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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Given the automakers' pervasive presence in the U.S. economy and their value as symbols of industrial might, many believe they wouldn't be allowed to go under.

Beyond just selling cars, the Michigan automakers have a huge financial reach, representing millions of jobs in the supplier, sales and aftermarket sector; they each have stakes in large financial services companies selling loans, leases, insurance and, in the case of GM, mortgages; and their value as symbols of U.S. industrial might is something few politicians are willing to overlook.



full article here: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-carstocks10-2008oct10,0,6199482.story
 

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As long as our businesses believe that they are too big to fail, you will see them run their businesses inappropriately. The bailouts to giant financial institutions have taught J.P. Morgan Chase and AIG one thing: take any and all risks you want; taxpayers will tow the line of risk for you. I'm amazed that taxpayers feel an allegiance to corporations rather than to themselves. Failure of these institutions would have a very clear negative impact on the economy. There's no doubt about that. However, constantly bailing out poorly managed companies has a greater cost, in my view.

Privatized success, socialized risk is a really weak foundation on which American industry seems to be built. It hurts American industry, and it more importantly hurts individual citizens.
 

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I understand the idea of being too big to fail. The auto industry has so many obligations to so many people and other companies that if something were to happen it would negatively effect the greater economy as a whole.
This is why AIG was recued because it is a global company that employs thousands.

At this point nothing should be taken off the table in order to save this industry. No one complained when the government bailed out the airlines after 9/11 because it was a necessary evil.
 

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Protect the US auto market with high tariffs, and due it NOW.

Sure, the WTO will bleat, but we should just tell them where to go.

The survival of our nation's core industry is far more important than pleasing foreign governments or adhering to free-market principles laid down by long-dead Austrian professors.

To hell with everyone else.
 

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I feel that government intervention is not the way to go. If the companies are run in such a manner that they do not have the right products or the ability to control costs in varying market conditions the only option for them should be to close the doors.

There are countless of people that will be affected in various countries and in various others companies but that's the way things happen. Shareholders shoud have pushed management to produce a better business model especially one that cover their a$s in tough times. They didn't do it though. The business model was focused on an unbreakable market and unwavering consumer credit and now they can't correct themselves without going bankrupt.

This should be a lesson on business planning. Let them fail and build themselves up again. The individual workers and stock holders should have been preparing for something like this as well, it's a lesson in learning for everyone.
 

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They said WaMu was too big to fail
They said Feddy was too big to fail
They said Fanny was too big to fail
They said AIG was too big to fail...

need I go on?
 

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The auto industry is the soul of Michigan and much of this country. They have brought millions into the middle class. Some Americans are taking far too much for granted. Each country looks out for itself. Don't be fatally naive. And take the rest of us down with you.
 

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The auto industry is the soul of Michigan and much of this country. They have brought millions into the middle class. Some Americans are taking far too much for granted. Each country looks out for itself. Don't be fatally naive. And take the rest of us down with you.
Well said, sir.
 

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Protect the US auto market with high tariffs, and due it NOW.
That is the very same thing that lead up to, and contributed to the great depression. No thank you!!
 

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That is the very same thing that lead up to, and contributed to the great depression. No thank you!!
So the laissez-faire globalists like to tell you. It is a crock. The great depression was caused by an insane Wall Street bubble which popped, followed by the collapse of the ramshackle US banking "system".

What those tariff policies did lead up to, and contribute, was to the meteoric rise of the industries of Japan Inc, and, more recently, South Korea.

You're telling me that what we need are even more imports?Have you checked our trade deficit in, say, the last thirty years or so?

How the F is that going to help us rebuild what's left of our industrial base?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Protect the US auto market with high tariffs, and due it NOW.

Sure, the WTO will bleat, but we should just tell them where to go.

The survival of our nation's core industry is far more important than pleasing foreign governments or adhering to free-market principles laid down by long-dead Austrian professors.

To hell with everyone else.
The funny thing about import tariffs, they are often implemented when they are of the least use(or at least when they can do the most damage). When an economy is doing well, tariffs can be a positive thing. If the US had a positive fiscal position (no $10 trillion of national debt), the tariffs would let domestic manufacturers charge higher prices with less competition, but the country would be in position to pay those higher prices. Tariffs now would cause import prices to go higher, domestics to then raise their prices to potential profitibility (or at least sustainability)...at the very time when our nation and our consumers can least afford it.

The way I see it, there are 2 major problems our government and economy have:
1. greed leads us to not do anything about a potential future problem until it becomes a present problem. We want more now, we don't want to pay now to fix a problem that MAY happen in the future...but then we pay for it more dearly in the future.

2. The way our political system works, the public has picked sides. If you are conservative..you beleive in ZERO regulations. If you are a Liberal, EVERYTHING has to be regulated. Maybe the right answer is someplace in between? The problem is, say you want a LITTLE regulation to a Liberal and he/she says it is no where near enough and you are letting the big businesses run wild. Tell a Conservative you want a LITTLE regulation and they start calling you a socialist or a communist.
 

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Protect the US auto market with high tariffs, and due it NOW.

Sure, the WTO will bleat, but we should just tell them where to go.

The survival of our nation's core industry is far more important than pleasing foreign governments or adhering to free-market principles laid down by long-dead Austrian professors.

To hell with everyone else.
Thinking like this helped trigger the Great Depression.

Mark
 

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yet go to a toyota dealer or honda dealer, people seem to line up yet to buy camrys and accords.
Apparently people were having trouble last month getting outside or maybe they were too busy to get to their Honda or Toyota dealership, given Honda sales dropped over 20% and Toyota was down over 30% (year over year) your comment is just a little uninformed.
 

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The funny thing about import tariffs, they are often implemented when they are of the least use(or at least when they can do the most damage). When an economy is doing well, tariffs can be a positive thing. If the US had a positive fiscal position (no $10 trillion of national debt), the tariffs would let domestic manufacturers charge higher prices with less competition, but the country would be in position to pay those higher prices. Tariffs now would cause import prices to go higher, domestics to then raise their prices to potential profitibility (or at least sustainability)...at the very time when our nation and our consumers can least afford it.

The way I see it, there are 2 major problems our government and economy have:
1. greed leads us to not do anything about a potential future problem until it becomes a present problem. We want more now, we don't want to pay now to fix a problem that MAY happen in the future...but then we pay for it more dearly in the future.

2. The way our political system works, the public has picked sides. If you are conservative..you beleive in ZERO regulations. If you are a Liberal, EVERYTHING has to be regulated. Maybe the right answer is someplace in between? The problem is, say you want a LITTLE regulation to a Liberal and he/she says it is no where near enough and you are letting the big businesses run wild. Tell a Conservative you want a LITTLE regulation and they start calling you a socialist or a communist.
You haven't been paying attention, mjd1001. Conservatives, including conservative libertarians like Greenspan, were calling for more regulation of the financial system several years before the collapse of key financial institutions. It was many Republicans and Democrats alike who dismissed those calls.

I am a free market supporter who believes that balanced regulation is appropriate.

Your erroneous characterization of conservatives typifies the typical politicking that prevents this country's progression; Democrats think Republicans are evil, and vice versa. Of course, that leaves us with $700 billion corporate welfare plans that do little for industry and do very little for Americans.
 

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Closing trading because U.S. carmakers cannot get their act together is really misguided. There are many companies that rely heavily on exports to other nations (Boeing comes to mind) that would suffer if a trade war between nations ensued. American agribusiness relies heavily on exports, and closing down markets because Detroit cannot get its act together is painfully short-sighted.

I wish people could come up with more inspired, more meaningful solutions than welfare and protectionism for Detroit. Neither one will help them in the long-term, and none of them will help America.
 

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If GM is not too big to fail, then in my opinion, California is not too big to fail either. Cali is potentially in worse shape! Where's all of the Silicon Valley "I'm smarter than thou" types when you need them?
 
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