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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
PARIS (Bloomberg) -- France will gradually align taxes on diesel and gasoline and offer incentives to encourage consumers to swap diesel cars for electric models.

Starting in April, the government will pay a bonus of as much as 10,000 euros ($11,422) to consumers who buy an electric car to replace an old diesel vehicle, Energy Minister Segolene Royal said.

"We have to eliminate old diesel cars that are more than 13 years old and have no filters," Royal said. Measures against these types of polluting cars will make it "harder and harder" to use them, she said.

Renault welcomed the EV incentives. "It could help to convince buyers to try an electric car," a spokesman told Automotive News Europe.

A 10,000-euro rebate would reduce the price of Renault's Zoe subcompact EV to 12,400 euros from 22,400 euros. The price of the Nissan Leaf would fall to 14,390 euros from 18,090 euros.

The two models are France's best-selling passenger car EVs. French sales of the Zoe were 5,970 last year, according to analysts Inovev. Leaf sales were 1,604.

Renault said the final terms of the rebate program have yet to be finalized.

"We expect EV sales in France to increase substantially as a result of the measures," Evercore ISI Global Automotive said following the decision.

Royal's comments on diesel cars follow an announcement by the government in December that it will raise the so-called TICPE excise tax on diesel by 2 euro cents per liter, bringing in 807 million euros to state coffers in 2015.

French taxes are lower on diesel than on gasoline, which has encouraged consumers to buy cars that run on the cheaper fuel. Environmental groups have urged the government to align the levies while French carmakers have said measures should encourage motorists to replace old vehicles with newer models.

Aligning the prices would help reduce smog, Royal said on Wednesday. "Air pollution is a major public health issue," she said. "Sixty percent of the French population breathes air that isn't healthy."

Paris and other big French cities regularly issue warnings about air pollution caused in part by particulates from diesel fumes. Alerts in recent years have reignited debate over the taxes. Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo last month announced measures aimed at phasing out diesel vehicles in the city by about 2020.

Domestic carmakers PSA/Peugeot-Citroen and Renault are among European automakers that market new diesel-powered vehicles as environmentally friendly because they can get more miles to the gallon than gasoline-fueled vehicles and are less polluting than older models.

"We have to be realistic because there are industries that make diesel cars, there are jobs involved" Royal said.

Sixty-four percent of new cars sold last year in France to consumers ran on diesel compared with a high reached two years earlier of 73 percent, according to the country's car manufacturers' association CCFA. In countries such as Germany and the UK with different tax regimes, the proportion of diesel cars was 47 percent and 50 percent respectively in 2013.

Overall, about 80 percent of French motorists drive diesel-powered cars.
LINK
http://europe.autonews.com/article/...to-10000-euros-to-encourage-diesel-drivers-to


Only problem is nobody will buy the French made Renault EV as cheap as they will become price, you still have to contract lease the battery's from Renault which is very expensive with contracts limit you low fixed mileage if you exceed that you get put into a higher priced package band, Renaults expensive battery leasing contract costs are higher than filling up with diesel for the month.

It artificially closes the gap on diesels with French taxpayer paid incentives, with incentives that can't stay in place forever with a French economy that's in sink mode at the moment, can't see it making a great deal off difference until peak oil curve starts to dip kick in and do it naturally.
 

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Be interesting to see how the European car market changes over the next 20 years as governments de-emphasize diesel policies.

And in typical GM fashion, after decades of "studying" Europe they are finally getting around to developing world class diesels for Cadillac just as the winds are changing. Probably see a headline from Cadillac tomorrow "in 5 years Cadillac will sell only diesel vehicles in Europe".
 

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There's a lot of political posturing going on in Europe that makes it difficult to predict what really might happen - what won't happen is that consumers/voters won't be forced to incur great expense scrapping otherwise usable vehicles and buying new ones, they won't stand for it.

The two things I can see happening is that:-
- a) taxation will be equalised on diesel and petrol/gasoline in most EU countries (it's been equalised for a long time in the UK but very low for diesel in France, other countries I don't know about)
- b) congested cities will ban older vehicles which had lower emissions standards when new AND charge extortionately for those with newer vehicles who choose to drive into the cities.

Since city-dwellers have increasingly given up vehicle ownership due to lack of parking and non-city dwellers need little excuse not to go there, I think that any market change could be much smaller than predicted.
 

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There was another thread on this topic a couple of months ago.

Headline in 2025:

"France Discourges Electric Cars, Discovers Huge Toxic Footprint From Battery Production! Considering Clean Diesel."
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
There was another thread on this topic a couple of months ago.

Headline in 2025:

"France Discourges Electric Cars, Discovers Huge Toxic Footprint From Battery Production! Considering Clean Diesel."
LOL China will be wasting their time going electric with 2 new coal fire stations opening up every week.

DAILY MAIL..

Your all-electric car may not be so green: Researchers say electricity generated by coal plants can cause MORE pollution than simply using gasoline

Electric cars produce 3.6 times more soot and smog deaths than those running on traditional gasoline if a coal plant is used to produce it
Driving vehicles that use electricity from renewable energy could reduce the resulting deaths due to air pollution by 70%, researchers found
Study examined environmental costs for cars' entire life cycle, including where power comes from and environmental effects of building batteries


'Unfortunately, when a wire is connected to an electric vehicle at one end and a coal-fired power plant at the other end, the environmental consequences are worse than driving a normal gasoline-powered car,' said Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution for Science, who wasn't part of the study but praised it.

Driving vehicles that use electricity from renewable energy instead of gasoline could reduce the resulting deaths due to air pollution by 70 percent, it concluded.

Ethanol isn't so green, either, the researchers claimed.

'It's kind of hard to beat gasoline' for public and environmental health, said study co-author Julian Marshall, an engineering professor at the University of Minnesota.

'A lot of the technologies that we think of as being clean ... are not better than gasoline.'

The key is where the source of the electricity all-electric cars.

If it comes from coal, the electric cars produce 3.6 times more soot and smog deaths than gas, because of the pollution made in generating the electricity, according to the study that is published Monday by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

The states with the highest percentage of electricity coming from coal, according to the Department of Energy, are West Virginia, Wyoming, Ohio, North Dakota, and Illinois.

Still, there's something to be said for the idea of helping foster a cleaner technology that will be better once it is connected to a cleaner grid, said study co-author Jason Hill, another University of Minnesota engineering professor.

The study finds all-electric vehicles cause 86 percent more deaths from air pollution than do cars powered by regular gasoline.

Coal produces 39 percent of the country's electricity, according to the Department of Energy.


But if the power supply comes from natural gas, the all-electric car produces half as many air pollution health problems as gas-powered cars do.

And if the power comes from wind, water or wave energy, it produces about one-quarter of the air pollution deaths.

Hybrids and diesel engines are cleaner than gas, causing fewer air pollution deaths and spewing less heat-trapping gas.

But ethanol isn't, with 80 percent more air pollution mortality, according to the study.

'If we're using ethanol for environmental benefits, for air quality and climate change, we're going down the wrong path,' Hill said.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...al-plants-make-air-DIRTIER.html#ixzz3RCRYrFrF
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