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US Design vs Euro and Oz design

  • NA Has it right

    Votes: 11 15.5%
  • Euro and Oz are getting it right

    Votes: 45 63.4%
  • I like Fords new direction (post example)

    Votes: 6 8.5%
  • They are all boring as bat**** and Ford is doomed

    Votes: 9 12.7%

Ford WTF is going on?

5K views 47 replies 28 participants last post by  ray101988 
#1 ·
Okay so this may sound like I'm starting trouble but seriously, what is going on with Ford NA? The flex is kinda cool, but I just had a brief look at the Ford NA lineup and it's kind of embarassing. :eek: I recently read an article on the meeting of design minds within the global ford empire and there is a battle going on at the moment in regard to US design vs. the Kinetic Design approach taken by Ford Europe. I understand the differences in taste between our nations but do you really like the Fusion over the Mondeo?




What about this Focus





vs This Focus ?



I know these two aren't the same but its as close as I can relate



 
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#2 ·
I agree w/you 100%. If Ford did nothing else than take the global versions of all their cars and plop them down on the US lots, they'd be rivaling Toyota for market share right now. Instead they keep bringing out bland designs that nobody wants, realizes that they suck, then scurry around trying to fast-track a replacement or redesign. It's so absurdly stupid!

I thought Mulally was smarter than this!!
 
#4 ·
I've been hard on Mulally more than a few times, but he is smarter than this and that is why he isn't gullible enough to fall for the idea that bringing the Europe Focus and Mondeo and Aussie Falcon over here will solve Ford's problems in North America.

The reality is that these vehicles would all be pricey even if built here, and that is no small problem since it either entails a small or non existent profit margin for Ford or a high price tag that wards off customers. Even more, while very nice Mondeo and Focus aren't sufficiently different enough compared to Japanese models already established here in the US to make serious headway anytime soon, particularly not at a cost disadvantage. Sold in relatively small numbers as a Mercury model they might do fine, but they would be hard pressed to top 200k units sold per year in either case even at a slim profit margin and therefore would be terrible Fords on our shores.

For an example of exactly what you could expect with Mondeo you need look no further than the new Malibu which is hardly setting the sales world on fire. I've heard it all regarding why this car isn't doing better, from limited availability to 'it will take time', but the reality is that availability has become more than good enough in the last couple months to support far better sales than we are seeing but it just isn't happening.

What is happening? A whole slew of folks in Altimas, Camrys, and Accords are running down to their local Chevy dealer and driving the new Malibu leaving the experience surprised at how good the Malibu has gotten, but still returning to their Accord or Camry nevertheless because all Chevy has done is build an American Accord. Nice? Yes. But it offers nothing compelling enough to convince those happy with their existing models to jump ship. Even worse, the Bu appears incapable of coaxing noticeable numbers of existing Chevy owners, in vehicles like the Impala, to move up the the Malibu likely because they aren't willing to give up the huge rebates cars like the Impala offer.

Falcon would be in much the same boat if not quite as bad. An expensive sedan to build and sell which offers far less distinctive style than the existing Chrysler 300 hardly sounds like a recipe for success to me. And in this day of tightening fuel economy expectations Ford would likely be loathe to extol the merits of the most visible Falcon model, the V8 anyway.....blunting the cars impact even further.

What Ford has been doing in North America isn't well advised to say the least, but moving to a plan just as ill-advised is hardly a way to make progress. At the moment Ford's best hope to break back into the mainstream effectively is the advent of Ecoboost and the current strategy of lightening models during every redesign/refresh. That strategy could and should set Ford apart and will give them their best chance for success.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I do like the NA Fusion over the Mondeo, just because the new european fords look the same - the Fiesta (Verve), Mondeo and even the new Focus shares the same lines, while the NA Fusion looks different. The European Focus and the Australian Falcon do look better then the NA Focus and the Taurus, but also there are cars in fords lineup that are american designed only such as the Mustang that shouldn't be forgotten.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Chevy seems to have the same problem that Ford had with the Malibu, in that it is a fine car like the new Taurus, but there are other sedans close in size the are also compelling and stealing sales.

But that said, I disagree that the all new Mondeo is that much nicer than the coming Fusion will be. It does not even offer AWD. Add an EcoBoost and I have no use for a Mondel. I hear the new Taurus will be great too.
 
#7 ·
1) Mondeo and Fusion merge into a single product for MY2013.

I personally prefer the Fusion. Mondeo is ok, but would be way too expensive to sell here. Who's paying $45,000 for a Ford sedan?

2) Euro Focus and US Focus merge in 1.5 years' time into a single product. It is being designed in Michigan. Think giant Verve/Fiesta.

3) Taurus is going RWD at some point. It may merge with the Falcon, but who knows.
 
#9 ·
1) Mondeo and Fusion merge into a single product for MY2013.

I personally prefer the Fusion. Mondeo is ok, but would be way too expensive to sell here. Who's paying $45,000 for a Ford sedan?

2) Euro Focus and US Focus merge in 1.5 years' time into a single product. It is being designed in Michigan. Think giant Verve/Fiesta.

3) Taurus is going RWD at some point. It may merge with the Falcon, but who knows.
This sounds a lot like what GM "insiders" were saying 2 years ago. New Cobalt never came, CAFE is killing our Zetas, at least we got the Malibu.
 
#10 ·
I never understood Ford's argument for not bringing us the Euro Focus on the new platform. It always confused me because the Mazda3 is on the new platform, has great styling and a stellar interior for its competetion and yet they seem to sell it at a good profit.

Anyway, I always thought Mercury would be a great way for Ford to sell their euro cars in NA. Just as long as they don't soften and cheapen them out. Basically do the same as GM is doing for Saturn by making it an opel clone.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Poll Options
US Design vs Euro and Oz design
[ ] NA Has it right
[ ] Euro and Oz are getting it right
[ ] I like Fords new direction (post example)
[ ] They are all boring as bat**** and Ford is doomed
[X] none of the above/other


^ as usual
tho if
[ ] I like Fords new direction (post example)
had said 'directions' might have voted for that.

imho most of what's 'going on' is just media blandishments = the "F" in WTF

Fomoco is proceeding with THE Plan - just hope they've built in enuf flexibility to provide established alternatives (ready'n'waiting) for when things 'gang aft agley'.

re: the design DNA's
imho a crossbreed/successor/descendant of all 3 will be better than any of the existing themes (mongrels are usually more robust than 'purebreds'... "Mudbloods Forever!")
&
- kinetic tends to be over-styled/busy
- U.S.Focus is over-styled too but just the front detailing, not the sheetmetal
- AuFalcon's styling is progressing nicely, thank you, & the v6-update will hopefully show this..., Huntsman = Great Expectations!!!
&
I'm still convinced that Orion is already at least halfway to Being Huntsman,
no matter what any Ford exec says/needs to say to appease NIH-infected locals
(edit/insert: anyone notice that astronomically-speaking, Orion IS the Huntsman?)
&
hope the Aussie design team enjoys frequent flyer miles & their surfing-layovers in Hawaii
;)
 
#16 ·
Ford's styling direction rests solely with Europe & Oz.
North American Ford styling is atrocious, generic, devoid of style, and looks like they were birthed by a Gillette razor.

Until Ford realizes that their most exciting rest outside the NA market, they're gonna be languishing in mediocrity.
 
#17 ·
Ford's styling direction rests solely with Europe & Oz.
North American Ford styling is atrocious, generic, devoid of style, and looks like they were birthed by a Gillette razor.
Gillette razor meets squares to be more specific.
 
#18 ·
Everyone here knows that Mulally said they were making Ford global right? And we're suppose to get an Americanized European Focus between 2010-2012? There has also been reports that Ford's new RWD sedan will be heavily influenced by the new Falcon. Calm down. He can't globalize Ford's platforms with a snap of his fingers. They have it planned out. By 2012 they will have all new cars in their lineup. He has already stated this.
 
#22 ·
Everyone here knows that Mulally said they were making Ford global right? And we're suppose to get an Americanized European Focus between 2010-2012? There has also been reports that Ford's new RWD sedan will be heavily influenced by the new Falcon. Calm down. He can't globalize Ford's platforms with a snap of his fingers. They have it planned out. By 2012 they will have all new cars in their lineup. He has already stated this.


Agreed;)

This argument is now boring, come 2012, if Ford is still behaving the same i'd say this argument would be more relevant.
IMO GM is still behind in this regard also.

Amazing how so many think auto giants can be turned around so quickly...
 
#19 ·
THere shouldn't be an "Americanized Euro Focus". It should be a Euro Focus sold/built in US. The Saturn Aura is an Americanized Opel Vectra, and see how that turned out :/
 
#24 ·
THere shouldn't be an "Americanized Euro Focus". It should be a Euro Focus sold/built in US. The Saturn Aura is an Americanized Opel Vectra, and see how that turned out :/
When they said "Americanized" they were referring to some tweaks in appearance to make it more appealing to Americans. I believe they would also change some things to decrease the price. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't result in too much of a difference from the current Euro Focus though.
 
#21 ·
Bring them over as Mercury's...they'll sell millions and FoMoCo will have the slight problem of the slightly upscale Mercury grossly outselling mainstream Ford
 
#36 ·
Okay so this may sound like I'm starting trouble but seriously, what is going on with Ford NA? The flex is kinda cool, but I just had a brief look at the Ford NA lineup and it's kind of embarassing. :eek: I recently read an article on the meeting of design minds within the global ford empire and there is a battle going on at the moment in regard to US design vs. the Kinetic Design approach taken by Ford Europe. I understand the differences in taste between our nations but do you really like the Fusion over the Mondeo?




What about this Focus





vs This Focus ?



I know these two aren't the same but its as close as I can relate



Looking at these pictures, why is it that we know which cars look better, but the Ford brass does not? Is it so blatant that Ford does not want to improve on NA sales? I mean, wtf? I could question some of gm's designs as well compared to European versions, but not here.
 
#37 ·
The Mondeo looks like it had it's ass chopped off.....the Fusion really isn't that bad in black...tint the windows, throw on some rims and you have a sick lookin ride.

The Euro focus wins over ours obviously.......but personally, I'd rather get my hands on one of your Fairlaines (recently canceled Large RWDer) and trick that out.....
 
#38 ·
I much prefer the Euro-style styling, but the Fusion is a much better platform for North America. It has all wheel drive and the larger engine bay gives better flexibility for things such as more power engines or the upcoming Hybrid system system that will not be available in the Mondeo until the platforms merge.
 
#41 ·
No, probably like others on here, he has heard it........... and either a) chooses not to believe it until he sees it, or b) thinks this should all be able to be accomplished immediately.

In other words, he has no sense of what it takes to produce a vehicle, from conception to showroom.

If Mullaly had been in charge 3 years sooner, you would have seen the platforms merged that much sooner. However, it didn't happen. If he throws away what is in the pipeline........... then his replacements are still 3 years out, at the earliest. You tell me, what is better........... same ol product for 3 more years, or considerably improved product now? Keeping in mind that we are still getting his replacements soon.

And yes, this is all getting tiresome, as we have read the same arguements over and over. Just mix up the words differently.

PS, the hideous Focus, that many here love to hate............ has seen its sales rise significantly since the refresh. Guess the general public does not suffer from your disdain.
 
#42 ·
I'd like to argue on the behalf of the Taurus which I find to be a far more attractive and modern design than the Aussie Falcon which by comparison is extremely non-destinctive and old fashioned with innert lines and stretched overhangs. Quite frankly, the Holden has done a better job anyway and I find the Falcon a failure by comparison.

The Taurus has a nice presence on the road with it's crsp lines and bright details, it really stands out as fresh, modern, and sophisticated. Most of the lot just blend in and make no statement whatseover.

The same goes for the Fusion reletive to the Mondeo, which is normally sold in much less glamorous versions of the car pictured above.
 
#45 · (Edited)
I'd like to argue on the behalf of the Taurus which I find to be a far more attractive and modern design than the Aussie Falcon which by comparison is extremely non-destinctive and old fashioned with innert lines and stretched overhangs. Quite frankly, the Holden has done a better job anyway and I find the Falcon a failure by comparison.

The Taurus has a nice presence on the road with it's crsp lines and bright details, it really stands out as fresh, modern, and sophisticated. Most of the lot just blend in and make no statement whatseover.

The same goes for the Fusion reletive to the Mondeo, which is normally sold in much less glamorous versions of the car pictured above.
I'd like you to explain to me how Holden has done a better job with VE than what Ford has done with FG falcon?
Have you driven the two back to back?

This constant focus on front and rear overhangs is getting old. In my eyes both VE and FG have conservative styling, both with issues of detail.


Ford has actually improved every major measurable aspect of FG compared to BF11 falcon.

More space throughout, minimal weight increase of 10KG, more fuel efficient, better handling, better quality, safer and stronger body shell, more features, more visibility, Ford claimed you can make thinner A pillars without sacrificing safety.
There is no apsect where Ford went backwards, unlike Holden with VE.

Holden claims perfect weight balance of 50/50 to aid handling dynamics,
Yet people harp on about falcons heavy, tall inline 6 engine and excessive front overhang yet Ford has claimed a weight balance of 53/47 and the bet is on FG falcon out handling VE like BA did over VY and VZ commodore.

Same with overall vehicle weight, VE is about 1690kg while FG is 1704kg, a difference of 14kg even falcon has that tall, heavy inline 6cyl engine.

FG is more fuel efficient than VE also...

Here are the front and rear overhang figures for FG XT falcon sedan...

front overhang 942mm
rear overhang 1175mm

I can't find figures for the VE omega sedan for a direct comparison, maybe someone else could obtain those figures?

Both have there positives and negatives, but engineering wise IMO Ford has done better overall package on FG compared to Holden considering VE is using a global platform and engine while falcon uses a unique aussie platform and engine and tigher budget.
FG is 80%-90% new while VE would be 95% new.

I'd like to know why VE doesn't completely trounce FG engineering wise due to the more exotic budget and hardware VE has access to?
 
#46 ·
I'd LOVE to try an AU Falcon, and I like the clean conservative styling. That is an example of conservative that looks good, in contrast with the 500-er, Taurus.

I also love how they don't have rediculously short greenhouse and/or the 'nose-down a ss-up" look that makes so many of our cars look terrible.

Funny coincidence, the uncanny resemblance between the Ford Fusion and the Gillette Fusion.

http://www.gillettefusion.com/us/custom/en_US/
 
#47 ·
Now that I think of this more, I have started to disagree with the idea of keeping Ford's current lineup and then selling the European Fords as Mercurys. This would be an economic nightmare and almost impossible to retool everything to produce that many more product lines for here in the U.S.


What I think Ford should do is engineer one platform, and make one car. U.S. Europe, and Australia all combining their efforts to make 3-4 kickass cars, instead of 12 or more cars.


With this, Ford should engineer everything with much greater flexibility as well. For example, in Europe where small cars are the primary focus just as midsize to large is here, they can tool the cars to meet that pricepoint. Here in the U.S. where they are going for a lower pricepoint they can easilly eliminate features such as damped gloveboxes and grab handles, auto climate control, heated power seats, trip computers, and overall just materials, maybe no leather wrapped steering wheel and door handles, etc. It would still be the same car, just tooled for a lower pricepoint.

Then, maybe Mercurys can be fitted with higher quality materials and features that is much more like the Euro cars.

They need to be more efficient and scale back as far as the powerplants they use, the platforms, and the cars.
 
#48 ·
Now that I think of this more, I have started to disagree with the idea of keeping Ford's current lineup and then selling the European Fords as Mercurys. This would be an economic nightmare and almost impossible to retool everything to produce that many more product lines for here in the U.S.


What I think Ford should do is engineer one platform, and make one car. U.S. Europe, and Australia all combining their efforts to make 3-4 kickass cars, instead of 12 or more cars.


With this, Ford should engineer everything with much greater flexibility as well. For example, in Europe where small cars are the primary focus just as midsize to large is here, they can tool the cars to meet that pricepoint. Here in the U.S. where they are going for a lower pricepoint they can easilly eliminate features such as damped gloveboxes and grab handles, auto climate control, heated power seats, trip computers, and overall just materials, maybe no leather wrapped steering wheel and door handles, etc. It would still be the same car, just tooled for a lower pricepoint.

Then, maybe Mercurys can be fitted with higher quality materials and features that is much more like the Euro cars.

They need to be more efficient and scale back as far as the powerplants they use, the platforms, and the cars.
Lol. Thats what they're doing. Like I've been saying throughout this whole thread, Ford is going global. That means same car in all places. Thats why a lot of euro/aussie and NA vehicles will be converging in the next few years.
 
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