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Freep: Tundra isn't a knockout

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#1 ·
MARK PHELAN: Toyota rolls out beefier mega-truck

But Tundra isn't a knockout

February 10, 2006

CHICAGO --To the amazement of many, Toyota failed to reinvent the pickup truck Thursday. The 2007 Tundra -- the biggest and most powerful pickup Toyota has ever built -- has all the features and capabilities to be a formidable new competitor for warhorses like the Ford F-150, Chevrolet Silverado and Dodge Ram when it goes on sale early next year.

The company's U.S. sales boss dubbed Tundra's debut at the Chicago Auto Show as "the most important product announcement we've ever had." But it revealed no revolutionary new features that would redefine what consumers expect in a big pickup.

"It's not the breakthrough I expected," said George Peterson, president of AutoPacific, an industry consulting company based in Tustin, Calif. "It'll be a good seller for Toyota, but it doesn't change the landscape."

Instead of a breathtaking new idea -- like the under-bed trunk the Honda Ridgeline wowed buyers with last year -- the Tundra will hit the road with the same virtues that have made Toyota the most formidable automaker in the world -- "the time-tested quality and durability of Toyota," company U.S. sales chief Jim Press said.

That will certainly win it buyers, said Rebecca Lindland, an auto industry expert for Global Insight, a Lexington, Mass., consulting company. But it's likely not enough to lure owners away from Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge, which dominate full-size pickup sales.

Toyota says it expects the Tundra to keep some of its current owners from moving to those brands, however.

It did not reveal specific price, power or payload figures for the Tundra, but top models of the new truck will feature a 5.7-liter V8, six-speed automatic transmission. The Tundra's key dimensions are very similar to corresponding models from Chevrolet, Ford and Dodge.

Toyota expects to sell about 200,000 of the new Tundras during the pickup's first full year on the market and around 300,000 annually once production gets up to speed at the Princeton, Ind., and San Antonio plants that will build it.

That compares with about 100,000 sales a year of the old, smaller Tundra and a record of just over 126,000 in 2005.

"The incremental sales will come from people who want a pickup for the weekend," Lindland said. "I don't think the hard-core pickup buyer is going to abandon Ford, Chevy and Dodge."

However, the traditional Detroit carmakers have a much bigger problem with young buyers who grew up with Toyotas and have no allegiance to the F-150, Silverado or Ram.

"That sound you hear is Toyota eating Detroit's lunch with Generation Y," she said.

Toyota started developing the new Tundra seven years ago with the painstaking approach that has made many of its vehicles benchmarks for other automakers.

Toyota has tried to crack the full-size pickup market for more than a decade with little success, and Nissan didn't even dent the Big Three's sales when it introduced its Titan pickup.

The size, power and specifications for the new Tundra were set in 2002, and executives signed off on the aggressive and unique design in January 2005.

Continued... http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006602100423
 
#2 ·
Toyota has to go a long way to beat GM and Ford. Their trucks are very good. 200,000 additional sales from the big 3 and Ford and GM still sell almost 1 million pickups each. That's only 70,00 from each.
 
#3 ·
Well, not exactly singing the praises of Toyota. I figure this will mainly be sold to those that are mainly loyal to Toyota...has no appeal to me.
 
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#4 ·
megan said:
Toyota has to go a long way to beat GM and Ford. Their trucks are very good. 200,000 additional sales from the big 3 and Ford and GM still sell almost 1 million pickups each. That's only 70,00 from each.
But the big three can't afford to loose these sales. Especially from their bread and butter product.
 
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#5 ·
However, the traditional Detroit carmakers have a much bigger problem with young buyers who grew up with Toyotas and have no allegiance to the F-150, Silverado or Ram.

"That sound you hear is Toyota eating Detroit's lunch with Generation Y," she said.
This is what worries me - short term I don't think the Big 3 have a huge problem, but long term when the die hard folks who grew up with 'em go away they will. It won't happen overnight but slowly but surely Toyota will gain a increasingly bigger slice of the pie. The Big 3 will still be the leaders but not by the margin they are now.
 
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#6 ·
Are full-sized pickup buyers really looking for something radical? Aren't full-sized pickup buyers, on the whole, just as conservative as family sedan buyers? Why would Toyota come out with some radical, earth-shaking product in a market where status quo is the norm? I think it looks like Toyota's doing just fine in this segment.
 
#7 ·
The Japanese trucks don't have torque, the Big three all do. The Tundra/Titan also don't offer as many variations like bed length, manual/automatic, 4 door, extended, and engine choices. 3 Engines in the Tundra is pretty good, but the Titan has 1. Also people in "America's Heartland" love American products. And buying a Japanese pickup is sort of like buying a Hyundia luxury car. The Big Three trucks are better and will still outsell everything.
 
#8 ·
Hudson said:
Are full-sized pickup buyers really looking for something radical? Aren't full-sized pickup buyers, on the whole, just as conservative as family sedan buyers? Why would Toyota come out with some radical, earth-shaking product in a market where status quo is the norm? I think it looks like Toyota's doing just fine in this segment.
I don't think most pickup buyers want anything too edgy looking (Exhibit A: Nissan Titan). Toyota had it right with the styling of the current Tundra (before the newer grille), they just needed to beef up the size and the powertrain to play with the big boys. That's my take anyway, I think they should have played it more conservatively. Looks like now they're mainly competing with Nissan.
 
#9 ·
Hudson said:
Are full-sized pickup buyers really looking for something radical? Aren't full-sized pickup buyers, on the whole, just as conservative as family sedan buyers? Why would Toyota come out with some radical, earth-shaking product in a market where status quo is the norm? I think it looks like Toyota's doing just fine in this segment.
Especially after seeing Honda swinging and missing (foul tipping at best) with the "innovative" Ridgeline.
 
#10 ·
Over on AH-HA's blog, he had this to say while discussing the new Tundra:

Having already seen the new Silverado and Sierra, I can say that they are also a great leap forward and are an even greater threat to Ford. Both models feature the same level of refinement seen in this new Tundra and offer an even wider array of configurations than today’s models.
Let's hope he's right.
 
#11 ·
i kind of thought Toyota would have something more innovative too, and instead it's just another truck. the more i look at it, the more its looks grow on me, and i may end up liking the styling before it's all said and done, but GM and Ford still offer buyers more configurations, and their trucks have huge followings. i'd almost go so far as to say that even if there are some GM fans that are disappointed with the GMT-900 trucks, they'd sooner go to Ford than to Toyota. i don't think GM and Ford are out of the woods, because the Toyota is now more competitive than it's ever been, but it's not going to threaten for the top spot in sales. i don't see it coming close to even Dodge's sales numbers. it definitely doesn't redefine trucks as we know them, but Toyota's full size truck is finally a true full size.
 
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#12 ·
GM and Ford need to battle Toyota, not each other, even in the truck market. Simplistic as it may be, "American" cars and trucks... ALL American cars and trucks need to be viewed as better than those from Japan.

It may seem odd, but as GM's products improve it helps Ford, and visa versa.
 
#13 ·
I am a full-size pickup driver, and my wife is a SUV driver. I kind of like the ridgeline trunk not truck. I wouldn't want the spare tire back there if I was haul stuff (Which I don't haul stuff daily). If I was toyota, I would not have built something that looked like a dodge.

I think Toyota will put a dent in the four door market. I don't think that people who haul stuff are going to go out a buy a toyota.

My problem with the toyota is that it hasn't been big enough. They have always been smaller than 1/2 ton trucks, or felt smaller on the inside. If they have actually built a real 1/2 ton the big three maybe in trouble.
 
#16 ·
Meh. looks un-inspiring, boring and marshmallow-ey. Just like a Toyota. But seriously, I like the current Tundra's styling far better than this. The Toyota faithful will snatch it up, though.
 
#17 ·
Ok, so I am onboard with the idea that Toyota's view in the marketplace is reliability based, but this is a "totally new truck" so how can they claim is will be and is reliable and durable. Didn't we just see the highest year of Toyota recalls in 2005? The truck is disproportionate and just doesn't really break any kind of mold. I love GM, but really, the new 900's (SUV's so far)are killing everything they are up against right now (see Navigator threads) in terms of clean lines and appealing interiors. I can't wait to see the new Silverado/Sierra line before Fall.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Lest anyone write off Gen Y as a whole, I am twenty-something Honda driver who dreams of owning a Silverado someday. Simply put, we are out there.

Why do I drive a Honda? Life circumstances led me there. No great love of the land of the Rising Sun. Why do I want a Silverado? Because there is nothing more American, tough, or as visually appealing.

On a side note, I am deep down a GM fan because that's all my father ever drove. He owned a 1987 Lesabre (260k), '86 Lesabre (250k), '89 Lesabre (220k), '92 Caprice (200k), etc with very little problems. With that said, the comment above about diehards going away is very astute. Toyota's numbers will go up as my father's generation fades. The onus is on GM to capture the next generation and keep the ball in their court.
 
#20 ·
Look where Toyota is today in the car and suv market today vs. where they started and how they got to where they are. They reached their current position incrementally by building vehicles that won share by being reliable and economical to operate; not by styling breakthroughs. More recently Toyota and Honda have done more creative things with their minivans, and Honda has led in safety features, but it's still reliability that sells their products as far as I can see. And of course resale value which is a by-product of the years of reliability. So, assuming this truck is at least as reliable as the big 3 offerings, it should do well, and every sale is a direct loss by the big 3 and their dealers. Toyota is smart not to be too smart. They need to avoid the Titan experience and the damage to their reputation that would result. If this truck lives up to Toyota's reputation, the bigger models will further sap the revenue stream of the big 3; assuming they are still around. All Toyota needs to do now is build a reliable product and sell them in sufficient quantities at good profit to keep their plants running profitably and extend the Toyota reputation to include this high-profit section of the market. They'll get the result they deserve.
 
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#21 ·
OMG. It really is a Camry with a pickup bed on it.

Even Chevrolet has nothing to worry about from the Tundra.

Toyota strikes out a third time in the full-sized pickup market.

Oh, well, since they are Toyota they get a fourth strike to try to be competitive.
 
#22 ·
Arizona Slim said:
Over on AH-HA's blog, he had this to say while discussing the new Tundra:


Let's hope he's right.
Stupid quote. Comparing the next version of the Chevrolet truck with the current Ford one is meaningless. Ford already has two pickup trucks ready to launch to compete with Chevrolet - a newer version of the F-150 and a totally new F-250. Let's do the comparison then before throwing a party.
 
#23 ·
DropShadow said:
Lest anyone write off Gen Y as a whole, I am twenty-something Honda driver who dreams of owning a Silverado someday. Simply put, we are out there.

Why do I drive a Honda? Life circumstances led me there. No great love of the land of the Rising Sun. Why do I want a Silverado? Because there is nothing more American, tough, or as visually appealing.

On a side note, I am deep down a GM fan because that's all my father ever drove. He owned a 1987 Lesabre (260k), '86 Lesabre (250k), '89 Lesabre (220k), '92 Caprice (200k), etc with very little problems. With that said, the comment above about diehards going away is very astute. Toyota's numbers will go up as my father's generation fades. The onus is on GM to capture the next generation and keep the ball in their court.
I'm 35 and I have driven only Honda products as my regular cars and Subaru wagons as my beater cars for 15 years and have incredible luck with them. Of course - they make the cars I like to drive - tight sophisticated suspensions, slick shifting 5-speeds, high-revving engines. I'm still waiting for GM to build the car I want to drive for less than $32,000. If I could afford a CTS, I'd buy it. Otherwise, the Malibu with an automatic or the G6 with its overweight front end isn't going to cut it. I'm excited about the Aura, however - if they put a stick in it.
 
#24 ·
i'm 19 and will NEVER EVER IN MY LIFE COME HELL OR HIGH WATER EVER PURCHASE A TOYOTA, MUCH LESS A TOYOTA TRUCK. Granted, I am in a VERY small minority of gen y b/c all the superliberal a$$holes at my school in my dorm dream of owning a honda civic...but not me. A few of us still understand the importance of purchasing american...

b/c IMHO, buying a foreign car in todays market is SOCIALLY IRRESPONSIBLE. I urge all of you to use that term also. B/C its true. Unless its a vehicle like the VW Bug (which gm has no competitor for) or if you want a hybrid car and GM doesn't offer one as of now, THEN THERE IS NO REASON TO NOT BUY AMERICAN. The quality IS the same (neglible differences) the powertrains are comparable, the reliability is THE SAME (look at any jd power survey if you dont believe me) and the productivity by "lazy" lol UAW workers is the best in NA and the world. GM's oshwa plant and 2 others i forget where there located, are the top 3 most efficient plants in N. American (NA) and top 3 of the top 7 or 8 in the WORLD!!!

Like I said...SOCIALLY IRRESPONSIBLE...check Duspinnist ignore list for the SOCIALLY IRRESPONSIBLE members of our beloved forum, it just isn't right. Let them know its SOCIALLY IRRESPONSIBLE!

That said, GM really has to start appealing to my generation the way scion appeals to us. Personally, instead of taking saturn upmarket, I would made it the scion competitor and keep chevy as toyota competitior, and keep caddy as the lexus competitor and thats it. I know gm cant get rid of all other brands but in a perfect ideal world where you cant have that many brands, this would be ideal. Then there would be no hierarchial bull **** for who gets what engines, trannies, "quality materials" for the interiors...etc.

They would all be the best the company has to offer. Thats what toyota does and if GM wants GEN Y thats the kind of thing we are all (GEN Y) looking for. Make us the best dam car at the cheapest price with the most options and the best quality. I know, easy to say, hard to do...BUT NECESSARY. Think of how many buyers are already pissed off b/c their cavalier / sunfire was ****. And how many cobalt buyers feel neutered when they look at the mazda3 (especially its interior), new civic (i hate it but whether you like it or not, 5 speed tranny, 30+ REAL mpg), jetta (Just puts an LTZ cobalt to shame. Its liek comparing todays Audi A6 to my old 91 Park ave...just gets blown outa the water) etc. Get a clue gm, and the new Caliber SRT4 scares me w/ 300 bhp and awd option. What cant the SS-SC compete w/ that without the stage 1,2,3 upgrades...erg. If dodge can do it chevy ss should be able to also.

My 2 cents... :)
 
#25 ·
Whirling_Dervish said:
I was not expecting anything from the Tundra. Its what I thought it would be, just another truck.

This article doesn't support the "bias" argument, now does it?
Well, actually it does.

Think about it. The whole point of the article is that they expected toyota to come out with this revolutionary, earth shaking, best in the world, game changer. Im not sure what product toyota has ever made that fits that, but thats what the media was expecting.

Where does that expectation come from?

Bias. They think toyota is gods gift to automaking. And when something comes out that everyone just looks around and says "thats it?", they dont know quite what to do.

Keep in mind they also thought the locking trunk in the ridgeline is revolutionary, so go figure.
 
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#26 ·
Looking at the link, I noticed one little error that doesn't even deal w/ the tundra. The sales numbers...They say F-150 at ~900k units...it's not just F-150s, it's the F-Series including 250s 350s, just like silverado covers their 1500-3500s.

Also noticed that they mentioned the HD tundra coming out in a few years, and on another thread they were talking about the Toyota diesel having ~700ft-lbs tq. 3 years from now, that won't be earth shattering, especially since the D-max already has 650 as of 2006 my, and ford supposively working on a twin turbo powerstroke.



I do say that the new silverado and sierra better have the 6 spd auto if the Tahoe/Yukon 5.3 power numbers are the same in the trucks.
 
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