GM Inside News Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
DETROIT -- Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday that sales were down 3.2 percent in February in what has been a sluggish new year for U.S. automakers.

The country’s second-largest automaker saw its biggest decrease in car sales, which fell 15.2 percent from February 2003. Truck sales for the Ford, Lincoln and Mercury brands were up 3.3 percent, buoyed by the continued success of F-series pickups.

The company said it was cutting second-quarter production at its North American assembly plants by 5 percent from last year, slashing car production by 21 percent and increasing truck production by 2 percent.

First-quarter production will be slightly less -- 1.5 percent -- than previously announced, Ford said.

Full Story HERE
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
As soon as the Mustang goes on-line...that'll change,but 4 how long? :unsure:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
790 Posts
Originally posted by casket_demon@Mar 3 2004, 02:29 AM
As soon as the Mustang go on-line...that'll change,but 4 how long? :unsure:
it will change, but i dont think for long, i dont know any retro car that has gone strong past about 2 years, then a sharper than average decline
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,963 Posts
Originally posted by casket_demon@Mar 3 2004, 02:29 AM
As soon as the Mustang go on-line...that'll change,but 4 how long? :unsure:
hehehe I dont think 200k mustangs will make up for sh*tty cars like the sable, taurus, focus, crown vic, grand mark, continental,.....

exactly. More like hope to god that the 500 and Monterey come out SOON. Anyone thinking that the mustang will repeat its million selling deal as did it back in 65 to 67, your asking for a lot.

Its really sad how the fate of a car company rests in a truck. The sedans suck, and if the imports start making really good trucks, and chevy and dodge keep getting better with ford sitting behind.... I forsee many bad years.

Maybe another supercar? Make the GT have 700hp! that will help! :rolleyes:

Ford is not impressing me with any new product, but Im a hard man to please when it comes to the blue oval.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,853 Posts
I do somewhat admire Ford's longterm view of fewer profit-eroding fleet sales and more of a focus on retail sales. I assume that, along with some generally very weak cars, are responsible for Ford's poor showing in the US and Canada this past month. It does take some "gumption" to do that.

As I've said before, it would be nice to have a strong Ford and GM both taking share from everyone else... Maybe in a fantasy world that'll happen.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,621 Posts
ford doesn't have any definite winners in the pipeline. 500 hundred will sell, but not amazingly, i don't think. too many other good, much more stylish sedans out there. freestyle is a yawn, and really only a step removed from the escape. nothing in mercury or lincolns future lineup looks terribly exciting either (the next aviator is a long ways off, i believe). the 'stang'll move quite quickly at first, but'll level off rapidly and probably not do much better than the current one. so yeah, it's up to the F-150.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Originally posted by bigals87z28+Mar 3 2004, 07:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (bigals87z28 @ Mar 3 2004, 07:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-casket_demon@Mar 3 2004, 02:29 AM
As soon as the Mustang go on-line...that'll change,but 4 how long?  :unsure:
hehehe I dont think 200k mustangs will make up for sh*tty cars like the sable, taurus, focus, crown vic, grand mark, continental,.....

exactly. More like hope to god that the 500 and Monterey come out SOON. Anyone thinking that the mustang will repeat its million selling deal as did it back in 65 to 67, your asking for a lot.

Its really sad how the fate of a car company rests in a truck. The sedans suck, and if the imports start making really good trucks, and chevy and dodge keep getting better with ford sitting behind.... I forsee many bad years.

Maybe another supercar? Make the GT have 700hp! that will help! :rolleyes:

Ford is not impressing me with any new product, but Im a hard man to please when it comes to the blue oval. [/b][/quote]
I agree with everything, but another supercar, that will not help their sells either, at least not at over $100,000 each car. I don't like the blue oval either. These guys need to get on the ball if they want to stay on top. B)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
14,963 Posts
Originally posted by sam4irene+Mar 3 2004, 09:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (sam4irene @ Mar 3 2004, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2004, 07:16 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-casket_demon
@Mar 3 2004, 02:29 AM
As soon as the Mustang go on-line...that'll change,but 4 how long?  :unsure:

hehehe I dont think 200k mustangs will make up for sh*tty cars like the sable, taurus, focus, crown vic, grand mark, continental,.....

exactly. More like hope to god that the 500 and Monterey come out SOON. Anyone thinking that the mustang will repeat its million selling deal as did it back in 65 to 67, your asking for a lot.

Its really sad how the fate of a car company rests in a truck. The sedans suck, and if the imports start making really good trucks, and chevy and dodge keep getting better with ford sitting behind.... I forsee many bad years.

Maybe another supercar? Make the GT have 700hp! that will help! :rolleyes:

Ford is not impressing me with any new product, but Im a hard man to please when it comes to the blue oval.
I agree with everything, but another supercar, that will not help their sells either, at least not at over $100,000 each car. I don't like the blue oval either. These guys need to get on the ball if they want to stay on top. B) [/b][/quote]
I was being sarcastic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
Almost the entire decline is in Taurus sales as Ford is cutting fleet sales to increase resale and increase Focus volume. They also have a refreshed Focus coming out in a few months so that's hurting sales. This decline in mass-market car sales is entirely consistent with their strategy and not worrying since they have a whole new lineup coming out in the next two years (redesigned Focus, new Futura, new 500 and Freestyle, etc.).

Most of the analyists in fact are saying that of the automakers to report Ford is doing the best despite the numbers seeming to indicate otherwise. They've increased in all the areas they want to: at the high end with PAG and Lincoln, and in trucks and SUVs (the most profitable segments of the market BTW). Of those only Jag' didn't see an increase (they were down 2% IIRC), and that's very good news considering they have an all-new S-type and XK coming out very soon.

Also IIRC Mazda sales aren't included with Ford and they've increased their US marketshare drastically in the past ~2 years, and that will only continue with the new Mazda3.

Basically, Ford's overall strategy it to trade volume of sales for quality of sales. It seems to be working, but the big test will be the US mainstream sedan market with the Futura and 500. Both those cars will clearly be best in their classes in all respects (especially the Futura which is in the much more competative segment) - the question is whether they Ford brand can take on Honda and Toyota for the high quality, high profit sales they're after
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,258 Posts
With most of the aging car fleet at Ford being replaced in the next two years, I'm not surprised to see sales slowing a bit right now. Ford's strategy is about long-term success, even if things have to suffer a little bit in the short-term.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Long-term sucess??...I don't see it. Wait, maybe B I see a litlle something in the Freestyle,but nothing else Ford has coming out I would even think about. The Mustang looks like old a$$,the FreeStar looks like the Windstar (not much reach there),the new Focus (hahahaha), the 500 (Toyota Camry bland), the F-150 (great interior,but could I have a great exterior 2 match?) and should I even begin 2 chew on Mercury???...2 words..The Montego HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Speaking of Supercars..isn't the Shelby Cobra supposed 2 stepping up 2 the plate???...that'd make Supercar #2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
The 500 and Freestyle are meant to be bland. They essentially take over from the current Taurus but are a new pardigrim in the industry, being much larger, taller, and at the same time more effecient than anything we've seen before. Basically it's taking where the midsize segment has been slowly headed in the last few years (bigger, blander, more luxurious) and taking it to its logical end. For the price it's very hard to imagine how a top-trim Camrey or Accord could compete with the larger, more capable, more refined 500 for a similar price - especially considering how manageable the outside dimensions are and how effeceint it will be with a CVT or 6-speed auto.

The Futura will do almost the complete opposit. It's style (from people inside the development loop) is said to be as progressive as the original Taurus was in its day. The mechanicals, similarily, push the envelope in all respects: AWD, industry-leading 4-cylinders, 6-cylinders (3.0 and 3.5), the possibility of diesel power if that's where the market heads, and a new Ford developed hybrid powertrain (that's said to be power rather than economy biased). The fact that it's developed on the Mazda6 platform would also indicate that it will be a very sporting ride, with a 300hp version in the works and manual transmissions offered over the whole range.

One very important aspect of the Futura (and 500 to a lesser extent) that's often overlooked is the fact that it will be AWD, which means that nobody for the forseeable future will be able to touch Ford in terms of the horsepower race (any more horsepower and the FWD Maxima/Altima/Accord/etc. will be undriveable).

...It's incredible how short-sighted the market can be, as if a company is only worth it's latest quarters sales numbers. It's still a gamble at this point but if I had any money I'd consider buying Ford stock now while everyone seems to be negative on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,003 Posts
Stewy UR totally right..I 4got how people like their cars 2 B bland. Never ever understand that.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,621 Posts
Originally posted by stewacide@Mar 4 2004, 04:25 AM
The 500 and Freestyle are meant to be bland. They essentially take over from the current Taurus but are a new pardigrim in the industry, being much larger, taller, and at the same time more effecient than anything we've seen before. Basically it's taking where the midsize segment has been slowly headed in the last few years (bigger, blander, more luxurious) and taking it to its logical end. For the price it's very hard to imagine how a top-trim Camrey or Accord could compete with the larger, more capable, more refined 500 for a similar price - especially considering how manageable the outside dimensions are and how effeceint it will be with a CVT or 6-speed auto.

The Futura will do almost the complete opposit. It's style (from people inside the development loop) is said to be as progressive as the original Taurus was in its day. The mechanicals, similarily, push the envelope in all respects: AWD, industry-leading 4-cylinders, 6-cylinders (3.0 and 3.5), the possibility of diesel power if that's where the market heads, and a new Ford developed hybrid powertrain (that's said to be power rather than economy biased). The fact that it's developed on the Mazda6 platform would also indicate that it will be a very sporting ride, with a 300hp version in the works and manual transmissions offered over the whole range.

One very important aspect of the Futura (and 500 to a lesser extent) that's often overlooked is the fact that it will be AWD, which means that nobody for the forseeable future will be able to touch Ford in terms of the horsepower race (any more horsepower and the FWD Maxima/Altima/Accord/etc. will be undriveable).

...It's incredible how short-sighted the market can be, as if a company is only worth it's latest quarters sales numbers. It's still a gamble at this point but if I had any money I'd consider buying Ford stock now while everyone seems to be negative on it.
i can't help but wondering how hard it'll be for ford to grab back any customers they loose up until these new models are out. for every die-hard, brand-happy customer there's a fickle one, and if they jump from a current ford to something else, i wonder if the new fords will be enough to pull them back. then again if they're fickle, they might very well be impressed with what ford is releasing in the future and jump back.

i find it odd that cavalier and sunfire and grand am sales are up (yes, two months of a year is only am tiny snapshot), even though these models are on their way out. same with the impala... it's far from fresh but still moving. some might question the use of incentives to keep market share, but GM is building better cars these days, and if they can get a taurus owner into an impala and impress them, they might very well keep them in the GM fold.

just guessing at all this... i think it's interesting stuff! i guess the difference with ford is that most of their car lineup is stale right now, whereas most companies try to stagger new introductions. ford's year of the car hasn't started just yet!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
Cav'/Sunfire sales are definately due to their being about the cheapest cars on the market with massive incentives. I can't figure out why GM pushes them so hard since last I heard they lost money on every one. Probably to keep up marketshare.

The Impala is more a case of nothing else being in that size segment for the price, which will change when the (infintitely better) 500 is out. For the Impala to have any hope of remaining profitable (probably one of GMs few money making cars) it needs a new interior at least.

And yes it was definately a tactical mistake on Ford's part to let all their cars go stale at the same time (although the Focus and Taurus have aged incredibly well). VW made the same mistake and are also suffering the sales consequences. OTOH they have an opportunity to present their all-new lineup as a break from what came before.

And in todays market I don't think they'll have trouble winning back customers with superior cars. Nissan's done a very good job of it and their new vehicles aren't even that nice. GM will certainly be the first to lose (profitable) marketshare I would think since they don't seem to care they don't have truely competative cars in any mainstream segment (all they seem to care about anymore is Cadi' and wacky one-off niche vehicles - Lutz will be the death of GM IMHO).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,621 Posts
Originally posted by stewacide@Mar 4 2004, 03:55 PM
Cav'/Sunfire sales are definately due to their being about the cheapest cars on the market with massive incentives. I can't figure out why GM pushes them so hard since last I heard they lost money on every one. Probably to keep up marketshare.

The Impala is more a case of nothing else being in that size segment for the price, which will change when the (infintitely better) 500 is out. For the Impala to have any hope of remaining profitable (probably one of GMs few money making cars) it needs a new interior at least.

And yes it was definately a tactical mistake on Ford's part to let all their cars go stale at the same time (although the Focus and Taurus have aged incredibly well). VW made the same mistake and are also suffering the sales consequences. OTOH they have an opportunity to present their all-new lineup as a break from what came before.

And in todays market I don't think they'll have trouble winning back customers with superior cars. Nissan's done a very good job of it and their new vehicles aren't even that nice. GM will certainly be the first to lose (profitable) marketshare I would think since they don't seem to care they don't have truely competative cars in any mainstream segment (all they seem to care about anymore is Cadi' and wacky one-off niche vehicles - Lutz will be the death of GM IMHO).
i hear most of your points, but i personally think GM is VERY concerned with the mainstream market... witness the grand prix, malibu & maxx, colorado/canyon, equinox, lacrosse, cobalt, G6, pursuit (canada), and to a lesser degree their daewoo babies... all meant to compete in pretty large markets. i think they're well covered in the big markets, and while ford may have a leg up with their upcoming AWD vehicles, i think GM is otherwise well covered. cadillac is very important, too, not just a novelty, and the niche cars appear to be very well executed... GM'll do very well with them along with their mainstream models. i don't see anything 'wacky' about a $25,000 roadster (i have no idea what solstice will cost... just a guess)... ford customers don't have any options there. overall it's a more exciting and well rounded portfolio than ford will have. i'll be the first to concede if ford succeeds... but i'm not ready to do that just yet!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
579 Posts
The new Grand Prix, Malibu, LaCrosse, G6, etc. are half-hearted efforts hobbled by either old platforms or old engines. Also none of their interiors are up to current standards (perhapse the LaCrosse but all I've seen are pictures, and I doubt the materials are other than GM sub-par). Lets not mention the Aveo...

The Cobolt might turn out to be a real competitor but it has the handicap of really boring looks, which perhapse wasn't the best way to go with their first serious compact entry in a long time. The first gen' Focus had to win buyers over with its innovative style and looks, and is only now established enough to slip into Civic/Carolla blandness (sad but true).

For a company of GMs size and marketshare it's incredible to the degree which they don't figure in the top-selling vehicle lists. Besides the (badly ageing) Silverado, (outclassed) Impala, and (incentive driven) Cavalier, you have to go a long ways down the charts untill you start running into many of their vehicles. GMs mainstream midsize sedan the Malibu, for instance, is outsold in the US by the Nissan Altima!!! (just one of TWO Nissan mainstream FWD midsizes in fact). That's absolutely pathetic for what should be their best selling car (see: Camrey, Accord, Taurus).

In fact I can't off the top of my head think of any segment in which GM has either the best seller or the widely recognized best vehicle in a segment where there is competiton - Impala, Corvette, etc. don't have real competitors at their price and performance points. Ford has all the best selling pickups and SUVs, while Toyota and Honda have all the best selling cars.

Edit -- it just came to me that perhapse the XLR could make a claim to being best in class, but it's in a very competative segment so you'll never get a concensus there. The CTS is also a great car for GM but again it's in a class of its own (5-series size at 3-series price with a high-displacement v6). The 9-3 is competative as well but it can't really compete with the AWD Volvos and Audis, and RWD BMWs and Mercs', etc., especially not having anything over an i4.

...if you can think of something tell me...


As for the Solstice it is nice, but perhapse you've heard of the Mazda Miata? Best selling sports car of all time? Widely aclaimed as the most enjoyable driver ever made for any price? The car responsible for the revival of the mass-market sports car when it was all but dead?

Few problems with GM they need to address:

- Instead putting the time, effort, and cash into developing a few incredibly capable and versitile platforms on which they can base all their cars they develop a whole slew of low-content platforms that spin off only one car and a few barely disguised clones. Something like Epsilon, for example, really suffers not having AWD built into it from the start, although it's a decent first try at a global platform. Their numerous small and large car platforms are even more confused and lacking in versatility.

- GM has a very nice i4 family in the Ecotec, but they've never developed an affordable, high quality, high-displacement DOHC v6 - something they NEED to be competative in the North American midsize sedan market. Putting trashy decade-old OHV units in the otherwise very modern Epsilon cars for instance is a travesty. I can't count the times they've tried and failed to build a v6 to match Toyota/Honda/Ford (the cut-down Cadi' ShortStars, the converted OHV blocks, the Opel/Saturn/Saab units, etc.). The fact that they have to borrow an engine from Honda for the Redline Vu is a disgrace - they've had well over a decade now to do one of their own!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
23,621 Posts
Originally posted by stewacide@Mar 4 2004, 06:34 PM
The new Grand Prix, Malibu, LaCrosse, G6, etc. are half-hearted efforts hobbled by either old platforms or old engines. Also none of their interiors are up to current standards (perhapse the LaCrosse but all I've seen are pictures, and I doubt the materials are other than GM sub-par). Lets not mention the Aveo...

The Cobolt might turn out to be a real competitor but it has the handicap of really boring looks, which perhapse wasn't the best way to go with their first serious compact entry in a long time. The first gen' Focus had to win buyers over with its innovative style and looks, and is only now established enough to slip into Civic/Carolla blandness (sad but true).

For a company of GMs size and marketshare it's incredible to the degree which they don't figure in the top-selling vehicle lists. Besides the (badly ageing) Silverado, (outclassed) Impala, and (incentive driven) Cavalier, you have to go a long ways down the charts untill you start running into many of their vehicles. GMs mainstream midsize sedan the Malibu, for instance, is outsold in the US by the Nissan Altima!!! (just one of TWO Nissan mainstream FWD midsizes in fact). That's absolutely pathetic for what should be their best selling car (see: Camrey, Accord, Taurus).

In fact I can't off the top of my head think of any segment in which GM has either the best seller or the widely recognized best vehicle in a segment where there is competiton - Impala, Corvette, etc. don't have real competitors at their price and performance points. Ford has all the best selling pickups and SUVs, while Toyota and Honda have all the best selling cars.

Edit -- it just came to me that perhapse the XLR could make a claim to being best in class, but it's in a very competative segment so you'll never get a concensus there. The CTS is also a great car for GM but again it's in a class of its own (5-series size at 3-series price with a high-displacement v6). The 9-3 is competative as well but it can't really compete with the AWD Volvos and Audis, and RWD BMWs and Mercs', etc., especially not having anything over an i4.

...if you can think of something tell me...


As for the Solstice it is nice, but perhapse you've heard of the Mazda Miata? Best selling sports car of all time? Widely aclaimed as the most enjoyable driver ever made for any price? The car responsible for the revival of the mass-market sports car when it was all but dead?

Few problems with GM they need to address:

- Instead putting the time, effort, and cash into developing a few incredibly capable and versitile platforms on which they can base all their cars they develop a whole slew of low-content platforms that spin off only one car and a few barely disguised clones. Something like Epsilon, for example, really suffers not having AWD built into it from the start, although it's a decent first try at a global platform. Their numerous small and large car platforms are even more confused and lacking in versatility.

- GM has a very nice i4 family in the Ecotec, but they've never developed an affordable, high quality, high-displacement DOHC v6 - something they NEED to be competative in the North American midsize sedan market. Putting trashy decade-old OHV units in the otherwise very modern Epsilon cars for instance is a travesty. I can't count the times they've tried and failed to build a v6 to match Toyota/Honda/Ford (the cut-down Cadi' ShortStars, the converted OHV blocks, the Opel/Saturn/Saab units, etc.). The fact that they have to borrow an engine from Honda for the Redline Vu is a disgrace - they've had well over a decade now to do one of their own!!!
hmmm... again, you make good points, but not sure i follow all of them. i don't have numbers, but one thread pointed out that employees have been added to the malibu plant to increase input to meet demand. doesn't sound like a vehicle hobbled in any way. i don't believe there are huge incentives on them right now either. these cars might not impress enthusiasts, but enthusiasts don't drive the sedan market. i'm sure most of the people that have bought malibus couldn't tell you anything about their engine or platform, other than the fact that it's a V6. and interiors? i dunno... that's pretty subjective... assuming the quality is there i don't think they'll deter as many people as you think. the malibu may not be outright gorgeous, but i think the look is distinct, and it's obviously getting noticed.

i think chevrolet was right to style the cobalt as they did. sits alongside a mazda3, civic and corolla quite nicely... they weren't aiming for 'shock-me'. focus was a fluke... no car that's that poorly built (especially when compared to the decent ratings it got in europe) deserves to do as well as it did. i don't think ford can bank on another success like the focus... i sure don't think people'll be fooled twice. focus still baffles me... how lucky was ford those dozen or so recalls didn't get the press GM does!

i'll believe your rankings... perhaps GM does sit way too low on the sales chart... but GM's newer models all seem to be doing well, including the grand prix (hobbled with it's 'old platform and old engines'). and you mention impala and corvette don't have competitors at their price points... amen! apparently there's a market for these vehicles... and no one else is in them... can't fault GM for that!

miata's fine (earlier i meant anyone wanting a ford doesn't have a choice)... but it's sat unchallenged since its introduction. i think GM has a wonderful vehicle in the solstice. i don't think it's just a silly inconsequential halo car... it represents a new way GM will design and build cars.

i don't see that ford has a massive advantage over GM at this point or in the next year or two... or beyond, for that matter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,882 Posts
Originally posted by stewacide@Mar 4 2004, 06:34 PM


- Instead putting the time, effort, and cash into developing a few incredibly capable and versitile platforms on which they can base all their cars they develop a whole slew of low-content platforms that spin off only one car and a few barely disguised clones. Something like Epsilon, for example, really suffers not having AWD built into it from the start, although it's a decent first try at a global platform. Their numerous small and large car platforms are even more confused and lacking in versatility.

- GM has a very nice i4 family in the Ecotec, but they've never developed an affordable, high quality, high-displacement DOHC v6 - something they NEED to be competative in the North American midsize sedan market. Putting trashy decade-old OHV units in the otherwise very modern Epsilon cars for instance is a travesty. I can't count the times they've tried and failed to build a v6 to match Toyota/Honda/Ford (the cut-down Cadi' ShortStars, the converted OHV blocks, the Opel/Saturn/Saab units, etc.). The fact that they have to borrow an engine from Honda for the Redline Vu is a disgrace - they've had well over a decade now to do one of their own!!!
I really don't think it's in GM's best interest to develop a bunch of low-ball platforms instead of a few incredibly capable ones. They've moved down market enough accidentally. They don't need to make it an engineering stategy.

As for the V6, they have developed an affordable, high quality, high-displacement DOHC v6 - the new High-Feature 3.6L DOHC found in the CTS and the Rendezvous so far, and the LaCrosse next. This engine will spawn a couple more displacements, down to a 2.8L.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top