot more like a truck than Nissan actually states?
 

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Because the Cobalt will have more power. :D

Not to mention Saab and Pontiac.

Ive heard that the stock con rods on the 2.2(different from the 2.0 in FI versions) are the weakest link and those are good until about 240hp.
 

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Ecotec racing program proved the engine to around 270HP with good results WITH STOCK PIECES. New pieces aren't going to make it less reliable, like .... said. They will make it MORE reliable, reliable enough to run BOOST and a lot of it. Why is this so hard to understand? Is a forced induction motor something new?! It is done all the time! Saturn did the One Lap a couple of years ago and ran 15-18psi the whole time and eventually put a hole in the top of a piston. They were talking about 270-280HP on an otherwise stock Eco. Some (explicative deleted) just aren't going to believe anything you try to explain to them and aren't honest enough to go do their own research. They just want to remain ignorant and argue.
 

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The aluminium can handle so many PSI?
 
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