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Originally posted by TAFreak@Dec 17 2003, 02:49 PM
I'm not the one arguing the 20 year old Mustang, with less room, power, quality, handling and looks was a better car than the fbodies.

But it sure was cuter, even cuter than the last Camaros!

-drop the cars weight
-more agressive nose
-sun roof
-on star
-bigger, 255/275 tires
-rear valance
-fender flares
-and one wish... an LS6.
I'm guessing you're mainly talking about the Camaro. If the T/A had been anymore aggressive, if would have killed the editors of Car and Driver just by pointing in their direction (Excerpt from C&D - "Like, oh.. my.... god frank, this car is like totally angry, much more than my miyatah. Teehee, instead of driving it, lets write a fake review and go redecorate my bedroom teehee. Your toyota or my mazda? Oh my god frank, your interior is like totally amazing.")

I don't know how the fbodies could get much lighter, they had an all aluminum engine and composite plastic body panels.

On Star would have been nice, but since they were planning on killing them no matter what, that wasn't an option.

Bigger tires would have been nice.

The LS6 would have been nice too, but instead of using that for the anniversary editions, they just added a.... sticker package. WAY TO GO GM!
T/A, your reading skills are for the birds. The last part of my post was my attempt to get this topic back on track with the GTO. The list you quoted is what I wish the GTO would change for next year. But since you brought up so many points for me to pick at, lets begin shall we?

#1... umm, yeah Im gunna have to go ahead and ask you never to post your impersonation of 2 C&D editors again.

#2, Car cant get lighter eh? Well, let me point out my car. Now before we get off on a rant of how third gens blow, Id like to point out that my car is all steel, less the nose and bumper, iron block and heads, auto trans, and heavy rear end with drum brakes, and heavy glass t tops. Its still ligher then your average 4th gen. How?, I dont know. My car weighed 3462 at the dmv. My friends car tipped over 3600?? 200lbs is a big difference.

#3. Mustangs were definatly cuter... that would explain why all the girls I see drive V6 mustangs!

#4 Yeah, I do agree that they should have done more with teh anni editons. I guess they had a few rice boys from honda over and the plans were mixed up. I guess they thougth they were gunna get a good 40-60hp out of the stickers?

And Nocturn, I agree the fbody didnt sell well, but it was deffinatly a better car in every aspect. I will never understand why someone would opt for a mustang gt when a Z28 is just about the same price(other then die hard ford guys). I mean, at that point your looking for power, and why not get all you can for the money? Maybe this is where GM slipped up in sales is because there was no "weaker" engine? Maybe a 280hp 5.3? That could be lifted right out of a truck. And I love my glass hatch!!
 

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The Firebird & T/A never were ruined with extra body cladding. Their designs were clean and nice. However, the Fbodies were outsold by Mustangs for years. I believe it was in the early 80s when the Firebird, T/A, and Camaro last outsold the Mustang. Granted the Mustang survived because it was cheaper, cute (women buyers/secretary car), Ford squeezed their old platform for even longer but if they killed the Mustang what would they have left the Taurus, Focus, and not much else.
We should be glad we have the GTO it is considerably better than the alternative. No RWD coupe from GM. If we had to wait for one built in North America it would be at least three years from now.
What was better 3th or 4th Gen Fbody? That is a matter of opinion both are great cars, fun to drive, and a bargain for what you get. Is the GTO a replacement for the Fbody no it is a different car, a 2+2 and is more upmarket than the Fbody.
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Actually the Trans Am trim option itself outsold the Mustang in 79. The Camaro (all models combined) also outsold the mustang that year, and 79 was the only year (I believe) the Fbody-based cars ever outsold the Mustang.

The T/A sold like 120,000+ that year.

And I don't mean all Firebirds, that was Trans Am alone.

I'm pretty sure I've read that it was the highest ever for any model in that category, like Mustang GT, Camaro Z28/SS, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
No RWD coupe from GM
I don't know, the GTO is more like a sedan that is missing two doors.

It wasn't designed to be a coupe, Holden just decided to take the two back doors off their sedan.

It doesn't have your typical "RWD v8 Coupe" style.
 

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Now your getting picky.
Coupe once upon a time had no B pillar two doors and can seat 4 or five people
yes I am sure you can define by how many cubic feet it has in the back seat
Sedan typically four doors
The GTO has two doors yes it came from a car that has four doors but the GTO doesn't and doesn't look like it was photoshopped into being a two door.
The GTO has a more functional back seat.
As to production numbers of the fbody and the Mustang. I know the 70s were very good for the T/A and as I said I believe the Fbody has not outsold the Mustang since the early 80s.
In the 90s the combined Fbody sales were falling off drastically compared to the Mustang but most of those Mustangs were the cute secretary cars.
If GM had invested money in the Fbody it would still be around.
The Mustang never outperformed the Fbody and isn't that the best part of the entire Fbody vs. Mustang arguement?
What is typical RWD V8 style?
I know what is was in the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s but what about now?
 

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hmm, does that explain why your "coupe" TA is really a hatchback?
 
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