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Anyone with a brain is for fuel efficientcy in cars. However the scion of FOMOCO thinks gas costing 4$ a gallon would be a good thing. Seems the clown does not like cafe standards cause he can't build a small car Americans want at the profit margin he wants. He reasons if gas is expensive it will force Americans into smaller cars he can sell for more profit. ONE PROBLEM FORDY. If I am going into smaller cars it ain't going to be a FORD. The people at Honda and Toyota must be laughing their butts off. They are dusting off plans two build a dozen more auto plants in the USA to keep up with the demand this would create. FORDY is just an example of what the hell has been wrong in Detroit with the big three leadership going back to 1975. They could never figure out small cars do work, make money, (ask Toyota/Honda) if they build high quality vehicles. The fact that they never really tried (Ford wants to sell F-150's) and now wants the public to pay for his and other auto exec's stupidity is ammusing. GM just be happy Delta and Kappa are in the folder ready to go if this clown gets his way.
 

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Good point, but don't forget small cars are much more popular abroad than they are in the States. Asia especially. The small roads, clogged cities and high gas prices have been forcing automakers to fine tune their small cars for decades. However, we Americans have been telling our domesetic auto makers to make things bigger and faster (SUVs obviously, but also look at the current resurgance of V8s).

And now, during this time Ford wants to force people into small cars? So...ummm...which Ford would they buy? The Focus?

Every time I think about this, I can't come up with any sort of logical explanation to what the heck he was thinking.
 

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He is just one ((OF MENY)) so called Capitalists who are actually more ((MARXISTS)) in there thinking. Its a shame he has (((SO))) mutch power NOW!!! <_<
 

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it's not just asia and europe that enjoy smaller cars, up here in Canada (The great white north) FWD compacts sell like the ****ens, 90% of the cars of the road are compacts, and the other 10% are works trucks or minivans. The point being even if the states doesnt have a monstrous demand for compact the rest of NA does, I think it's rather sad that it took so long for an American to see this for himself
 

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Besides the escape hybrid (which is being built buy toyota, right?) do they have any hyrdogen concepts?

Who has the most hydrogen concepts?

And is it me, or were the last two hyrdogen concepts built by Toyota much like GM's. (just something I noticed)

I don't really see Ford's reasoning for this from a business perceptive. Isn't their truck +20% of their sales? That would really hurt them.
 

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The Escape Hybrid is being built by Ford, not Toyota...Toyota will supply some parts, but the vehicle is mostly Ford and built in a Ford plant. Ford has hydrogen concepts including the Model U and the Focus FCV. Everyone's got hydrogen-powered concepts and a few even work.

But the idea of $4/gallon gas isn't a popular concept, but it's not as dumb as you might think. I'm all for freedom of choice and capitalism, but Americans aren't the brightest lot. Buying an SUV over a minivan is completely image over practicality. A 14 mpg SUV with less usable space than a 20 mpg minivan has nothing but "impressing the Jones" factor to recommend it (I know, you're going to say "I can off-road in the SUV or tow a boat," but 97% of SUVs NEVER go off road and I'm sure a similar number NEVER tow ANYTHING, let alone something that a minivan can't).

I like our cheap gas in the US. I also like things like the recent tax cuts. But the intelligent (long-term thinker) side of me says that these are not good for the future.

Higher gas prices would cause people to buy more efficient cars. An industry focused on more efficient cars would direct more resources toward alternative fuels and better technology.

The problem with moving toward alternative fuels like hydrogen is the infrastructure. If the market saw an urgency to build these vehicles, money would be invested in creating filling stations and repair services for them. But until gas is in such short supply that the price itself moves to $4-5/gallon, nobody's going to look ahead. Oil is a limited resource and we need to look toward the future.

And in case I didn't make myself clear, I love cars...I love driving...I love tossing a car around an autocross course...I love getting dirty taking apart or putting together a car. And I love our cheap gas prices that allow me to do this anytime I want. I also see that NOT preparing for an eventuality in this market is stupid.
 

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Originally posted by Hudson@Apr 28 2004, 01:48 PM
The Escape Hybrid is being built by Ford, not Toyota...Toyota will supply some parts, but the vehicle is mostly Ford and built in a Ford plant. Ford has hydrogen concepts including the Model U and the Focus FCV. Everyone's got hydrogen-powered concepts and a few even work.

But the idea of $4/gallon gas isn't a popular concept, but it's not as dumb as you might think. I'm all for freedom of choice and capitalism, but Americans aren't the brightest lot. Buying an SUV over a minivan is completely image over practicality. A 14 mpg SUV with less usable space than a 20 mpg minivan has nothing but "impressing the Jones" factor to recommend it (I know, you're going to say "I can off-road in the SUV or tow a boat," but 97% of SUVs NEVER go off road and I'm sure a similar number NEVER tow ANYTHING, let alone something that a minivan can't).

I like our cheap gas in the US. I also like things like the recent tax cuts. But the intelligent (long-term thinker) side of me says that these are not good for the future.

Higher gas prices would cause people to buy more efficient cars. An industry focused on more efficient cars would direct more resources toward alternative fuels and better technology.

The problem with moving toward alternative fuels like hydrogen is the infrastructure. If the market saw an urgency to build these vehicles, money would be invested in creating filling stations and repair services for them. But until gas is in such short supply that the price itself moves to $4-5/gallon, nobody's going to look ahead. Oil is a limited resource and we need to look toward the future.

And in case I didn't make myself clear, I love cars...I love driving...I love tossing a car around an autocross course...I love getting dirty taking apart or putting together a car. And I love our cheap gas prices that allow me to do this anytime I want. I also see that NOT preparing for an eventuality in this market is stupid.
I agree with everything you say here except the percentage of people that tow with their SUVs. I'm sure that many more than 3 percent tow something too heavy for a minivan (perhaps you didn't mean that literally). Is it 80%? No, but around where I live, it could be close to half.

Even though most minivans (and crossover SUVs) claim tow ratings of 3500 lbs, I wouldn't be comfortable towing much more than 2000 with them on any sort of regular basis. I don't see the whole FWD powertrain meant for that kind of strain.

I've been driving SUVs for most of the time since I started driving 24 years ago. It certainly wasn't the popular thing back then to own one, but I've always appreciated their capabilities. Much of that time I've also had another car I can drive for schlepping around town, going to and from work and to the store. I generally use mine when I need it for something big, including towing my boat.
 

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Another point -- there are a couple of ways to raise fuel economy. The current method is through regulation CAFE in the States and Transport Canada regs here in Canada.

The puts the responsbility on the manufacturer to somehow build and sell cars that get good fuel economy -- even when there is little on no economic incentive for the buyer to do so.

The alternative is to build the cost into the fuel through taxes -- something that we do more in Canada than in the States (although my understanding is that varies from State to State). With an economic incentive to buy fuel efficent cars, the manufacturer only has to worry about building a competitive product at a profit.

Ford wanting to get out of the "incentiving people to buy fuel efficiency business" isn't as bad a strategy as it may first appear. When you have to take a loss on Foci (and, perhaps due to the popluarity of the Focus, this may no longer be the case, but it certainly has been in the past) to sell a bunch of high profit Crown Victorias (or V8 Mustangs), it makes sense to try and figure out a way to make a profit on everything you sell. And if you can convince the government to give you back some of the tax revenues they collect to do R&D on future (alternative fueled) vehicles -- more the better.

Bill Ford may truly care about the enironment, but he and his family didn't make their fortune by pursuing company-killing business strategies.
 

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:rolleyes:
 

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Originally posted by Hudson@Apr 28 2004, 09:57 PM
As long as gas prices are cheap, people will by gas guzzlers.
Sadly, they're not cheap... :unsure:
 

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2.00 a gallon is CHEAP gas. We DON'T need any more taxes.... The gas supply is just fine people... relax and stop watching so much CNN. The Ozone hole is fine, it is not getting warmer globaly... just relax, buy your SUV and enjoy.
 

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Originally posted by geronimo66@Apr 29 2004, 02:08 PM
2.00 a gallon is CHEAP gas. We DON'T need any more taxes.... The gas supply is just fine people... relax and stop watching so much CNN. The Ozone hole is fine, it is not getting warmer globaly... just relax, buy your SUV and enjoy.
Hmm... A wee bit o' sarcasm there? :lol:
 

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Originally posted by cyboexpo2002+Apr 29 2004, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (cyboexpo2002 @ Apr 29 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-geronimo66@Apr 29 2004, 02:08 PM
2.00 a gallon is CHEAP gas.  We DON'T need any more taxes.... The gas supply is just fine people... relax and stop watching so much CNN.  The Ozone hole is fine, it is not getting warmer globaly... just relax, buy your SUV and enjoy.
Hmm... A wee bit o' sarcasm there? :lol: [/b][/quote]
:lol:
 

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No really I haven't a worry in the world about gas supply, nor the "ozone" or that loomeing threat of Global Warming (Thats sarcasim).
 

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Originally posted by geronimo66@Apr 29 2004, 06:08 PM
2.00 a gallon is CHEAP gas.   We DON'T need any more taxes.... The gas supply is just fine people... relax and stop watching so much CNN.   The Ozone hole is fine, it is not getting warmer globaly... just relax, buy your SUV and enjoy.
I agree with you about gas prices,because the price it takes to get gas, contain it and ship it to us is costing more money than the profit the gas companies make.The goverment is more in control with the high gas prices than the oil companies and the gas station owners are really taking the biggest hit, because there money mostly comes from the inside of the store purchases after the customer gets gas and recentlly are taking a lot of blame for the high prices.The price of gas is climbing just like the cost of living,so dont be discouraged from buying a SUV or V-8 musle car because of gas prices.Lets face it america likes big trucks and fast loud cars,so dont let the gas prices influence what kind of car you drive.Hybrids have good intentions but lets face it nobody wants to get passed buy a scion... :eek:
 
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