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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Frm the Guardian UK Newspaper on Thursday 9 October 2008.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7847455

General Motors Corp shares fell as much as 21.6 percent to their lowest level since 1950 on Thursday amid financial market turmoil and the car maker's report of European sales declines through the first nine months of 2008.
GM, whose shares fell as low as $5.42 on the New York Stock Exchange, ..."


As Holden is an Australian company in its own legal sense but wholly "owned" by GM in NA, what are its survivable qualities IF GMin NA applies for US Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, or indeed, as some commentators are suggesting, GMNA shuts down permanently?



Mike McInerney
 

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Come on guys, $100 each and we could get it..... prob get Walkinshaw to throw in Elfin too...
 

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Frm the Guardian UK Newspaper on Thursday 9 October 2008.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/feedarticle/7847455

General Motors Corp shares fell as much as 21.6 percent to their lowest level since 1950 on Thursday amid financial market turmoil and the car maker's report of European sales declines through the first nine months of 2008.
GM, whose shares fell as low as $5.42 on the New York Stock Exchange, ..."


As Holden is an Australian company in its own legal sense but wholly "owned" by GM in NA, what are its survivable qualities IF GMin NA applies for US Chapter 11 Bankruptcy, or indeed, as some commentators are suggesting, GMNA shuts down permanently?
Mike McInerney
It might technically be spun off, but unless bought out by another manufacturing, it wouldn't last very long. The only Holden sourced cars are the commodore and statesman. The rest of the lineup is imported from GM's other divisions. Then again, there is the question if the new parent would continue with the commodore or just retool the plant to make their own cars.

As much as you guys love to bad mouth GM, if Holden and Ford Oz weren't owned by American firms, RWD cars in Australia would have died out a long time ago. There is no way an asian or european parent would have devoted resources to large RWD V8 vehicles. The commodore name would be on a FWD I-4 hatchback.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
So it is becoming quite grim in the US for GMNA at the very moment (8 November 2008) .

I reckon Holden will be finding it very difficult because you'd have to believe that GMNA has ensured that all available cash reserves in Holden would have been sent to the US as a 'dividend'.

Holden therefore will be hard pressed to fund a lot of the fuel initiatives it has said it wished to pursue!



Mike:(:(:(:(
 

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It is bleak all right. When you see the likes of Toyota and Honda having such down turns, and the distruction that seems to be the US environment (& Europe to a lesser degree) you know things are bad.

However, it seems a good time to buy a new car and gawd knows the manufacturers need it.
 

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******BUMP******

Is this becoming more likely????????

Who would you vote for as a new owner?

If not Aust Govt & public subscription after a relisting on the Oz stockmarket, I think maybe Suzuki.
* Partners in GM DAT.
* Their range finishes below Commodore/Statey size.
* Seem to be the only ex GM partner that still seems friendly.
 

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******BUMP******

Is this becoming more likely????????

Who would you vote for as a new owner?

If not Aust Govt & public subscription after a relisting on the Oz stockmarket, I think maybe Suzuki.
* Partners in GM DAT.
* Their range finishes below Commodore/Statey size.
* Seem to be the only ex GM partner that still seems friendly.
I still think BMW would be the best partner. And before people talk about BMW's failed Rover venture that was mainly cultural. Germans and English hate each other. And Aussies and Germans both drink cold beer. There's your difference right there. :D That and Holden's engineering culture is essentially German anyway, being adapted from Opel, and reinforced by great engineering leaders like Peter Hanenberger. In fact, if BMW bought Holden they should first bring Peter back out of retirement, he's only 67.

He must have worn that black Monaro he had shipped to Germany out by now and needs a new one based on the Coupe60. :clap:

But if Holden were bought by BMW they don't need the V8's from whatever happens to GM as BMW has it's own array of turbo six and V8 engines for the performance models. And Holden has the bread and butter V6 and an I4 plant that could make decontented I4 BMW engines.

When Zeta is too old then Holden can base Commodore on a decontented shared platform with a future 5 or 7 series.

And assuming that Daewoo came with the deal, then BMW gets what it does not have, a volume entry level range which merely needs better engineering, something that a Holden/BMW tie-up could give it in spades....

In Holden's traditonal markets the Holden name can be retained but in other markets where Holdens and Daewoos are currently sold as Chev's or Pontiacs they could relaunch under BMW's "Triumph" Brand they kept from Rover.



;)
 

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I still think BMW would be the best partner. And before people talk about BMW's failed Rover venture that was mainly cultural. Germans and English hate each other. And Aussies and Germans both drink cold beer. There's your difference right there. :D That and Holden's engineering culture is essentially German anyway, being adapted from Opel, and reinforced by great engineering leaders like Peter Hanenberger. In fact, if BMW bought Holden they should first bring Peter back out of retirement, he's only 67.

He must have worn that black Monaro he had shipped to Germany out by now and needs a new one based on the Coupe60. :clap:

But if Holden were bought by BMW they don't need the V8's from whatever happens to GM as BMW has it's own array of turbo six and V8 engines for the performance models. And Holden has the bread and butter V6 and an I4 plant that could make decontented I4 BMW engines.

When Zeta is too old then Holden can base Commodore on a decontented shared platform with a future 5 or 7 series.

And assuming that Daewoo came with the deal, then BMW gets what it does not have, a volume entry level range which merely needs better engineering, something that a Holden/BMW tie-up could give it in spades....

In Holden's traditonal markets the Holden name can be retained but in other markets where Holdens and Daewoos are currently sold as Chev's or Pontiacs they could relaunch under BMW's "Triumph" Brand they kept from Rover.



;)
Yep ok with me, as long as Holden get to keep the width in their package sizes, and as I have mentioned in many threads..... Triumph is ripe for a comeback.
 

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Yep ok with me, as long as Holden get to keep the width in their package sizes, and as I have mentioned in many threads..... Triumph is ripe for a comeback.
I guess Holden/Triumph could use the outgoing platforms like the Chrysler 300 was built on the outgoing E-Class platform. So the current 7 series platform about to be released would be the next Commodore platform.

And the current 3-Series would be fitted with the cheaper HFV6 and new bodywork to make the new Holden/Triumph Torana....:yup:

Same with the current Mini platform could be used for a number of Daewoo built small to midsized FWD Triumphs. There could be a lot of engineering synergies in a marriage like that.

BMW/Mini getting the costly engineering which their higher prices support and then the Commodore/Daewoo based Triumphs getting the benefit of that one generation later....



;)
 

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Hmm. An almost Skoda ---> VW relationship. :ponder: If we are going to be the cheap marque, the least they could do is saddle us with inexpensive manual models. ;)

Lets' just keep our fingers crossed that they don't hand-me-down last gen iDrive. :eek:
 

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.. Holden's engineering culture is essentially German anyway, being adapted from Opel, and reinforced by great engineering leaders like Peter Hanenberger. In fact, if BMW bought Holden they should first bring Peter back out of retirement, he's only 67.
Yes please imo, this guy certainly recognised who Holden's real enemy was / is

Your suggested BMW tie-in seems infinitely more sensible than to the current incompetents
 

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I still think BMW would be the best partner. And before people talk about BMW's failed Rover venture that was mainly cultural. Germans and English hate each other. And Aussies and Germans both drink cold beer. There's your difference right there. :D That and Holden's engineering culture is essentially German anyway, being adapted from Opel, and reinforced by great engineering leaders like Peter Hanenberger. In fact, if BMW bought Holden they should first bring Peter back out of retirement, he's only 67.

He must have worn that black Monaro he had shipped to Germany out by now and needs a new one based on the Coupe60. :clap:

But if Holden were bought by BMW they don't need the V8's from whatever happens to GM as BMW has it's own array of turbo six and V8 engines for the performance models. And Holden has the bread and butter V6 and an I4 plant that could make decontented I4 BMW engines.

When Zeta is too old then Holden can base Commodore on a decontented shared platform with a future 5 or 7 series.

And assuming that Daewoo came with the deal, then BMW gets what it does not have, a volume entry level range which merely needs better engineering, something that a Holden/BMW tie-up could give it in spades....

In Holden's traditonal markets the Holden name can be retained but in other markets where Holdens and Daewoos are currently sold as Chev's or Pontiacs they could relaunch under BMW's "Triumph" Brand they kept from Rover.



;)

Actually a Holden BMW Tie up would consist of them buying Holden, shutting it down, and offer you a 5-Series instead at twice the price. Holden is a threat to them, not a partner.
 
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