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Massive tariffs are not OK anywhere for any reason, as they harm consumers and expand government power. My home country (USA) should not only repeal the 25% tariffs on light trucks and cargo vans, but unilaterally eliminate any and all tariffs on imported goods.
It would be nice


Can't see it ever happening though
 

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Well, if everyone were playing by the same rules, I'd agree on letting the market decide. But most non-US manufacturers benefit from at least tax-payer-funded healthcare for the workers (while companies spend massive amounts on health coverage for US workers), if not more overt benefits like keeping their currencies low. You could argue about what the best ways to address the differences are but you can't really have a proper functioning market when the different players are on different footings.
You have to ask why does health care in the US cost so much before worrying about health coverage.
 

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You have to ask why does health care in the US cost so much before worrying about health coverage.
As I said, we can argue about how best to address the disparities but pretending the disparities don't exist is not the answer.
 

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You have to ask why does health care in the US cost so much before worrying about health coverage.

It costs so much because the USA system provides massive amounts of free health care to those that chose not to work and expect others to pay for their healthcare (and sometimes, their lifestyle). This includes illegal immigrants.

Medical provider networks are required by federal law to provide healthcare, although the recipient cannot pay for the care - and has no intention of paying. This increases the costs for the working and retired people, who have no say in the matter and must pay higher medical costs to subsidize others.

Think of all the welfare-breeders that have high numbers of children, with the taxpayers supporting all of their medical costs. There is no incintive to become educated and work, as the government ensures they can maintain their lifestyles - with free lifetime medical care (and numerous other benefits).
 

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It costs so much because the USA system provides massive amounts of free health care to those that chose not to work and expect others to pay for their healthcare (and sometimes, their lifestyle). This includes illegal immigrants.

Medical provider networks are required by federal law to provide healthcare, although the recipient cannot pay for the care - and has no intention of paying. This increases the costs for the working and retired people, who have no say in the matter and must pay higher medical costs to subsidize others.

Think of all the welfare-breeders that have high numbers of children, with the taxpayers supporting all of their medical costs. There is no incintive to become educated and work, as the government ensures they can maintain their lifestyles - with free lifetime medical care (and numerous other benefits).
That isnt unique to the U.S it happens everywhere

The real reason it's so expensive is the insurers are milking corporations and individuals with ever increasing premiums

basically the rich get richer
 

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The medical profession has the world by the balls. I'll pay anything to stay alive at they are more than happy to charge me handsomely for it!

Might as well let Ford into the medical party and use these vans as ambulances :D
 

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That isnt unique to the U.S it happens everywhere

The real reason it's so expensive is the insurers are milking corporations and individuals with ever increasing premiums

basically the rich get richer
Total health insurance industry profits of ~$25B, give or take, divided by the total US population is about $75 per person per year. That’s less than 1% of per-capita healthcare spending of $11k/year. So that’s not a huge factor. Even factoring any billing overheads etc., the adder is likely much smaller than the inefficiencies of state-run healthcare systems in many other countries.

The bigger issues, IMO, are cultural. Lawsuit-happy customers (increases liability insurance costs for healthcare providers, drives risk avoidance with all kinds of unnecessary testing, increased costs due to complex processes, increased wages for healthcare professionals), unrealistic expectations of end-of-life care, unhealthy lifestyles, obsession with brand-name medications, direct advertising of medications to consumers (who then demand it whether they need it or not) etc.

IMO, to the extent the insurance industry contributes to the problem, it’s through insurance plans that allow people to go to a specialist for any little thing (or nothing at all!) with minimal cost and inconvenience (so lots of people do).
 

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Might as well let Ford into the medical party and use these vans as ambulances :D
That should be easy to do, Europe already has Ford Transit Connect ambulance vehicles :D

 
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Im not singling you out in particular just saying i've read by some on this board that its not ok for massive tariffs to be imposed by other countries as that is protectionism and that the US doesnt do it

I've called that out as BS a few times and then this thread pops up confirming what I've always said

The US market "trucks" are the very definition of a closed market

It's GM's , Ford's and Ram's bread and butter and no one else's

There are competitors for these type of vehicles but they don't let them in or else they may lose that stronghold

Yeah you're right its ok for the US makers to do this

But I better not see anyone else critise any other country for protecting their market in the same way again as that would be hypocritical lol ;)
I take it that you never heard of Toyota or Nissan?
 

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Total health insurance industry profits of ~$25B, give or take, divided by the total US population is about $75 per person per year. That’s less than 1% of per-capita healthcare spending of $11k/year. So that’s not a huge factor. Even factoring any billing overheads etc., the adder is likely much smaller than the inefficiencies of state-run healthcare systems in many other countries.

The bigger issues, IMO, are cultural. Lawsuit-happy customers (increases liability insurance costs for healthcare providers, drives risk avoidance with all kinds of unnecessary testing, increased costs due to complex processes, increased wages for healthcare professionals), unrealistic expectations of end-of-life care, unhealthy lifestyles, obsession with brand-name medications, direct advertising of medications to consumers (who then demand it whether they need it or not) etc.

IMO, to the extent the insurance industry contributes to the problem, it’s through insurance plans that allow people to go to a specialist for any little thing (or nothing at all!) with minimal cost and inconvenience (so lots of people do).
Reported profits can be a little misleading. Many hospitals are "not for profit", the doctors/executives simply get any excess cash as pay. Bingo - no profits. Virtually impossible to get at what this number is though.
 

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Reported profits can be a little misleading. Many hospitals are "not for profit", the doctors/executives simply get any excess cash as pay. Bingo - no profits. Virtually impossible to get at what this number is though.
Good point. Still, I would guess the overhead of the insurance industry is less than 10% of overall healthcare costs. While that's a sizable chunk, it doesn't (by itself) explain the 200% higher healthcare costs per capita in the US over other similar countries.
 
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Good point. Still, I would guess the overhead of the insurance industry is less than 10% of overall healthcare costs. While that's a sizable chunk, it doesn't (by itself) explain the 200% higher healthcare costs per capita in the US over other similar countries.
You spoke of the litigious nature of many as a contributor I think that may be a large % of teh problem
 

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You spoke of the litigious nature of many as a contributor I think that may be a large % of teh problem
Seriously, your average American pays far Less tax than we do in Australia
and on top of that we pay 1.75% Medicare levy and also expected to have
private medical insurance (we do get a 30% deduction from govco) so it’s
not an apples to apples comparison by any stretch of the imagination.
 

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Seriously, your average American pays far Less tax than we do in Australia
and on top of that we pay 1.75% Medicare levy and also expected to have
private medical insurance (we do get a 30% deduction from govco) so it’s
not an apples to apples comparison by any stretch of the imagination.
Current Australian medicare levy is 2%. You only need health insurance if you earn over 90K pre tax.
 

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Good point. Still, I would guess the overhead of the insurance industry is less than 10% of overall healthcare costs. While that's a sizable chunk, it doesn't (by itself) explain the 200% higher healthcare costs per capita in the US over other similar countries.
I think it is a lot of factors - everyone in the industry, from doctors, nurses, researchers, middlemen, pharmacies all have their highly paid paws in it - it all adds up. Then, we have an out of shape country that requires a lot of medical attention to stay healthy-ish - everything from diabetes medication, cholesterol and weight related surgeries helping to grease the money machine. And the aforementioned fact that someone is paying for those giveaways to 2nd and 3rd world countries (us).

I bet getting the nation (1st world) into shape will cure a lot of our medical cost ills, but, even if people are offered $10k a year to go to the gym and watch their diet, I bet most still wouldn't do it.
 

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Seriously, your average American pays far Less tax than we do in Australia
and on top of that we pay 1.75% Medicare levy and also expected to have
private medical insurance (we do get a 30% deduction from govco) so it’s
not an apples to apples comparison by any stretch of the imagination.
When did this become about tax?

The issue is Health insurance/medicare

I'd rather that safety net knowing no matter how much I earn I can still be looked after and if I want private health I can still get it
 

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A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money.

Everett Dirksen
 

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The way our current law works is to rely on strict interpretation of the exact words in a legal document, or at least that seams how it works to me. I don't know how they'd do it, but they really need to start off with "this is the overall goal of the law" and then have a clause about following the spirit of the law in case the written words are either unclear and open to interpretation or don't even address a certain situation. Leave it up to a jury to decide when a company has truly violated the spirit.

To me, this Ford example is a clear-cut case of violating the spirit of the law - to not import foreign trucks. They skated by with technicalities.
Mercedes shipped half assembled Sprinter vans in and finished them here to avoid the "chicken" tax.
 

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When did this become about tax?

The issue is Health insurance/medicare

I'd rather that safety net knowing no matter how much I earn I can still be looked after and if I want private health I can still get it
It became about tax because governments have to get the money from somewhere to provide "Free" healthcare. If you look at tax rates in (for example) Canada and the UK you can see where that money comes from.
 
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