[BlackGTP]

I don't fault GM for not doing it but... I wish they would. I get it, the Ford Family wants their easy money. Can't blame them for that.

I'd rather see GM plow that money back into operations right now.

Good for Ford - impressive metrics over last year. Though I do find GM's additional billion in profit over Ford ($1.7B in Q2 profits, $4.6B YTD) to be be better vs. Fords $.7B Q2 profit ($2.4B loss YTD). Though Ford did have a $2.4B hit in Q2 to adjust for their Rivian stock losses, so pretty good results without that.

I'm sure the IC division of Ford, which probably contributed much of these profits, are cheering the results: Ford CEO Farley Says Automaker ‘Absolutely Has Too Many People’ (msn.com)

 

[BlackGTP]

I hate being Nit Picky, but wouldn't Mary's Massive Salary also do so much more for R+D in this time of Change?

I get that Ford's Stock is different than Most, as the Ford Family owns a Majority of Voting Shares, however, The Ford Family also has the Most Invested in the Company. From right back in a Garage in the 1800's.

Mary, ye did work her way up from the Engineering Floor, but I truly believe in Merital Wage compensation, and so far, Mary is Smoke and Mirrors and Promises. She will be Retired before those Promises see the Light of Day, if they ever do.

Well, so would all the union workers salaries too. And, without looking up her pay package, I believe it is around $20MM to $25MM, a drop in the bucket for R&D. And I believe some of that $20MM is stock, so not all of that is cash.

She's worth every penny of her salary.

Mary "smoke and mirrors" has given GM stellar results during her tenure. And where will you be next quarter if it turns out GM was hoarding chips for better production runs in Q3 and they push out some strong results as has happened in the past with GM and many other makes?

 

[BlackGTP]

This will be interesting to see come 2023!


ICE vehicles sold in North America alone (Ford's BEV are break even at best) accounted for 90% of Ford's companywide Q2 2022 adjusted EBIT:

View attachment 66914
View attachment 66915

I understand his comment about cutting heads, but what a way to demoralize the people making the vehicles which generate your profits!

I hope MB handles GM's situation with more tact. No matter what, heads will be lost, but it's how it is handled..

 

[BlackGTP]

Stellantis posts record first half profit margin ahead of EV reveals

Stellantis posts record first half profit margin ahead of EV reveals

High vehicle transaction prices drove a record 14.1% adjusted operating income margin, up from 11.4%.

www.detroitnews.com

Stellantis NV posted record financial results globally and in North America in the first half of the year, setting up the remainder of 2022 when the automaker, in its second year of existence, will share more details on the electric vehicles it will sell in North America under the Dodge, Jeep and Ram brands.

Stellantis year-over-year had declining sales from a global microchip shortage and other parts crunches. But high vehicle transaction prices drove a $8.2 billion (8 billion euro) net profit, up 34% year-over-year, on $90 billion revenue (88 billion euro), a 17% increase. A $12.7 billion (12.4 billion euro) adjusted operating income represented a record 14.1% group-wide margin compared to 11.4% a year ago.

So Ford Topped Estimates, Stellantis Posts Record, and GM falls short. But MB is worth every cent of pay?

Mary started with a Clean Sheet Company "New GM" and where has it gone? She promises to Lead the EV World, but when? I just don't see her Magic, I am sorry. Promises aren't Product.

Ford for example are basically 2 years into the Mach E, 1 Year into the Lightning/Transit BEV, longer in the Escape HEV, and only now at the Break Even point, yet GM is Leading and will be profitable with the Hummer EV?

Should MB's worth be set by one quarter? And again, what happens next quarter if we find out GM was hoarding their chips and has a blockbuster Q3? Will you be rallying for her to have a raise?

 

[BlackGTP]

GM CEO Mary Barra is again Detroit's highest-paid auto executive. See how much she made

Barra's pay increased from her 2020 compensation of $23.7 million.

www.detroitnews.com

Crazy Number for All involved but Mary's statement last year.




What are the "Goals"? 27907 Bolts in 2021(0 in the last quarter and only 1200 more than 2020 model year) and 1 Hummer EV.

Aren't you judging a little early? The first Ultium isn't even 98% on line yet. Not sure what you expect - you need a plant to produce batteries and so far everything is going to plan that they laid out many years ago.

Yes, Ford is ahead, but I'm fine with that as GM's approach is much more cohesive and Ford is 2 or so years out from something comparable. Frustrating right now, but once the product starts coming it'll be fine.

 

[BlackGTP]

And if you listen to Farley, he states that very clearly..............
Additionally, Ford is very-clear, they don't have a goal set to eliminate ICE production, unlike MB.



So not the way GM did it in their 2018/2019 "hair-cutting"?




But, wouldn't that be "just one quarter"? 😐

I'm sure those 8,000 people will be real glad that Ford hasn't publicly stated they are eliminating ICE by 2035.

2018.2019 - GM did it so I can do it too!

Quarter - you didn't take the meaning of my words correctly.

 

[BlackGTP]

So, you didn't listen to what Farley said, which means you didn't understand what I said... 'great'

The runaway inflation is changing the equation for all companies, you act like GM is immune? Did you forget about their Q2 earning report already?



Lets ignore for a moment that it was H1 (and not a quarter) but you were replying to this story:

Stellantis posts record first half profit margin ahead of EV reveals

And said this...



So what exactly did you mean?

This conversation will quickly devolve, so I'm stepping out.

 

[BlackGTP]

My question is: What happens when GM entire product line for the future is almost all EV................... and the buyers aren't there??

Same goes for every other make out there - just about all of them are hurtling towards the same destination. I'm certain the government won't let that happen, they'll keep throwing incentives at BEV...

 

[BlackGTP]

I just read in Canadian Auto Dealer that the Global Vehicle Market is returning to 2017 levels and should reach 2017 levels by 2024. They also show that the only market growing is EV. EV's accounting for basically 0 sales in 2017 and maybe 5% in 2020 (Globally).

Region	2020	2019	2018	2017	2016	2015	2014	2013
Europe (EU+UK+EFTA)	11,961,200	15,805,800	15,624,500	15,631,700	15,131,700	14,201,900	13,006,500	12,308,200
Russia*	1,598,800	1,759,500	1,800,600	1,595,700	1,425,800	1,601,200	2,491,400	2,777,400
USA*	14,450,800	16,965,200	17,215,200	17,134,700	17,465,000	17,386,300	16,435,300	15,531,600
Japan	3,810,000	4,301,100	4,391,200	4,386,400	4,146,500	4,215,900	4,699,600	4,562,300
Brazil*	1,954,800	2,665,600	2,475,400	2,176,000	1,988,600	2,480,500	3,333,400	3,579,900
India	2,435,100	2,962,100	3,394,700	3,229,100	2,966,600	2,772,700	2,570,500	2,554,000
China	19,790,000	21,045,000	23,256,300	24,171,400	23,693,400	20,047,200	18,368,900	16,303,700
*Light vehicles		–	–	–	–	–	–	–
Combined:	56,000,700	65,504,300	68,157,900	68,325,000	66,817,600	62,705,700	60,905,600	57,617,100

That is still over 55 MILLION ICE Vehicles by 2024, and less than 13 Million EV's. If GM is going to be 100% EV in the future, even though it is the "Growing Market" it is just a fraction of the overall Market, they have to bring their A Game, not just Promises, and they have to bring it Now. The Market won't get much bigger, and the ICE demand isn't going smaller

The problem with this trend is the availability wasn't there. Meaning no Ultium plants and VW, Ford, etc. equivalents - the sales were small because there wasn't much to buy, and most of what was there, excluding Tesla, was heavily leaning toward "science project" which appeals to a limited group. We won't really know until these mainstream products start hitting en masse.

 

[BlackGTP]

I'm sorry you didn't hear any of the Farley's interviews; him talking about Q2 earnings would have made this a lot more balanced and productive conversation.

Can you believe Ford raised the dividend 50%!?

I shouldn't respond to your snide assumptions (and your comment proved out my point) but here goes. The below is a transcript of his comments pertaining to this. Can you highlight the areas that will make these 8,000 people feel warm and fuzzy? Take out the corporate babble and all I see is 8k will lose their jobs. And, in the context of the entire meeting it is even worse - money hand over fist, huge dividend increase, but Joe Ice - we are letting you go.

I've been on the receiving end of similar statements. They demoralized the division when made and then when it happened it left the division I worked for traumatized. But it was worded as a great thing!!!!

Adam Jonas -- Morgan Stanley -- Analyst

Jim, the Bronco Raptor, so badass. I don't know if I put an order and now if I'll get it by the end of the decade, but maybe I'll try. Jim, this is one of the most positive Ford calls I can remember in a long, long time. Does Ford have too many people?

Jim Farley -- President and Chief Executive Officer

As I said in my comments, Adam, we absolutely have too many people in certain places, no doubt about it. And we have skills that don't work anymore. We -- and we have jobs that need to change. And we have lots of new work statements that we've never had before.

We are literally virtually -- we are reshaping our company, like every part of our company. And on our ICE business, we want to simplify it. We want to make sure the skills we have and the work statements we have are as lean as possible. We know our costs are not competitive at Ford.

But we are -- that's what I mean by we are not satisfied. But I just want to emphasize that in the past, at least in my career for 40 years, we kind of often and discriminately just taking the costs out. That's not what's happening at Ford now. This is a different kind of change where we're reshaping the company, reshaping skills, investing in new technologies and simplifying investments in others, i.e., spending less.

So -- and we have -- it's kind of the old adage. Yes, I think every company probably has too many people. I just -- we have to go do the workflows and decide how this works now going forward.

 

[BlackGTP]

Remember when Ford paid upwards of 40,000 employees to go away, people realised the inevitability of that situation just as they recognise that Ford Blue will need fewer engineers and salaried staff. Evolving designs and new vehicles form here on instead of all new ICE based vehicles means the landscape changes completely.

Unlike GM, Ford Blue has a plenty of hybrid and PHEVs to offer buyers which will keep their ICE business in the game much longer than GM’s all or nothing Ultium or ICE choice.

GM has a long history of jumping into tech before everyone or the tech is quite ready, like the CRT screens in the '80s. I do have fears GM has repeated that. It'll be a wild ride if they bet wrong.

But no matter what, as you said, the landscape will change a lot!

 

[BlackGTP]

...And hopefully it wont become a trend.

Hopefully this one quarter is a fluke. We've seen it over and over again with this chip shortage - up one quarter then down the next as the car manufacturers manage their results with chip supplies and efficient manufacturing. As a wise person once said to me "a sample of one is not a good sample".

 

[BlackGTP]

VW ID.4 has 153 Days Supply, Show me anything "Tesla" close to that Days Supply? Chop nearly 100 off of that number @ 53. VW has 153 days of ID.4 inventory?

In fact Tesla's Numbers are crazy amidst the Supply Chain issues at 254,000 in the 2nd Quarter. https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-q2-2022-production-deliveries/

Remembering VW is the Largest Manufacture, Tesla is a New Comer and EV only.

And VW may have simply missed the mark with what the market wants, right now it is still "a sample of one". There simply isn't enough data to see what the market is telling us yet.

 

[BlackGTP]

A Fad. A Statis Symbol, A Ticket to a Higher Society.

Has alot more to do with the trend than Practical Transportation IMO.

Nothing against Americans, however I live on a Border Town, it is a Main Access for Tourism Travel to Canada. I have watched for many years with amazement, American Travellers coming into Canada in Motorhomes towing Boats to fish our Lakes. There are many convos of 3-5 Identical Motorhomes towing Identical Boats, racing to be first in line. Sometimes there is 1 that has a 2' longer boat (same brand) with 50 extra HP Motor on the back. Why?

I think the auto industry was tricked by the Prius. I think the Prius was a fluke (right thing at the right time/political mood with the right styling at the right price) - instead of the great new hybrid tech being launched in a high end vehicle as tech normally is.

I think that led the industry to thinking they could penetrate pure electric that way too, but missed the cheap price tag of the Prius. I think the major makes would've been better off using their high end brands to launch BEV. Bolt should've been a stylish Cadillac and the Leaf an Infiniti and BMW never should've made that nerdy BEV vehicle. A $40k Bolt is a tough sell.

 

[BlackGTP]

Toyota Sales Are Going From Bad to Worse (msn.com)

Interesting that most makes are clinging to the second half of they year being a lot stronger - they must know chip supplies will be better soon.

 

[BlackGTP]

A compact hatchback that get 50-55 MPG?.... "tricked"?

One of the primary reasons for the decline in the Prius is all the other Hybrids that Toyota offers...

🤫

No, not talking about the decline of the Prius, I'm talking about the success of the Prius tricking other makes into thinking that was the right way to launch their more expensive green tech.

 

[BlackGTP]

Toyota was up a lot last year, (+44.5% in Q1/Q2 2021) because they were one of the few that had banked chips/components/inventory, with the continuation of supply-chain challenges, of course they are going to be down compared to the fist 1/2 of last year.

Yup - just looking at it at the angle that most of the auto makes continue to say things will improve this year even in light of many not doing well right now. We are "running out of 2022" to get more chips to increase sales volume.

 

[BlackGTP]

Has anyone else built an economical "Prius Fighter" that failed?

Honda did.

But, my point is, the success of the Prius led GM and the rest of the industry to try to emulate their approach. But the tech they were using was more expensive than the Prius hybrid tech and to me, and apparently the market, a $40k Prius equivalent doesn't light the masses on fire.

 

[BlackGTP]

Ford certainly wasn't tricked. It developed its own power-split hybrid powertrain, independent of Toyota, though Ford was proactive in avoiding patent lawsuits and thus obtained licenses from Toyota, in exchange for Toyota obtaining licenses on some of Ford's diesel and direct-injection spark ignition technologies.

Ford has been very successful with both the engineering and marketing aspects of its hybrid vehicles over the past 18 years. The main issue Ford faces today is that demand for its hybrids far exceeds production.

Ford used for all intents the same hybrid tech. And Ford never really went after that Prius crowd looking for that green styling statement. But that isn't my point - I'm talking about more advanced, expensive, hybrid tech - GM's Volt and earlier BEV (Bolt, Leaf) - all trying to attract that Prius crowd but failed with their $40k price tags. GM, Nissan and BMW, etc. tried making their hybrid tech for the masses but with $40k price tags. The tech they all used should've been launched in more expensive vehicles.

 

[BlackGTP]

Ya got a model name?

Which why I included the word "economical" in my question.....

And that highlights my point - you don't know what vehicle I'm talking about as it was/is a dud in the market.

Honda Insight, launched in 1999. They've kept with it but largely a failure in comparison to the Prius. This link has sales stats 11 Honda Insight Statistics You Should Know (Facts & Numbers) (motorandwheels.com)

Below are the first and second gen Insights.