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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In another thread I suggested that Cadillac should not develop diesel engines for Europe, rather it should develop a marketing campaign to highlight the advantages (health, environmental, NVH) of petrol over diesel engines and tout its petrol/ hybrid only drive-train offerings. Now it seems France is in the early stage of curtailing diesel engines. Can a ban be far behind?

"Diesel-engined vehicles could be gradually phased out in France as the country seeks to improve its average CO2 emissions and reduce pollution in its cities.

French Prime Minister Manuel Valls announced a new car identification system which will be used from next year to keep track of the dirtiest vehicles in the country. Local authorities could then use the data to limit access for diesel-powered cars and vans.

Announcing the new system, Valls called the French people's favour of diesel-powered cars "a mistake", saying: "We will progressively undo that, intelligently and pragmatically." It is thought that around 80 per-cent of French motorists drive diesel-powered vehicles.

As well as bringing in new measures to lower the tax advantage on diesel cars, the government will also be increasing the so-called TICPE excise tax on diesel by two per cent, bringing in an extra €807 million.

France's measures are yet another sign that the dominance of diesel in Europe could be about to end. Experts have already warned that a combination of stringent EU emissions legislation, rises in diesel fuel prices and increasingly efficient petrol engines could lead to a decline in diesel-engined vehicles."

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/france-plans-diesel-engine-cull-fight-over-emissions
 

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CO2 is the weakest of all possible reasons to slap an "Ebola-Infected" stamp on a whole class of IC engines.

What's the story regarding gasser GDI particulate levels? To me that is as important, or more so, than a War On Diesels.

There is no pain-free power plant if you wish to enjoy modern civilization. Coal is getting cleaner, ditto oil, NG production is increasing in the USA at least, and oh BTW the first French nuke disaster like Chernoble or Fukishima might twist their government's thinking regarding "clean electric."

I have heard from my ancestors that even in The Olden Days when wood was the only fuel, sometimes some moron would let his campfire get out of control and the first thing you know the whole dadblamed forest is on fire!
 
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If you need to regulate, better to regulate for results rather than picking a specific technology. My understanding is that most of the EU essentially picked diesel as a technology through fuel and other taxes. As much as people hate CAFE, it at least regulates a result and let's the automakers figure out the best ways to achieve the results. Even when it favors a technology (like hybrids) the advantage tends to be temporary to spark tech development and commercialization.
 

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CO2 is the weakest of all possible reasons to slap an "Ebola-Infected" stamp on a whole class of IC engines.

What's the story regarding gasser GDI particulate levels? To me that is as important, or more so, than a War On Diesels.

There is no pain-free power plant if you wish to enjoy modern civilization. Coal is getting cleaner, ditto oil, NG production is increasing in the USA at least, and oh BTW the first French nuke disaster like Chernoble or Fukishima might twist their government's thinking regarding "clean electric."

I have heard from my ancestors that even in The Olden Days when wood was the only fuel, sometimes some moron would let his campfire get out of control and the first thing you know the whole dadblamed forest is on fire!
France imports German 'clean electric' twice a year. First in the summer when the rivers in France don't have enough water to cool the nuclear plant, or the water is too hot. Secondly in the winter when the rivers are frozen. Luckily for them, we have enough of green energy. ;)


 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
France imports German 'clean electric' twice a year. First in the summer when the rivers in France don't have enough water to cool the nuclear plant, or the water is too hot. Secondly in the winter when the rivers are frozen. Luckily for them, we have enough of green energy. ;)

]
Yes, lots of very expensive green energy that is making the German chemical and other energy intensive industries uncompetitive. You Germans seem very keen to bankrupt yourselves to green "success". Oh and lots of coal has to be burnt to pick up the slack for those miraculous green energy sources that have proven so unreliable, so Germany will miss its CO2 targets!
http://online.wsj.com/articles/germanys-coal-binge-1411599265
 

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The most likely "truth" here:

French politicians noticed that Diesel fuels were not taxed as heavily as gasoline. Well, sacre bleu! Let's raise those Diesel taxes! And then we'll blame "environmental issues", the same reason we raised gas taxes over Diesel in the first place. Suckers!
 

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The most likely "truth" here:

French politicians noticed that Diesel fuels were not taxed as heavily as gasoline. Well, sacre bleu! Let's raise those Diesel taxes! And then we'll blame "environmental issues", the same reason we raised gas taxes over Diesel in the first place. Suckers!
Amen my bruthuh. The cynic is almost always correct.

And anyway, where have the French been right about anything lately?
 

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I have been reading about some exciting new diesel engine technology where they are using gasifier technology (what your granddad during WW2 fuel rationing used to turn woodchips into producer gas [also known as coalgas, syngas, watergas etc]) This is basically an oxidation of a carbon fuel in a low oxygen environment to produce carbon monoxide gas instead of carbon dioxide gas, the carbon monoxide then fed into the internal combustion engine as fuel.

But using modern science they use catalytic technology to also strip out hydrogen from diesel fuel into H2 as well as CO which with the remains of the diesel is burned in a lower compression engine producing no particulates and reduced oxides of nitrogen.

So just when you think the good old petrol (gas) or diesel engine is about defunct they go and improve it with innovation...




;)
 

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What a BS. For one thing that is politics. And this Manuel Valls will not be able to topple a complete system of diesel powered vehicles. Most of the taxis are diesel, all the busses and trucks are. And the French car industry will not allow a ban of diesel engines as it will harm their already poor sales.

This political tactic will, at the most, result in some better diesel technology and/or higher taxes on diesel cars. That's all.
 

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I have been reading about some exciting new diesel engine technology where they are using gasifier technology (what your granddad during WW2 fuel rationing used to turn woodchips into producer gas [also known as coalgas, syngas, watergas etc]) This is basically an oxidation of a carbon fuel in a low oxygen environment to produce carbon monoxide gas instead of carbon dioxide gas, the carbon monoxide then fed into the internal combustion engine as fuel.
Something is missing in the equation. How is Carbon-monoxide a fuel?
 

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What a BS. For one thing that is politics. And this Manuel Valls will not be able to topple a complete system of diesel powered vehicles. Most of the taxis are diesel, all the busses and trucks are. And the French car industry will not allow a ban of diesel engines as it will harm their already poor sales.

This political tactic will, at the most, result in some better diesel technology and/or higher taxes on diesel cars. That's all.
It's support from the French government that keeps Renault and PSA going - I suspect it's just political BS and jumping on the current anti-diesel campaign to justify equalising the fuel taxation between diesel and petrol/gasoline.

It's the traditionally low tax on diesel in France that made them the first European country to run a diesel majority of passenger cars.

I don't know the relative taxation levels on the two fuels are in the rest of Europe, but the UK equalised the tax levels some years ago - both very high, but equal - not in cost/litre but cost/kw energy as diesel has higher "energy density" than petrol/gasoline.
 

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I think we're heading quickly to the point where big cities like London and Paris will ban ALL vehicles that don't comply with the latest Euro emissions standard - whether it actually goes beyond that is questionable because public transport, service vehicles and delivery vehicles still need to operate even if private cars are banned.

Personally, big cities are the cauldron of hell as far as I'm concerned - for all sorts of reasons - so any ban won't affect me.
 

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What's the story regarding gasser GDI particulate levels?
Emitted particulate levels are almost always higher on a GDI engine compared to a similar port injected unit. The underlying cause is imperfect air-fuel mixture formation inside the combustion chamber. Spark ignition engines with direct injection have significantly reduced time for mixture formation compared to port injected engines.

Strategies to mitigate high levels of particulate emissions in GDI engines include accelerating the warm-up of the engine and the catalytic converter, optimizing air and fuel paths in the combustion chamber and the interaction between them, improving metering and timing of small fuel masses by the DI system in order to provide better fuel atomization, and using particulate filters (similar to diesel engines). Additionally, using ethanol blended fuel (such as E85) rather than straight gasoline can reduce primary particulate emissions up to 50%. Ethanol blends also reduce secondary particulate matter formation by diluting the content of aromatic compounds in gasoline.
 

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Something is missing in the equation. How is Carbon-monoxide a fuel?
All fuel that is burned to give off energy in the form of heat does so by being oxidized by adding an oxygen atom to the molecule. This results in a lower energy state.

If you are oxidizing a carbon molecule there are two relatively lower energy states available, one being carbon monoxide where one oxygen atom has been added to the carbon molecule, and an even lower energy state of carbon dioxide where two oxygen atoms have been added to the carbon molecule.

So carbon monoxide can be burned (oxidized) to form carbon dioxide and many of the cars in the world did exactly that during WWII.

You may be surprised what you can used as a fuel to burn in an internal combustion engine. Grind aluminum or iron filings into small enough dust and they will burn in a car engine as its sole fuel. Experiments on that are being done right now. The exhaust gas is rust after the iron has been oxidized...



Here is an entire paper written on using CO as a clean fuel extracted by gasification from coal.

https://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint archive/Files/Merge/Vol-18_3-0001.pdf


;)
 

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The most likely "truth" here:

French politicians noticed that Diesel fuels were not taxed as heavily as gasoline. Well, sacre bleu! Let's raise those Diesel taxes! And then we'll blame "environmental issues", the same reason we raised gas taxes over Diesel in the first place. Suckers!
Bingo!!! We have a winner!!!

Same here in Portugal: annual road tax for diesel powered cars got hiked by 10€/year because they noticed some 60% of new car sales are diesels ;)
 

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Battery - Hybrid - related Mafia makes another move with another dumb ass politician.


*****

Some things I have 'learned' over the last ten years or so.

Gassers do not even begin to have their total tail pipe out product and effects accounted for.

Three way cats have created new classes of compounds - some ( many ) of which do not exist in the natural world. Some really 'interesting' chemical production involved.

None look promising in a good sense; many look like an out right disaster waiting for recognition.

Gassers and within that, DI gassers are an utter disaster when particulate matter in the ultra nasty to life X = 2.5um / X < 2.5um particle sizes are accounted for.

Diesels are literally a breath of fresh air with regard to all that.

Diesels have not only a radically different ( after treat ) chemical composition advantage; they also enjoy a far superior particle advantage - because those ( pre treat ) bigger particles diesels produce are infinitely easier to trap.

Anti dieselists are willing to promote their various false agendas in any and all fashion. Critically, they always avoid a full count in terms of Pm and Pn and chemical composition and never use a relevant comparision to SI / Gasoline fired alternatives.

Accountability concepts such as Cradle to Grave and Well to Wheel are also avoided - unless the results can be modified and the truth prevented.


I'd use the phrase 'pseudo science supporting a money making agenda' but that would be insulting to the concept.

Over the years, treated LD automotive diesel has been falsely blamed for pollution and pollution effects from anything and all things under the sun.

Some of the junk that has included are ;

Tire dust.

Brake dust.


All sorts of pollution from Asia - in particular from Japan and China.


Ship and rail -oh, and one nobody really wants to talk about - from aircraft.


Military emissions, a target rich environment - pun intended.


Compounding all this is the lack of full accountability for electrification - and no, that is not just about cars and trucks and yes, it does include stationary sourcing and use.


For completely obvious and sane reasons battery electrification of the automobile is being refused by the end users here, there, and everywhere hence the need for the insanity and chicanery - and massive manipulation.

Mass adaptation has progressed just a little farther than the atomic powered car .......

As to the mouthpieces spewing these lies.....

Sure enough, many - most - to all of the rest of their various and numerous agendas are just as ugly or even worse.

Orwell btw, has been fully proven correct.


Want to do something less negative for the environment in terms of on road vehicle use ?

Buy a good clean diesel - and run it smartly for the next ten to fifteen years or so.

Triple points if run on non USA / non Monsanto non F.A.M.E. - BioDiesel.


And golly, has anyone added up the environmental costs of automatic transmissions fully designed to fail by xxx months and yyy miles ( and with a weak success distribution ) while attempting to prevent any and all smart in the field remediation efforts ?????

You really want the auto industry to make a real contribution ?

Make the product last twice as long and sell half as many .
 
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