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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Another go in M's sacred cow, this time the self-shifter.
Car & Driver
October 2014
By: K.C. Kolwell


Mick famously preaches that you can’t always get what you want, which couldn’t be truer of the new BMW M4—and in more ways than one. We’d hoped to test a model without the $8150 carbon-ceramic brakes and $1000 adaptive dampers because we wanted to see how a more affordable M4 ($70,000 or so) would fare. Unfortunately, that will have to wait: Every single M3/M4 (which isn’t an algebraic way of expressing three-quarters) currently in the BMW press fleet is fitted with the pricey grabbers.

All isn’t lost. We were able to run our gamut of tests on the twin-turbo M4 at our home proving grounds, where this example proved a little quicker, a little grabbier, and a little heavier than the M4 we recently put up against a Porsche 911 down South. The launch-control program bundled with the $2900 dual-clutch automatic transmission is difficult to engage, and if the car isn’t happy with engine or transmission temperatures, it won’t go into hole-shot mode at all. More annoying was that we never could be sure whether the problem was with temperatures or some lapse in following the fussy procedure. At least the transmission responds to commands without delay.

Full article available at link.
 

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0-60 in 3.7, 1.00 G on the skidpad, and 17/24 City/Highway MPG. Wow.

The ball's in your court, Cadillac.
1 G in the skid pad, that is Camaro 1LE territory, Chevrolet's pull north of 1.1 now. The Mojo is not with Germans anymore. GM is the king of performance. No doubt.
The 2016 Camaro SS will probably be faster right out of the factory when it comes out. Yes, for $30 G or so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The 2016 Camaro SS will probably be faster right out of the factory when it comes out. Yes, for $30 G or so.
This thing is faster than the Corvette Stingray Z51 from 0-60, 0-100, 0-130, and the quarter mile. The Camaro won't come anywhere close.

This thing is an absolute monster.
 

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This thing is faster than the Corvette Stingray Z51 from 0-60, 0-100, 0-130, and the quarter mile. The Camaro won't come anywhere close.

This thing is an absolute monster.
The next time someone complains the ATS-V is coming with a turbo six rather than a V8, remind them of this little fact. The V8 might make nice noises, but it'll be smoked.

Then there's this one:
For the record, this car was 34 pounds heavier, at 3615.
For people who think a larger mostly steel V8 SS Camaro with similar power and wheel/brake sizes is somehow going to weigh less than a mostly-aluminium BMW.
 

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This thing is faster than the Corvette Stingray Z51 from 0-60, 0-100, 0-130, and the quarter mile. The Camaro won't come anywhere close.

This thing is an absolute monster.
False, with the new 8 speed self shifting transmission the Z51 matches the 0-60 and beats it through the 1/4mile (460BHP probably gives it an edge as speeds increase).

Since a car like the BMW M4 is not about straight line speed, the Camaro 1LE has been test as high as 1.03Gs on the skid pad meaning that the 1LE can generate greater cornering speeds and braking performance. The 1LE would need a fast shifting transmission and to go on a bit of a diet in order to match this M4s straight line speed.

The point that Mchicha is trying to make is that we know that GM has no problem producing performance vehicles that are faster then their competitors. No doubt though that like other BMW turbocharged engines they assume worse conditions for engine operations thus in the real world the BMW M4 is under rated. Though it is still an impressive performance, it will be fun to see what the ATS V can do as I am assuming it will use the 8 speed transmission as well as a manual (it needs the fast shifter to put up sweet numbers for the mags).
 

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The next time someone complains the ATS-V is coming with a turbo six rather than a V8, remind them of this little fact. The V8 might make nice noises, but it'll be smoked.

Then there's this one:


For people who think a larger mostly steel V8 SS Camaro with similar power and wheel/brake sizes is somehow going to weigh less than a mostly-aluminium BMW.
All this.

Regarding weight, I would guess a 2016 Camaro SS is MAX 100lbs lighter than a comparable Mustang... naked and after it had its post-coffee morning poop.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
False, with the new 8 speed self shifting transmission the Z51 matches the 0-60 and beats it through the 1/4mile (460BHP probably gives it an edge as speeds increase).

Since a car like the BMW M4 is not about straight line speed, the Camaro 1LE has been test as high as 1.03Gs on the skid pad meaning that the 1LE can generate greater cornering speeds and braking performance. The 1LE would need a fast shifting transmission and to go on a bit of a diet in order to match this M4s straight line speed.

The point that Mchicha is trying to make is that we know that GM has no problem producing performance vehicles that are faster then their competitors. No doubt though that like other BMW turbocharged engines they assume worse conditions for engine operations thus in the real world the BMW M4 is under rated. Though it is still an impressive performance, it will be fun to see what the ATS V can do as I am assuming it will use the 8 speed transmission as well as a manual (it needs the fast shifter to put up sweet numbers for the mags).
I used the C&D test for the 2014 Z51 with the 6 speed:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review

The Z51 with the 8 speed is estimated to turn in almost identical results in a straight line and post an identical 1/4 mile. C&D hasn't tested a 8 speed Z51 yet:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-chevrolet-corvette-eight-speed-automatic-first-drive-review

Regarding the 1LE, this thing would blow the 1LE away. No contest.
 

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All this.

Regarding weight, I would guess a 2016 Camaro SS is MAX 100lbs lighter than a comparable Mustang... naked and after it had its post-coffee morning poop.
The new Mustang is pretty heavy. The GT weighs 3,700+. A Premium V6 ATS Coupe comes in at just over 3,500 lbs.

Camaro should easily be 100+ lbs lighter.
 

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This thing is faster than the Corvette Stingray Z51 from 0-60, 0-100, 0-130, and the quarter mile. The Camaro won't come anywhere close.

This thing is an absolute monster.
I was speaking track times, America has already overdone the dragstrip. There is a COPO camaro

https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/copo-camaro.html


That can take down any production dragstar... It used to be, well, yeah, 'its faster but it cannot turn'.. Well, that day is behind us now.
 

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I used the C&D test for the 2014 Z51 with the 6 speed:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-z51-road-test-review

The Z51 with the 8 speed is estimated to turn in almost identical results in a straight line and post an identical 1/4 mile. C&D hasn't tested a 8 speed Z51 yet:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-chevrolet-corvette-eight-speed-automatic-first-drive-review

Regarding the 1LE, this thing would blow the 1LE away. No contest.
With the added power and fast shifting transmission, along with less weight I don't think that that would be a shock....
 

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This thing is faster than the Corvette Stingray Z51 from 0-60, 0-100, 0-130, and the quarter mile. The Camaro won't come anywhere close.

This thing is an absolute monster.
Not faster than a Z51 with the 8 speed.

It would be really cool to see a track battle of this with a 1LE. It has no chance against a ZL1 and let alone a Z28.

The new Mustang GT350 will also put it to sleep, no contest. Even the new C63 will wipe the floor with the new M4.
 

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Not faster than a Z51 with the 8 speed.

It would be really cool to see a track battle of this with a 1LE. It has no chance against a ZL1 and let alone a Z28.

The new Mustang GT350 will also put it to sleep, no contest. Even the new C63 will wipe the floor with the new M4.
Very true about the performance numbers.................But when I drive up to the Valet in front of the restaurant, I'd rather be in the BMW.
 

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Very true about the performance numbers.................But when I drive up to the Valet in front of the restaurant, I'd rather be in the BMW.
LOL You know BMW has lost its way when the only good thing people can say is that they rather drive up to the Valet in one.

 

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It will be the battle of the automatics. Manual to manual GM all the way.
 
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