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Buick is in need of a lot of help. The Velite is promising, if it gets the go-ahead. The Lacrosse could be a step in the right direction, especially if some can get past the polarizing design. But what else? Buick still needs to appeal to its current group, so outlandish styling is best left to Cadillac. Does Buick need a handsome, large V-8 RWD sedan as a flagship?

Here's my thought of a good future lineup:

Lacrosse--ugh. I don't care for how it looks, but it's a nice alternative for those wanting a little more class than a Camry/Accord/Impala/Taurus offers.

Next up should be the LeSabre replacement:

Buick Super: Large, FWD, class leading interior style, immense trunk & passenger space, and an exterior that looks expensive and imposing. The engine should be the Series III 3800 with the 3900 as an option (price has to be kept down somewhere) and it should finally have a 5-speed auto. This car has to remain competitive on price.

From there the Park Avenue Replacement:

Buick Wildcat: RWD, V-8, 5-speed auto, sigma or zeta based. An exterior that is every bit as rich looking as the fabled Buicks of the '50s. Chrome and wood should abound in the interior. The current car is priced in the upper 30s to low 40s. There's no reason for the current car to be that expensive, but this replacement should fit in well in that range. Above a Chrysler 300C but below the Cadillac STS. Style, power, and luxury will have to be spot on.

Of course, at the top:

The Velite! Big Style, Big Power, Big Size. Everything a Buick should be. This convertible needs to be produced, but development money should first go to the bread-and-butter sedans. The Velite should be priced above the Saab 9-3 convertible, but below the range of the Lexus SC430 and Mercedes Benz CLK500

I don't see how the Terazza fits into Buick becoming more like Lexus. But, it's there, and we'll have to deal with it. The Rendezvous needs a full restyle. It should be the RX330 of Buick's line up. Finally, the Rainer needs to move to the Sigma platform if it's going to play in the refined league of its competitors.

What are your thoughts?
 

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Lacrosse

I Agree, it's a decent midsize car, not sure if I'd drive it, but a good car none the less.

Buick Super:

I like the name. I'd rather have Lesabre or this, but it seems that Buick thinks LUCERNE is better. I think that the Lesabre replacement shouldn't go to upscale though. Current Lesabre owners need somthing to go with. A nice family car for not alot of money.

Buick Wildcat

Agree 100%

The Velite

I agree on the target, maybe a sporty model too. ;)

I also think they need an entry level model. I'm all for a Epsilon Buick.
 

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Well I'm a little weird, in that when I go shoping for cars, I first look at powertrain.
The 3800 needs to stay. Very reliable, strong, and inexpensive. Still one of the best motors out there. I'd also like to see the 4.2 Straight 6 from the Trailblazer droped into a RWD Buick. With the success of the Hemi, bring back an old school V8, maybe a 350 V8 and have that power the full size Buick.

T-Types
Buick neesds to bring these back. Saturn is doing this with Redline, why not Buick? Also don't just put these on on little cars. Every car in the lineup needs a sport version. full gauges, Turbo or Superchaged, sport tuned suspension, Grand national stlye paint/interior. (Every car guy that I know still wants to own, in his lifetime, a regal T-Type)

Bench seats/Column Shift.
I like Split Bench Seats, they should stay an option. Column shift should stay an option. Aside from the older set. I need colum shift. As a person with a disability (the nerves in my arm are messed up) I pretty much have to everything with my left arm. This makes it very difficult/impossible to drive a stick or consul ****ing car. If we get rid of column shifting vehicles I'll never buy a new car I'll just fix older ones.

Buicks moto for today should be "Fast With Class" Not "I make boring french named cars", Pleace don't make anything named Lucerne . It's not like the French are just loved here in US
 

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Simple. Bring back style and performance. Body lines to resemble the Riviaras of the 60's with a performance pedigree of the GS Stage 1s or Grand Nationals. An LS1 isn't going to work here either. Buick has always been imaginitive with powertrains such as those used in the GS and GN. How about putting a turbo on the new High Feature V6?
 

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I believe that the Buick line should be about comfort and luxury with dependable engines. Put leather, wood trim, climate control, and a great audio system on the inside. Add a reliable V6, auto transmission, FWD or AWD, and top-of-the-line suspension to make it move. That equation would work for all vehicles in the Buick line. Buick, IMO, needs only five vehicles. If these vehicles are executed properly, the brand could easily be successful.

1. Mid-size Sedan – Regal – A five-seat sedan that is the lowest priced vehicle in the lineup.

2. Full-size Sedan – LeSabre – A six-seat sedan that should lead the lineup in sales.

3. Large Sedan – Park Avenue – A six-seat sedan with class-leading interior room.

4. Car-based SUV – Rainier – Rendezvous is the type of vehicle I’m thinking of but Rainier is a better name. A five-seat SUV with a car-like ride. Extended version with a third seat too.

5. Large Convertible – Velite – A five- or six-seat convertible with plenty of space and plenty of style.

They should offer an Ultra trim with a navigation system and an even richer looking interior on all but the Regal.
Only different size V6s are available to keep the price down but still offer excellent interior luxury.
 

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Buick LaCrosse- Great entry level sedan that will be the bulk of Buicks car sales. Good styling with strong curves and nice interior. It doesnt have to be edgy or outlandish, but smooth curves and classic styling will make Buick a Buick.


Buick mid level sedan. FWD or AWD option with 5spd auto. Powerd by the 3.9 or 5.3 V8 DoD. You can only get the 5.3 V8 with AWD. Same classic lines with smooth curves.

Buick Zeta Coupe(Camaro/GTO sized) coupe powered by a 3.6 V6 or 5.3 V8 DoD. Backed by 5 or 6spd auto-manual. Basicly the Velite-lite. More agressive curves and sharper style. Convertable option as well.

Buick large sedan. Very classy in design, but not over the top. Something bold, but not brick-like like the 300. LWB Zeta powerd by the 3.6 or the 6.0 LS2 backed by a 6spd auto.

Buick car based XUV. Lambda based crossover that will be FWD or AWD. Have it follow along the lines of the rest of Buick. 2.8 or 3.6 V6 backed by a 5spd auto. All the goodies of a SUV and a Minivan jammed into one.

Buick SUV. Based off next gen GMT360 chassis, Buick finaly breaks the rebage mold and comes out with a true SUV for Buick with its own distinct design. AWD standard. Next gen 4.2 I-6 and 5.3 V8 DoD.
 

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Skylark-(N-body-Malibu-G6) Small, FWD, coupe, sedan, hatch-back, convertible-This would be the only GM car to have each bodystyle available, a coupe and convertible like the G6 and a sedan and hatchback like the Malibu and Malibu Maxx. V6 only, standard 3900 V6 and available 3.6 DOHC V6. This a premium small mid-size car. High levels of interior trim with cloth and available leather. 16 inch standard wheels, 17 inch available chrome wheels, lots of premium options, like HID's, navigational system. Tuned for maximum quiet and smoothest ride in a small car possible.(2 portholes)


LACROSSE-(W-body-Grand Prix-Impala-Monte Carlo)-First thing I would do is add a coupe version, it would look the same as the LACROSSE, and have all the same available and standard equipment, but name it the Regal. The coupe would come with the standard 3.6 DOHC V6 standard and an available Supercharged 3.6 DOHC V6. I really would not change a thing except for adding a coupe to the line-up.(3 portholes)

LeSabre-(H-body) What happens with the LeSabre depends alot on what happens with the next gen Impala or Bonneville. The LeSabre currently shares a platform with the Bonneville, but if the next Bonneville goes RWD, the LeSabre either has to go RWD or find another FWD platform mate. I would like to see the LeSabre line expand a little, I would add a wagon, either FWD or RWD, a large wagon, but with a sporty roof line like a Magnum, but with more interior room, no 3rd seat, the Rendezvous has that anyway. Styled like the larger RWD Roadmaster(Park Avenue replacement), but a little smaller and more affordable, standard 3.6 DOHC V6 available V8, either a Northstar based or a OHV V8 with D-O-D.(3 portholes)

Roadmaster-(Sigma based)-Large RWD car, Park Avenue replacement. Standard OHV V8 with D-O-D,making about 290-300hp. Available LS2 based V8 with 390-400hp. 5 speed automatic with some sort of "tap-shift". It comes in a 5 or 6 passenger sedan and an available retractable 4-5 passenger hardtop coupe/convertible. Big, boldly styled sedan, with cues from the Velite. Lots of space inside, wood, chrome. Very American, but not a 300 rip-off, better. (4-portholes)

Riviera-(CTS-based)This a pure 4 passenger hardtop personal luxury coupe, closest to Bill Mitchels' original concept of blending a Ferrari and a Rolls Royce. (Since there should or would be a CTS coupe already available if I were in charge of GM) Standard V8 with D-O-D. Both a 6 speed manual or 5 speed automatic available. Lots of influence from the 1963 and 1971 Rivieras in the styling. Lots of high-tech (carbon-aluminum)materials inside, mixed with a little chrome and wood. One center console running through the center.(No portholes)

Rendezvous-All new Lambda platform, same capabilites as the current car, both FWD and AWD available, 3rd row seating capabilites. Standard 3900 V6 and available 3.6 DOHC V6. Full sliding sunroof available like of Cadillac SRX. Full navigation and infotainment system, HID lights, adaptive cruise control.

Rainer-Either based of the GMT300(Envoy-Trailblazer), the Sigma chassis for the Cadillac SRX or the next-gen GMT 800(Tahoe-Yukon), Should have 4 wheel independent suspension, and either RWD or AWD available. Perhaps a turbocharged 4200 I6 standard, and an available V8 either DOHC or OHV. 7 or 8 passenger capacity.

Terraza-Lambda based mini-van-FWD and AWD capacity, full luxury interior, full sun-roof. Trimmed inside like a first class 747. Standard 3.6 DOHC V6.
 

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I don't know if Buick is in all that bad of shape. It could improve but just small changes.

I think the Lacross will do well and is needed in the line up, fresher looking Century should apeal to current Century customers. 3 models Cust, Ltd and GS versions. GS should bridge the gap from Olds Intrigue customers left hanging.

Definately a new LeSabre, Full size FWD V6. Custom as an advancement from chevy's. Ltd for current Buick customers and GS for advancements from Olds. Pont. and Chevys.

Park Ave is so over due here in Canada that I am not sure what to do. A decontented Buickized DeVille would work 4.8L V8 FWD LTD and Cust. and a 5.3L V8 GS version. or maybe the 4.0L Auruora V8

Bring back the Roadmaster as a RWD between the Lesabre and the Park, 4.8L Custom and a 5.3L LTD. And Estate wagon

No SUV's No Minivans No trucks. Crossovers should come as more car like i.e. Freestyle XC90.

Bring back the Porthole ratings I liked that on the Park Ave.

Pretty close to thier current line up just refreshed.
 

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Lacrosse: I actually kind of like the Lacrosse although it is a bit stodgy. It is an improvement over the Regal and Century nameplates. When the W-Body is replaced, it can only get better, right?

Rendevous: I don't like this vehicle at ALL. I think they should bring on the Buick Centieme concept, but likely detune the powerplant unless of course you want to haul A$$. It was BEAUTIFUL a few auto shows ago and could really go toe-to-toe with the other luxury SUVs on the market.

Park Avenue: both car and name need to be retired. I agree with a previous post that the Sigma (not likely maybe) or Zeta platform needs to be used for a large, RWD, V8 sedan. Maybe the Electra name can be resurrected. I've seen the Lucerne name tossed about. I hear Lucerne and I think of dairy products.

I don't know where the Terazza fits into the equation. Does Buick the Rendevous, Terazza AND the Ranier? Four CSVs across GM is a bit much.

Ranier: I drove one of these once and it is a nice vehicle (except for that blasted interactive screenon the dash), but I'm not sure it fits in with what Buick is trying to accomplish. I'm not saying drop it, but maybe refine it or sculpt in more in line with other luxury SUVs. Give it some pizazz.

Velite: Bring it ON! Maybe a coupe variant will spring up out of that as well. Or maybe, just maybe, the Velite could be the 4-door version and the Riveria could serve as the 2-door hot coupe. I'm starting to drool.
 

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Why does everyone seem to want Buick to push into the premium luxury market. GM already has Cadillac in that area. I believe Buick should be all about a comfortable and luxurious ride with moderate engines. Pontiac should be sporty with performance engines. Cadillac should combine the two with great, luxurious interiors and awesome performance.
 

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First off, Buick needs to stand for cars, not trucks. Big sedans. Cushy 3-across bench seats. Comfort, comfort, comfort.

They're very much headed in the right direction with the LaCrosse. It's a classy looking piece of work, whether you like the styling or not. From the auto show appearance I saw, it's got lots of well fitted nice details that say loud and clear "quality product." Lots of chrome - a good thing in this direction.

They're also doing the right thing with their emphasis on quietness. They're doing lots of good, positive things they can point to toward that end. I found their press materials on the LaCrosse quieting work to be quite effective.

And keep up the emphasis on highest quality. Toward that end, I think they're making a mistake by bringing in the Rainier, as it may well drag down overall scores. Same with the Terraza. They need those JD Power bragging rights these days.

As for a flagship, it needs to be a big, audaciously styled lux sedan with RWD and a V8, and it needs to be priced at about, say, $42K. Above a Chrysler. Below a Caddy. Maybe call it a Park Avenue, but I say they've got some better names they could revive. I like Wildcat. Centurion was another good name. Electra, maybe. Century would be great if it weren't the darling of the rent-a-car fleets these days. Roadmaster's another great name that has been tarnished by products that are still remembered. Super might be good - it would surely have the advantage of focussing attention on the "Buick" part of the name.

And sorry, performance fans, a new Grand National is NOT what Buick needs.
 

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Sorry but Super, Century and Wildcat are not names for top of the line Buicks. They were all lower to middle of the line cars. The Century has been at the bottom of the range for so long, you might as well have a top of the line Chevrolet named Cavalier or a top of the line Pontiac named Sunbird. Remember the Skylark was a special edition top of the line car introduced for Buicks 50th anniversary in 1953 and it ended its run as Buicks entry level compact car in 1996. Skylark would be a great name for a Velite-type vehicle if you want to be historicaly acurate, but the average Joe consumer would probably be very confused. Wildcat was a midline car between the LeSabre and Electra, it combined the Electras large engine and the LeSabres smaller body and wheelbase, but it never was a top of the line car. Super was also a mid range model, above the Special but under the Century and Roadmaster, which was the top of the line vehicle through 1958. The Century was a combination of the Specials smaller and lighter body with the Roadmasters larger engine, but that was back in the 1950's. The Century name was retired back in 1958 and then re-introduced in 1973 as a replacement for the intermediate Skylark it was carried through as the mainstay in Buicks line-up of intermediate coupes, sedans and wagons, until it's retirement in 2005.

Top of the line Buicks were Roadmaster, Electra 225, Park Avenue. If Park Avenue is not going to be carried on to the next-gen full size Buick, the I would prefer Roadmaster or Electra to be used.



Rendevous: I don't like this vehicle at ALL. I think they should bring on the Buick Centieme concept, but likely detune the powerplant unless of course you want to haul A$$. It was BEAUTIFUL a few auto shows ago and could really go toe-to-toe with the other luxury SUVs on the market.

I think that the Centieme concept IS a glimpse at the next Rendezvous.



First off, Buick needs to stand for cars, not trucks. Big sedans. Cushy bench seats. Comfort, comfort, comfort.

The only people who soley specialize in big cushy sedans with comfort, comfort, comfort is Rolls-Royce and Bentley.....but at more than $300,000 a copy they can afford to, the realities of todays market mean that car lines have expanded to more than just cars, every manufacturer has some sort of non-car vehicle in their lineup, Buick needs them too, it's to big a market to ignore.



A carline without a SUV and Cross-over type vehicle today is dead in the water, why cant Buick have a SUV if freaking Porsche and BMW have SUV's? Mercury and Lincoln both have a truck based SUV, and crossovers comming soon. Cadillac, which is a higher end vehicle than Buick has a crossover and 3 versions of a full size SUV, including one with a pick-up bed. The fact is the the Rendezvous has been a good selling vehicle for Buick and it has helped lower the average age of Buick customers. Chrysler has a premium mini-van, Mercedes is rummored to have one comming out soon, Mercury has a premium mini-van too, so why can Buick? I would rather see Buick with a mini-van in the line-up than Cadillac.
 

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Originally posted by MCGARRETT@Jul 14 2004, 06:59 PM
Chrysler has a premium mini-van, Mercedes is rummored to have one comming out soon, Mercury has a premium mini-van too, so why can Buick? I would rather see Buick with a mini-van in the line-up than Cadillac.
Buick Terraza, IMO, is not a premium minivan. It is simply a minivan with the Buick shields on it. The exterior does not in any way appear "premium". The interior only differentiates itself from the Chevy Uplander by have a few more wood accents. It definitely does not have enough style to be considered "premium". A car-based SUV with an optional third-row would be a much better fit. Rendezvous or Rainier or SRX are more likely choices for someone shopping at Buick and Cadillac dealers. Minivan buyers aren't exactly looking for the most stylish vehicles. Rather they want functionality. They want a vehicle to get them, their kids, and their stuff from A to B. The added price from GM simply calling this vehicle a "premium" minivan will probably make it too costly for most minivan consumers anyway.

Your mention of Cadillac is irrelevent.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Originally posted by MCGARRETT@Jul 15 2004, 12:59 AM
Sorry but Super, Century and Wildcat are not names for top of the line Buicks. They were all lower to middle of the line cars...Wildcat was a midline car between the LeSabre and Electra, it combined the Electras large engine and the LeSabres smaller body and wheelbase, but it never was a top of the line car. Super was also a mid range model, above the Special but under the Century and Roadmaster, which was the top of the line vehicle through 1958.



Well, it's true they weren't top of the line models in their day, however 98+% of the buying public couldn't recite the Buick model hierarchy of the 1950s and 1960s. So, Wildcat & Super weren't chosen for historical accuracy, but rather for aural/visceral appeal with a touch of nostalgia for those that care. And for the record, Super was above Century but below Roadmaster. Super was replaced by the Electra. Roadmaster was replaced by the Electra 225. Also, in 1958, the Limited was the top model, right above Roadmaster.
 

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I agree with the fact that the Park Avenue replacement should move to Zeta. Heck the name doesn't really fit well with the others anyway, so I wouldn't be hurt if that goes. Electra sounds like a good idea. Before 91, the Park Avenue was just an Electra trim level.

-T
 

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Well, it's true they weren't top of the line models in their day, however 98+% of the buying public couldn't recite the Buick model hierarchy of the 1950s and 1960s. So, Wildcat & Super weren't chosen for historical accuracy, but rather for aural/visceral appeal with a touch of nostalgia for those that care. And for the record, Super was above Century but below Roadmaster. Super was replaced by the Electra. Roadmaster was replaced by the Electra 225. Also, in 1958, the Limited was the top model, right above Roadmaster.



If you are going for aural/visceral appeal and nostalgia Roadmaster would be way more appropriate for a top of the line Buick than Wildcat or Super, and since Roadmaster was more recently used from 1992 to 1996, its fresher in the minds of consumers than Wildcat and Super which last saw an appearance in 1970 and 1957.

Limited was used as the top of the line nameplate in 1940 and 1958, but since then it has been to diluted to be a model name, it was applied to the high spec version of every Buick model except Riviera, i.e. Century Limited, LeSabre Limited, Regal Limited..etc...etc...


You may say that there are 90% of people who dont know the difference, but how many people complain about the Impalas 2 rear tailights when Impalas had 3? You could use Bel-Air on a high end Chevrolet, but Bel-Air was once a high end nameplate for Chevrolet, but neither Super, nor Wildcat were ever top of the line Buicks, I know this, and I am much younger than the average Buick customer.



Buick Terraza, IMO, is not a premium minivan. It is simply a minivan with the Buick shields on it. The exterior does not in any way appear "premium". The interior only differentiates itself from the Chevy Uplander by have a few more wood accents. It definitely does not have enough style to be considered "premium". A car-based SUV with an optional third-row would be a much better fit. Rendezvous or Rainier or SRX are more likely choices for someone shopping at Buick and Cadillac dealers. Minivan buyers aren't exactly looking for the most stylish vehicles. Rather they want functionality. They want a vehicle to get them, their kids, and their stuff from A to B. The added price from GM simply calling this vehicle a "premium" minivan will probably make it too costly for most minivan consumers anyway.

Your mention of Cadillac is irrelevent.








UHHHHH..................what exactly is the difference from a Voyager to a Caravan to a Town & Country? Or from a Freestar to a Monterey? Those are all dressed up versions of the same mini-van? But I alway forget.....what ever GM does is alway wrong.....no matter what else any other manufacturer is doing. If mini-van buyers just wanted a vehicle to get their stuff from point A to B as you say, then Chrysler would have never introduced the Town & Country in 1989. No one would be offering leather, powe doors, sunroofs, TV and DVD players, navigation systems, AWD, ultra-sonic reverse parking assist,(all of which are available on the Terraza) etc..etc...But the Buick Terraza does not have enough style to be considered premium...but the Mercury Monterey and Chrysler Town & Country are premium?


If a car based SUV with a 3rd row seat is what Buick needs, then what is the Rendezvous? It's minivan based, unit-body, very similar to a car.

Whats wrong with a truck based luxury SUV?

Aviator and Navigator
GX470 and LX470
Mountaineer
QX56
G430

But I forget, whatever GM does is wrong....no matter what any other company does...
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Originally posted by MCGARRETT@Jul 15 2004, 06:26 PM
If you are going for aural/visceral appeal and nostalgia Roadmaster would be way more appropriate for a top of the line Buick than Wildcat or Super, and since Roadmaster was more recently used from 1992 to 1996, its fresher in the minds of consumers than Wildcat and Super which last saw an appearance in 1970 and 1957.

That's the problem with the Roadmaster name....it was used too recently on a car that wasn't exactly something a whole bunch of people currently feel nostalgic for. I actually liked the 1990s Roadmasters, but that's not the image you want in people's heads when they hear the name.

On a seperate note, I was frustrated with there being only three "venti-ports" on the Park Avenue Ultra's. We all know it should have been four and don't really know why they didn't do it that way, but I'm sure most people looking to buy them wouldn't say, "I would have gotten it if it had FOUR portholes, but with only three it lacks the prestige I need."

But anyway, names are the least of Buick's problems. Just have them stay away from arcane French references (although Velite does have a nice ring to it) and get back to something a little more....American. Design and features will help the brand first and foremost, and that's what should be focused on.
 

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The REAL problem is with Buick's image. Buick is associated with senior-citizens. What middle-aged consumer wants people to think they drive an old-person car. Especially the ones that have mid-life crises.

I believe most people consider Buick to be a good car brand*.
*just not one they would buy*

So, Buick has to CREATE some products to attract younger buyers. I don't mean teenagers and twenty-year-olds but more like mid-forties (Buick has an average consumer age of over 60, thats a 15 year drop and I think thats pretty good). The Rendezvous is EXACTLY what I'm talking about, AND, believe it or not, it is working. People are buying the Rendezvous. Buick does not need minivans nor a full-size SUV. It does not need a RWD Park Avenue either (Because of all of Buick's vehicles the PA is the most geriatric and seniors don't want RWD). It needs a sedan to attract middle-aged consumers. Leave the LeSabre and Park Avenue alone, the demographic they're designed for (senior citizens) is buying them. Keep the plush interiors but design a sedan that doesn't have the stodgy, old, boring, exterior. There are probably many consumers who like the interior of Buicks but don't want the "old-fogey" exterior. Get "younger" consumers to buy Buicks and when they reach the geriatric age it will be much easier to get them to buy the LeSabre and Park Avenue. All of which eqauls SUCCE$$.

Buick does not need to change its image. It only needs to distort it to the preferences of younger buyers.
 

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The 06 lesabre HAS to be Stylish It Needs to BE the Image Of Buick. Something Like The original Lacrosse concept.

The Park Avenue is Likely to be gone.

Lacrosse should do better sales wise then Regal.

Give Buick an epsilon , Build it sweden alongside the GM Europe Caddy. Import the Buick. not a lot say 25k vehicles

Build Velite in Both Convertible and Sedan Form.

Move The Rainier to the GMT 900 platform

Give Buick A Showy Kappa hardtop Coupe. like a Buick 928


the 06 lesabre(Lucerne?) is key I think as much Effort has gone into it as its Sister the DTS. Lutz said the 06 Lesabre would be a radical design for Buick.
 

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Originally posted by sncrducrx@Jul 20 2004, 02:25 AM
Lutz said the 06 Lesabre would be a radical design for Buick.
Now that's what I call good news.

Buick's most recent glory days, in the 50's, '60s and maybe the 70's, had cars with memorably high-key styling. Today, cars are styled for efficiency -- ackaging comes first -- and it's rare one stands out in the slightest. Give up a little of that efficiency in favor of visual drama, and you'll have brought back some of the magic.
 
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