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· Premium Member
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You guys are mixing up retro and heritage.

Not one single caddy now looks like a Caddy from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, etc... but do they keep the heritage of them being the leader of style, and technology? Well, at least they try.
Does the new C6 look exactly like any one vette. It has shapes of different vettes yes, and certain parts look like certain things, but thats part of the Vettes heritage. The Vette is not "retro", it uses heritage cues from vettes as most all cars with any history have done.
The Tbird is a retro design as they took almost an exact replica of the 54 tbird and made this one, down to the hood scoop and port holes. They designed this right off the old tbird. It is nicely done, and I like them and the style. Did the public? Did the public want to spend Vette prices for a car clearly not in the Vettes class? Guess not
The new mustang. Same situation, retro design. They took one specific model and turned it into a new car. I DONT like the mustang as it looks bulky, overweight, and about as un-aerodynamic as you can make it. It was a cool design back in the 60's, but not in the 21st century people.
Then you have Retro-themed cars.
The Pt Cruser basically brought in the retro theme cars. There was a 8 month waiting list for them, but I will bet you you can walk onto a chrystler dealers lot and pick one up for cheap. Did the sales drop? Yes. I like the PT when it came out, but as time went on it got uglier and uglier.
SSR. Retro themed off of chevy's older line up of trucks. I think its a cool looking truck, and its not gunna be flying around here and there like how many mustangs and PT's are. I havent gotten sick of the styling, but I dont think GM expects to sell boat loads. Its underpowerd and overpriced by dealers as much as 10k, and probably more in some areas.
Prowler. It lost its flare and fizzled out after people became aware that this car didnt do anything all that well, and again fell pray to teh vette. Why spend vette prices for a v6 car that cant handle all that well? Do I like the Prowler? Yeah, its one bad a$$ looking car. Underpowerd and the suspension needs to be overhauled.

Now you have the other 2 ******* children, the Mini and the Bug. They are retro, but have enough cues in them to keep them away from there older self, but have enough retro cues so people can say "hey thats a (enter name here)"
I dont like either car as they are just pure ugly IMO. The Bug which is chick car 100%, and the Mini...well... I dont know what to say but the price for one of these things are amazing. Same could be said for the Bug I guess when compared to the older versions.

Now I dont wana hear "You like it when GM does it, but not when everyone else does it" anymore because I have said that I like many other non-gm cars that have retro styled cars. Id like for designers to move away from this fad and just make cars that excite people without going into some old designs.
Best example is the 350z. Follows along the 240, 260, 280, 300 series greatly with sweet, sleek styling, good power, and tight handling. Did they go retro? Nope. Are they doing great sales wise? Im pretty sure. Retro is nice for a small niche car or something, but for something like the Mustang, Camaro, GTO, etc.. they need to be modern, and not hark back to the olden days. They need to be hip looking to bring in new buyers and to drag them away from the civics and corollas and whatever. Id be very surprised to see that down the road the Mustang doesnt get restyled for a more modern look after this whole retro thing blows over. Baby Boombers arent gunna want a Mustang.

If some of this didnt make sence, please excuse me now as Im typing this at 330 am. You should get the beasic idea.

· Premium Member
13,378 Posts
Originally posted by Tone@Feb 25 2004, 03:10 PM

Ok i gotta trim down your post... way to much filler there. Guitars?
This is about cars, not instruments.

Put a '55 - '57 Thunderbird beside today's counterpart. Do you really think it looks like a replica? It's obvious the cars are related, but the nod to Ford's more recent aero styling in the rounded front end and the radically different proportions make the new T-bird look more like a modern interpretation of a 50's T-bird than a replica
ahhhh your kidding right? The new tbird is almost an exact rendition, as is the Mustang, of its former self. The new tbird took exactly every cue from the first gen tbirds from tail lights, to grill, headlights, engine scoop, nearly everything, and it was given new, fresh lines. Same can be said with teh Mustang.

If GM stopped making the Corvette in, say 1978, and reintroduced the C6 today, wouldn't it have the same kind of stylistic relationship to the C3 cars as the new T-bird has to its older counterpart?
WHAT! No, the 1978 Vette looks nothing like the C6. Are there some cues such as the front fenders? Yes. But if teh Corvette returned after 27 year absence and looked like the C6, it would hit me like a ton of bricks. Only similarity would be the tails lights, and the front fenders and the name Corvette.

To say that the tbird is not retro, and is not a near exact replica of the first tbirds, you are out of your mind and to say taht the Corvette IS retro, you are still even further out of your mind.
Evolution yes, like the Vette has done along with many other cars like the Camaro, like the Firebird, like the Mustang DID. Thats evolution. To go back 30-50 years for a exact design replica is not "evolution" of a design.
Its easy for a desinger to go back and make a retro car based of the original design, but its hard for a designer to develop something that will take the world by storm like the original car did.

I will agree taht teh GT is a closer "replica" of the former GT40. Its in a market place where buyers have a love for Italian, not American. Weither or not the GT makes it in its class is still to be seen. Yes it outperforms the Ferrari and wahtever, but do you still want to own a 140k Ford? I think Ford should have moved itself along to position itself as a great auto maker before venturing off into some supercar frenzy.

Very few cars are not, in some way, influenced by what came before. Am I to understand the anti-retro folks simply object to cars where the earlier styling influence is obvious (Mustang, Corvette, Mini, Porche 911, etc.?). It seems the assumption is that working with an obvious past influence means the designer hasn't done their job. I disagre - I think making something new out of iconic cues is probably harder than coming up with something from scratch.
Say the Vette is retro one more time, and Ill light your country music award on fire. Am I anti-retro? Yes and no. No in the fact that I love old muscle cars from the 50's to the 70's. Id love to see a retro Camaro come out and I would buy one, which leads me to my Yes im agianst it. Retro does not seem to fair well, and in a pickey market like the sports coupe market, having a car that doesnt stirke gold wont do well. I cant see my beloved Camaro die 2 times in a matter of a decade. I like the SSR, I like(d) the PT, I like the Prowler, I like the Tbird. If there was an option on a good looking original design that would cary on the tradition of the Camaro, or a Retro first gen camaro with just modern drive train, Im going to go with teh Original design.

I have yet to see the "retro" in any of the new Caddies. As a matter of fact, I dont see any type of car that had any influence on the Caddy design. F117 maybe, but not a 67 Eldarado.

But, if some of today's "retro" cars continue on to evolve the look they have (Mustang, PT Cruiser, Mini), whose to say in a decade or so that they too won't have an evolving and growing look that also works?
Ok, so your saying that the Mustangs retro design will evolve too right? Oh jesus... I thought this one was bad... I cant wait for a 2017 Mustang II Retro design!! FUGLY x eleventy-billion. Finaly, a hybrid 120hp Mustang II.

I like the idea of evolving the design. Cars have been doing this till about the PT came in, rushing in this retro craze. Evolving, becoming better then the last model. The Mustangs fate will be seen in the upcoming few years. They just better hope no one offers another car like that on the market for the same price. A Hemi Charger for mid to high 20's is going to steal a LOT of thunder away from this amazing mustang :rolleyes:. I can only hope.

· Premium Member
13,378 Posts
holy crap you are going to tell me that the Vette is more retro then the Tbird!

im gunna pass out. You cant tell that the tbird isnt an almost exact replica of the old tbird? But you some how can see the retroness of the Vette better?
On one hand you have the Vette whos basic shape has stayed the same since 63. Long nose, short deck.
Then you have the Tbird whos design has went from 2dr sporst car, to 2dr, 4 seater larger luxury coupe, and have basicly stayed that way till they killed it in 97.
How can you NOT look at the new tbird and say, "that looks just like the old tbird."
When you look at the C6, you know its a vette due to its evolutionary style and progression from c2 to c3 to c4 to c5. I am purplexed that you guys are saying that the Vette is more retro then the Tbird. Desmo, you have said a lot of mindless things on here, but this one takes the cake. If you cannot tell that the new tbird is a near exact design replica of the old 54's-57's, then I would like for you to check out your eyes. This is not my opionion that the tbird looks like the old version, but it seems to be 99% of the populations opinion. Ray Charles could see that. You just chose to fight with me over this.
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