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and what releveance does this have to this topic?
 

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Here's a guy who bought a Trans Am and loves it. He loves anything old school. Hates IRS, 6 speeds and as he likes to say, "I ain't buyin' none o' dat foreign crap". He's still pissed that you don't have to hand crank the car to start it.
 

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rofl :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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Don't EVER let it get personal freak. I don't. You're always good for a laugh. :lol:
 

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Originally posted by silvachris1@Dec 13 2003, 07:45 PM
First off, being a person who has driven every generation of Fbody (68 RS/SS, 71 Z28. 81 Z28. 85 TransAm. 92 Firebird. 97 Camaro, 99 Camaro, 02 TransAm WS6), I am a person with strong opinions about which Fbodys are the best. After driving all of those models, I can say that the Gen 1 and the early Gen 2 Fbodys are great cars and fun to drive, but they still fall second to the late Gen 4 cars. The Gen 3 Fbodys, I feel were the worst ones ever. I never had so many complaints about a vehicle in my life. Nothing wrong engine wise, just a ton of little things, all the time. I hated that 92 Firebird. I would never own another one again in my life. My favorite Fbody so far has been my 99 Camaro (V6) and the 02 TransAm that I've been privileged enough to drive several times. The 4th Gens are great, even though, you'll probably mention reliability problems that "plague" the 4th gens. Let me guess, the power window motors, and the 4L60-E transmissions? What else?

Anyhow, would you like to go into detail please and describe what kind of outlook I have on cars? What kind of attitude do I have? Do go into detail on this stereotype about 4th Gen owners. Maybe you just mean the LS1 owners? I don't know.

You say "Thank GOD GM kept most of the design of the third gen in the 4th gen. " I say they should have changed it even more. The 3rd gen was a flawwed design to begin with, and everything should have been left behind with the 92 model. That's all I have to say.
well, Im glad you have your feeling about that. Can I ask what sucked about your 85 TA and 92 Bird that you think the third gens are such POS?

Yeah, window motors have you 4th gen guys OWNED. As for the 4L60E, I have no problem with that trans.. as a matter of fact, I have almost the same exact trans, minus the electronic control. I dont see whats so bad about third gens that everyone hates? The after market is HUGE for any engine you want to put in it, It has some of the best suspension in the world(it only need a minor front refreshining for 4th gens, couldnt be that bad) and many third/4th gen owners say there third gens are a little tigher in the turns then there heavy 4th gen. My problem with the 4th gen is for the money, I want a better car and not just some motor handed down from god. If I wanted an LS1 powerd car, Id buy a LS1/T56 set up and put it in my car. Its a lot lighter, and better looking IMO. The 4th gens are great cars, dont get me wrong. Id take a 02 Z28 over a stang GT any day of the week, but the looks and styling are really horrid. The Camaro doesnt have that mean look to it anymore. Like TA said, its has very "girly" styling. Even with that SS hood, its no where near the muscle car look of a first gen. 2nd gens have that european look as they tried to copy Italian sports cars from the 60's and 70's.... that led to a very ugly car by the late 70's early 80's.

As for the 4th gen stereotype, it goes a little something like this. "I have an LS1/LT1 and that makes my car the best in the world and no one can touch me cause my car was crafted from god and all other cars bow down before the mighty 4th gen." LT1 guys are worse, I guess cause they are the middle child. LS1 owners tend to be ****y people too. I spend enuff time on LS1.com to know this, and they know this. Yes, a lot of them are cool and I am friends with a lot of 4th gen owners, but as a group, I bet I can pick out an ahole 4th gen driver before I pick out a ahole third gen, 2nd gen, or first gen driver. Again, nothing wrong with the 4th gen car or the people that drive them Im saying in general. Just by reading your attitude twards your other fbodies, I can see that you think that the 4th gen is the best gen ever made. Hell, there is even a site called bestgen.com!! and its abotu 4th gens!! Im sure as time goes on, the people that buy 4th gens will be just like the people that buy third gens. Its a fast car, for very cheap with a great motor. sorry for such a long post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
"I have an LS1/LT1 and that makes my car the best in the world and no one can touch me cause my car was crafted from god and all other cars bow down before the mighty 4th gen."
Preach it my brutha! Preach it!

Mustang :plasma:
Corvette :plasma:
GTO :plasma:
Viper :plasma:
Ferrari :plasma:
Import Fairies :plasma:
Space Shuttle Columbia :plasma:

no one can touch me cause my car was crafted from god
I really liked this part the best, in fact I am going to put it in my signature.

Personally, I'd like to have a nice fbody (well, Firebird for me) from every generation. But between the two I have now and my 2000 GMC pickup, I'm running out of space to park them.
 

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You do realize he was commenting on how all of you seem to be full of yourselves right, and not commenting on fourthgens.
 

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Just leave him alone in his own little ignorant world. He now believes God made his car. Too bad he doesn't realize there are better cars and if the 4th Gen had been properly updated and popular we would have a 5th Gen today.
The 4th Gen was a good car, but if it was so great why did it die?
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
If the 4th gen was so bad, why did it stay in production for about 10 years in full production, even though it's obviously a niche vehicle?

And on top of that, with out significant advertising support. AND even in the last year, they were profitable to GM. If you're an idiot, which you are, you'll ignore the fact that politics had more to do with the F-body's death than sales.
 

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Ok Oliver Stone, politics, if GM can't make money on a ten year old platform shareholders would have something to be upset about. The 4th Gen was a great car but it was ignored by GM and to an extent the public demand shifting from cars to trucks and SUVs. GM could have kept the Firebird/Camaro but they didn't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Again, GM couldn't have.. at least not easily.

You can't basically "screw over" a major auto union like the CAW without seeing major repercussions elsewhere.

The fbodies, unfortunately, took one for the team.
 

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I'll agree that the F-Body's took one for the team. The last commercial I remember for an F-Body was the one where the kid in the bedroom is naming off cars by their exhaust note. I can't remember the last ad I saw.
 

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That was the LT1 Camaro commercial, there was an firebird one when the model was redesigned in 98. Also a SS camaro for the GM card when it came out.

the FBody was killed because it was selling for crap end of story, that is the number one reason. Combined it was still being outsold by the mustang.

Why did it stay for a decade? why did the thirdgeneration, or second for 11 years?

Im not going to list all the reasons why it was being outsold or why it was an inferrior car in its many aspects since it has been done before in one of these threads on here....try looking the new generation fbody thread under editors commintaries...think there is one in there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
For the love of Jebus, put the crack pipe down and step away from the computer!

Combined it was still being outsold by the mustang.
It's funny, you seem to think the Camaro and Firebird were two completely different cars. I don't think it's fair to compare them to the Mustang's sales apart. If the Mustang had a twin, you'd see each twin sell half as many cars as the Mustang does now.

It's simple logic, however you have proven you do not have a grasp of this (or reality).

why it was an inferrior car in its many aspects
Funny comment from someone who obviously could not have a job that would allow one to afford a full trim, 4th generation fbody.
 

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Originally posted by Nocturn_Bird@Dec 16 2003, 09:09 PM
You do realize he was commenting on how all of you seem to be full of yourselves right, and not commenting on fourthgens.
Was I wrong?
My point gets proven more and more every day. Anyone with a third gen knows this as almost gospel.


TA, if the mustang had 2 versions... like if merc still stuck close and didnt go luxo touring car(and then go ghey chick car) with the cougar, thoes 2 would probably still outsold the combined sales of the 2 fbodies.

I dont think it was an inferior car, and for the money you couldnt really get a better performance car from any of the big 3 or anyone!! 28k for a Z28 with 305(more like at the wheels)hp and a 6spd with cloth interior, t tops, and red! No mustang GT could come near it, and Cobra's only go close enuff to see the door handles. Only untill 03 did ford finaly put up a fbody killer. That hasnt been done since 86. Wow, this thread got officialy hi-jacked and totaly ran off course.

Look, I like 4th gens, but compared to the GTO they arent much. Couple of things I personaly would change
-drop the cars weight
-more agressive nose
-sun roof
-on star
-bigger, 255/275 tires
-rear valance
-fender flares
-and one wish... an LS6. :D
other then that, the car is a sweet deal. If I had the money, Id get one in a heart beat. If the car could weigh in at 3500lbs and be styled like that picture of that tan one floating around, I think the car would sell and everyone would praise GM for there superior international muslce.
 

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lol keep assuming all you want freak, sooner or later youl finally make yourself feel better. You know absolutely nothing about me, yet since I dont like the 4th generations I must not be able to aford one. :rolleyes: Keep guessing sissy boy.

Okay so compare a single fbody to the mustang, it just makes the fbody come off worse. Why dont you try and save that dead horse your beating freak.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I'm not the one arguing the 20 year old Mustang, with less room, power, quality, handling and looks was a better car than the fbodies.

But it sure was cuter, even cuter than the last Camaros!

-drop the cars weight
-more agressive nose
-sun roof
-on star
-bigger, 255/275 tires
-rear valance
-fender flares
-and one wish... an LS6.
I'm guessing you're mainly talking about the Camaro. If the T/A had been anymore aggressive, if would have killed the editors of Car and Driver just by pointing in their direction (Excerpt from C&D - "Like, oh.. my.... god frank, this car is like totally angry, much more than my miyatah. Teehee, instead of driving it, lets write a fake review and go redecorate my bedroom teehee. Your toyota or my mazda? Oh my god frank, your interior is like totally amazing.")

I don't know how the fbodies could get much lighter, they had an all aluminum engine and composite plastic body panels.

On Star would have been nice, but since they were planning on killing them no matter what, that wasn't an option.

Bigger tires would have been nice.

The LS6 would have been nice too, but instead of using that for the anniversary editions, they just added a.... sticker package. WAY TO GO GM!
 

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Point out where I said the mustang was a better car, I didn't. Just said that it outsold the fbody, which is a fact.

as for weight, take off most of the TAs gawdy body cladding, maybe a smaller non 100 LBSs of glass rear hatch, smaller doors, etc. Most of it is just general issues with the cars body shape.

would you rather have had nothing? Be happy they gave you anything.
 
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