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DETROIT - Ford Motor Co. will start selling its third hybrid vehicle, a mid-sized sedan, in 2007.

COO Jim Padilla revealed the timing of the sedan hybrid to Ford employees on April 22.

It was the first time Ford has talked about the arrival date of the hybrid version of the sedan formerly known as the Futura.

The hybrid sedan will arrive three years from now, Padilla told employees. The conventional version of the car, the first of several vehicles derived from the Mazda6, will will go on sale next year as a 2006 model.

Hybrids are powered by an electric motor and a gasoline or diesel engine. A large battery stores power for the electric motor.

Hybrids burn less fuel than the equivalent vehicle powered only by an internal combustion engine.

Three hybrids are on sale in the United States: the Toyota Prius, the Honda Civic Hybrid and the Honda Insight.

Full Story HERE
 

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GM could release a CDI 1.9 150hp diesel regular or hybred and blow away their competition.

that low emission diesel is the cats arse.

Jeff
 

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Originally posted by chadbarb99@May 4 2004, 03:46 AM
Sounds like GM better get working on a hybrid Malibu or G6 to compete with Ford
Just because its available doesn't mean that people will shell out the additional money for it. I think GM should be able to respond quickly after they see how big the demand is. If they end up representing only 1-2% of sales, that's hard to justify the cost of assembly in the plants.
 

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Originally posted by monkeylizard+May 4 2004, 12:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (monkeylizard @ May 4 2004, 12:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-chadbarb99@May 4 2004, 03:46 AM
Sounds like GM better get working on a hybrid Malibu or G6 to compete with Ford
Just because its available doesn't mean that people will shell out the additional money for it. I think GM should be able to respond quickly after they see how big the demand is. If they end up representing only 1-2% of sales, that's hard to justify the cost of assembly in the plants. [/b][/quote]
prius and insight are doing well... GM'd be foolish to 'wait and see'. GM is supposed to be a leader... they shouldn't sit on the sidelines and wait and see what happens. that'll put them years behind, if they aren't already. changes are necessary... sticking to current gasoline engines won't work forever... some more efficient, alternative-engined vehicles are necessary. respond quickly? how quickly can a company the size of GM respond? it'll be 3 years from concept to production of the solstice... and while the platform is new, it's nothing too out-of-the-box for GM. a new type of engine such as a hybrid? imagine the lead time on that! and while they're already well into it (the full-size hybrids are out), they can't wait until prius sales hit 500,000 a year before they decide to do something.
 

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A lot of people here like to talk about the benefits of a hybrid and say GM should produce more of them. But, I ask, how many here either own a hybrid or would have paid an additional $2000 for their last vehicle purchase for it to have been a hybrid? It's easy to say "Produce them" but if their isn't enough of a demand to produce them profitably, what's the point. The price of gas still is not enough for the savings in fuel to justify the extra cost. Vehicles are expensive enough without adding a couple thousand dollars to the price tag.

Believe me, I support hybrids as much as anyone. But realistically, you can not financially justify the extra cost. Not to mention, the cost added costs of replacing the batteries and other expenses associated with this new technology. What's going to happen in a couple of years with these hybrid Toyota's and Honda's have been on the road for a while and start having problems that require very expensive repairs or battery replacements. Do you really think that the owner are going to think they made a good decision then.

I suppose these these expense won't really matter to to the movie stars who've bought them. They'll just buy another to claim to be "green" for good press. But to everyday people who do all they can just to afford a vehicle, this will be a real issue.
 

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Originally posted by monkeylizard@May 4 2004, 01:29 PM
A lot of people here like to talk about the benefits of a hybrid and say GM should produce more of them. But, I ask, how many here either own a hybrid or would have paid an additional $2000 for their last vehicle purchase for it to have been a hybrid? It's easy to say "Produce them" but if their isn't enough of a demand to produce them profitably, what's the point. The price of gas still is not enough for the savings in fuel to justify the extra cost. Vehicles are expensive enough without adding a couple thousand dollars to the price tag.

Believe me, I support hybrids as much as anyone. But realistically, you can not financially justify the extra cost. Not to mention, the cost added costs of replacing the batteries and other expenses associated with this new technology. What's going to happen in a couple of years with these hybrid Toyota's and Honda's have been on the road for a while and start having problems that require very expensive repairs or battery replacements. Do you really think that the owner are going to think they made a good decision then.

I suppose these these expense won't really matter to to the movie stars who've bought them. They'll just buy another to claim to be "green" for good press. But to everyday people who do all they can just to afford a vehicle, this will be a real issue.
((AMEN!))
 

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gotta start somewhere, sometime. the 2nd gen prius makes a whole bunch more power and is yet more fuel efficient than the 1st gen. right there they're providing a better value to the customer then before. and that's still at relatively low volumes. prius isn't significantly more expensive than a comparable sedan either (though it's DDDamn ugly!). gas might not be too out of reach yet, but it'll steadily climb from here on. it'll never drop again. when would more people make the switch? when the fuel cost over the life of their car adds up to the premium paid for a hybrid? as for reliability, perhaps battery life will be a problem... but every new technology has to be put to the test before it can be improved. hybrids might not be for everyone, but right now toyota and honda own the market. i sure hope GM has some serious plans in place to supplement their gasoline engines in the not so distant future, be it hybrid or fuel cell. and i don't mean a CLAIM that they'll have 1,000,000 fuel cell vehicles on the road by 2010. i wanna see the hardware!
 

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Don't bet on any significant number of fuel cells being on the road much before 2020, not 2010...no matter what GM tells you.

As for hybrids, there's more to them than great gas mileage. When somone finally shows the public a production car using the PERFORMANCE attributes of a hybrid powertrain, then you'll see the demand rise. What about a car with the 0-60 time of a Z28 and the gas mileage of a Civic? It's possible with a V6 hybrid system...including V8-like torque. Besides saving gas, it pollutes less. Sure, there's the question about the end-of-life of the batteries, but you have to see the whole picture....less gas wasted...less pollution...similar performance.
 

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Hybrids are a stop-gap measure, not the final solution. They still burn a fossil fuel, just less so than standard motors. There is little reason to buy a hybrid vehicle right now unless you're willing to accept that in 7-8 years, you will have to buy a new vehicle with no residual value on the hybrid (due to the battery issue, although this may be resolved by then... possibly). The fuel savings would not justify the extra cost for the most part unless you're doing strictly stop-and-go city driving, and quite a lot of it. On the highway, the gasoline engine is vastly more efficient.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of reducing gasoline usage, but hybrid vehicles just don't impress me. A properly driven Festiva or Colt is still more efficient and roomy than an Insight and pretty close to a Prius in MPG.

I still prefer the hyrdogen-powered internal combustion engine approach that BMW and Ford are taking. It allows those of us who hate the idea of noiseless engines to still have our rumbling V8s while leaving the door open for virtually quiet and very efficient 3- and 4-cylinder engines. And since hydrogen is so readily available, prices would eventually drop to the point where you could expect to spend about $200 a year on fuel for a daily-driver full-size pickup truck once the hydrogen fueling infrastructure is setup. The major oil refining companies would do well to embrace this technology quickly, because oil will run out eventually, and they could transition their gas stations to hydrogen gradually, allowing them to survive and even prosper from what would otherwise be a death knell for them.
 

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Hybrids definitely are a temporary, mid-step between internal combustion engines and fuel cells. But to say that a Colt or Festiva, while very economical themselves, are as efficient as a Prius (which, by the way, has much more interior space), is just wrong. A "properly driven Festiva or Colt" (or one of dozens of other good, economical small cars) would achieve fuel economy figures in the low 40mpg-range. A poorly driven Prius would get in the high 30s and properly drive would easily exceed the mileage of a Festiva or Colt.

But no matter...either choice is a HUGE step over 98% of the vehicles driven today.

One point not being mentioned is the emissions issue. Sure, nobody "pays" for emissions and gas mileage actually has an effect on your personal wallet, but it is a good point to bring up.

As much as I look forward to the day when I can fuel up with hydrogen, it's decades before hydrogen is priced competitively with gasoline. While hydrogen is plentiful, it does need to be separated from other materials (methanol, water, whatever). In order for an industry to grow up around this fuel, there will have to be more buyers than there are now. It's a whole Catch 22/chicken-and-the-egg thing....no fuel because of no vehicles and no vehicles because of no fuel.

We'll get there. Eventually, fuel cell vehicles (much more efficient than ICEs using hydrogen) will be commonplace. If you want the "rumbling" of an ICE, I'm sure it can be synthesized...to whatever makes you happiest. Driving in a funeral? Silence. Cruising the block? Dial up "1969 GTO." Why not?
 

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I love this!!!

"The sedan formerly known as the Futura"

Maybe Ford should call this new sedan an unpronounceable symbol like Prince did...LOL
 

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Originally posted by Hudson@May 4 2004, 05:26 PM
Don't bet on any significant number of fuel cells being on the road much before 2020, not 2010...no matter what GM tells you.

As for hybrids, there's more to them than great gas mileage. When somone finally shows the public a production car using the PERFORMANCE attributes of a hybrid powertrain, then  you'll see the demand rise. What about a car with the 0-60 time of a Z28 and the gas mileage of a Civic? It's possible with a V6 hybrid system...including V8-like torque. Besides saving gas, it pollutes less. Sure, there's the question about the end-of-life of the batteries, but you have to see the whole picture....less gas wasted...less pollution...similar performance.
Hudson is on to something here. This the approach I think Honda and Toyota will take with their upcoming hybrids. If rumors are true, we could see a hybrid Accord with a 270 hp V-6 achieve 30+ mpg. I think the rumor is ~35 mpg, but I really don't trust those numbers. Maybe Honda will be able to do it, maybe not. But this approach could give Honda and Toyota an even bigger advantage in gaining an even stronger positive perception in this country.

Look at Toyota. The upcoming Lexus RX400h is suppose to receive a 270 V-6 hybrid engine that should see (according to Lexus) 30 to 35 mpg - for an SUV! One of the Lexus websites states that there are waiting lists for the RX400h in California and other parts of the country. The cheaper Toyota Highlander coming out next year will have the same thing.

On top of this, I believe I saw a piece about Lexus wanting to give the LS430 a hybrid V-8 that had the power of a V-12 (~400 hp), but with the fuel economy of a V-6, or something like. I can't really remember. Maybe I had a dream about it, I don't know.

If true, what is GM's response? Why buy a gas guzzling suv when you can get the people mover with some added power and better fuel efficiency. At least Ford is on track and I think Ford is watching very carefully to see what Toyota and Honda have next. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I sense it is generally a good idea to see what these two engineering giants are doing from time to time. I believe they have a pretty good track record.
 

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Originally posted by stewacide+May 6 2004, 12:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (stewacide @ May 6 2004, 12:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hudson@May 5 2004, 07:07 PM
Like "Th!nk?"
Ford should have turned Th!nk into a smart rival. The name was just too clever to let die :krider: [/b][/quote]
So true!
 

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Does anyone know if the hybrid Accord (or next hybrid? RL?) will be full or mild hybrids? Honda seems to be falling behind with the mild Civic vs. the full Prius and Escape.
 

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The Civic is a hybrid just as the Prius is, they just have different ways of getting there. The GM truck system is a "mild hybrid" system where the electric motor has no direct connection to the drive wheels.

The Accord, like the Civic and the Insight, will be an IMA system (Integrated Motor Assist) which provides an extra boost of power when needed. The system seems to work well since it gets great gas mileage and acts as a "turbocharger" by giving an extra shot of power.

The Prius has the ability to run on electric-only mode, which is nice when you're tooling around town or stuck in traffic, but the IMA system uses a smaller (read: more efficient) engine for regular driving. There are benefits to both systems but neither is a "mild hybrid."
 

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Originally posted by stewacide@May 7 2004, 10:55 AM
Does anyone know if the hybrid Accord (or next hybrid? RL?) will be full or mild hybrids? Honda seems to be falling behind with the mild Civic vs. the full Prius and Escape.
I think the Accord Hybrid is a full hybrid. But, I'm not very sure on that one... Anyone else know?
 
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