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OK, I know Hoosier Ron and myself debate this issue.


April 18, 2008
Across Globe, Empty Bellies Bring Rising Anger
By MARC LACEY
PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti —
Hunger bashed in the front gate of Haiti’s presidential palace. Hunger poured onto the streets, burning tires and taking on soldiers and the police. Hunger sent the country’s prime minister packing.

Haiti’s hunger, that burn in the belly that so many here feel, has become fiercer than ever in recent days as global food prices spiral out of reach, spiking as much as 45 percent since the end of 2006 and turning Haitian staples like beans, corn and rice into closely guarded treasures.

Saint Louis Meriska’s children ate two spoonfuls of rice apiece as their only meal recently and then went without any food the following day. His eyes downcast, his own stomach empty, the unemployed father said forlornly, “They look at me and say, ‘Papa, I’m hungry,’ and I have to look away. It’s humiliating and it makes you angry.”

That anger is palpable across the globe. The food crisis is not only being felt among the poor but is also eroding the gains of the working and middle classes, sowing volatile levels of discontent and putting new pressures on fragile governments.

In Cairo, the military is being put to work baking bread as rising food prices threaten to become the spark that ignites wider anger at a repressive government. In Burkina Faso and other parts of sub-Saharan Africa, food riots are breaking out as never before. In reasonably prosperous Malaysia, the ruling coalition was nearly ousted by voters who cited food and fuel price increases as their main concerns.

“It’s the worst crisis of its kind in more than 30 years,” said Jeffrey D. Sachs, the economist and special adviser to the United Nations secretary general, Ban Ki-moon. “It’s a big deal and it’s obviously threatening a lot of governments. There are a number of governments on the ropes, and I think there’s more political fallout to come.”

Indeed, as it roils developing nations, the spike in commodity prices — the biggest since the Nixon administration — has pitted the globe’s poorer south against the relatively wealthy north, adding to demands for reform of rich nations’ farm and environmental policies. But experts say there are few quick fixes to a crisis tied to so many factors, from strong demand for food from emerging economies like China’s to rising oil prices to the diversion of food resources to make biofuels.

<continued at link>
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/w...&ref=todayspaper&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9337
 

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Let's see... the people of North Korea are starving. The people of South Korea are not.

The people of Zimbabwe are starving. The people of Rhodesia were not.

The people of Ethiopia are starving. The people of Egypt are not.

The people of Venezuela are starving. The people of Brazil are not.

And now the people of Haiti are starving. The people of Burmuda are not.

Yes, no doubt about it, biofuels are creating food shortages. It could not have anything to do with politics.
 

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I know I should follow the example of the first post, and not inject any facts into the discussion, but I just cannot help myself.

Half-Baked Ideas

“The idea ethanol production is the driving factor behind high wheat prices is half-baked,” said Renewable Fuels Association President Bob Dinneen. “American farmers increased their wheat production in 2007 at a time of poor harvests and surging demand around the globe. To single out the American ethanol producer ignores the facts.”

Lynn Schurman, president-elect of the Retail Bakers of America, was one of the “Band of Bakers” who marched on Washington last week urging agriculture officials and members of congress to take action against rising wheat prices that are straining small bakeries.

She is quoted by Minneapolis media as saying, “Right now less acreage is going into wheat because more people are growing corn and providing corn for the ethanol market.”

That statement is patently false. In fact, farmers planted more than 60 million acres of wheat last year, up more than 3 million acres from 2006. According to the year-end crop production report from USDA’s National Agricultural Statistics Service, 2007 saw the highest number of wheat acres planted in the past four years.

The American Bakers Association is calling on Congress and the Bush administration to implement it’s Three Point Plan to “alleviate the commodity crisis,” one point of which is “Elimination of the ethanol import tariff and temporary waiving of ethanol production limits.” (What they actually mean here is waiving the yearly renewable fuel standard requirements for ethanol production.)

However, that action will do nothing to address the two major factors driving the wheat market today, which are the consecutive droughts in Australia, a leading wheat producer and exporter, and growing global demand. A recent article in the New York Times noted, “Now [wheat] prices have more than tripled, partly because of a drought in Australia and bad harvests elsewhere and also because of unslaked global demand for crackers, bread and noodles. In seven of the last eight years, world wheat consumption has outpaced production. Stockpiles are at their lowest point in decades.”
 

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Last March, oil was at $60 a barrel and corn was at $4 a bushel. Today, oil is at $102, and corn is at $5.25. So in the past 12 months, oil's price has increased 70% and corn's price has increased 31%.

The United States produced the following amount of corn:

2007 - 13,200,000,000 bushels
2006 - 10,500,000,000 bushels
2005 - 11,100,000,000 bushels

The United States produced the following amount of ethanol (in gallons):
2007 - 6,500,000,000 (est.)
2006 - 4,860,000,000
2005 - 3,900,000,000

Since a bushel of corn makes 2.7 gallons of ethanol, we can calculate that the ethanol industry used about the following amounts of corn:

2007 - 2,400,000,000
2006 - 1,800,000,000
2005 - 1,400,000,000

Finally, we subtract what the ethanol industry used from what American farmers produced to find out how much corn was available for food:

2007 - 10,800,000,000
2006 - 8,700,000,000
2005 - 9,700,000,000

So there you have it. Even after the ethanol industry takes its share, the American farmer is putting more corn on the kitchen table now that ever before. The only conclusion that you can reach is this: food prices are NOT going up because of a shortage of food corn (there is more food corn than ever). Rather, the price of food corn is going up because the price of oil has increased 70% in the last year, and farmers use a lot of fuel.
 

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Ron you've got to be kidding. You cite the president of the ethanol fuels lobbying group as some kind of 'evidence'?

It's like citing a neo-Nazi group as 'evidence' that the Holocaust was a myth.

That's ridiculous man.

BTW, the people of Venezuela are not starving.

And Egypt IS undergoing problems. Where do you think Cairo is?

I also have to ask, do you have anything to gain from ethanol?
 

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Ron you've got to be kidding. You cite the president of the ethanol fuels lobbying group as some kind of 'evidence'?

It's like citing a neo-Nazi group as 'evidence' that the Holocaust was a myth.

That's ridiculous man.

BTW, the people of Venezuela are not starving.

And Egypt IS undergoing problems. Where do you think Cairo is?

I also have to ask, do you have anything to gain from ethanol?
Money staying in America has no benefit.

Maybe exporting ethanol? No, that would suck.

Not having to pay a fleet of Navy ships in the Persian Gulf. No, there isn't any real cost associated with that...

Us being in 2 wars in the last 17 years for oil. Oh, it had to happen somewhere....

Creating homegrown corporations that pay taxes and hire American workers, scientist, etc. Hell, they would have gotten a job somewhere....
 

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Ron you've got to be kidding. You cite the president of the ethanol fuels lobbying group as some kind of 'evidence'?

It's like citing a neo-Nazi group as 'evidence' that the Holocaust was a myth.

That's ridiculous man.

BTW, the people of Venezuela are not starving.

And Egypt IS undergoing problems. Where do you think Cairo is?

I also have to ask, do you have anything to gain from ethanol?
I have nothing to gain from ethanol, other than my country's economic freedom. If you don't like what the president of the ethanol fuels lobby group says, then please show me where the facts are wrong. Like this:

Food Shortages in Venezuela
FOOD SHORTAGES IN VENEZUELA ALREADY BEGINNING AS SOCIALISM DESCENDS
Venezuelan troops seize food
 

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It has nothing to do with biofuels, all of this is actually due to higher oil prices. Higher oil prices are to blame, alternative fuels are the solution and not the cause.

That said, I still rather we not turn our food into fuel.
 

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Despite record prices, 3rd world farmers still can't compete against the efficiency of American agribusiness and 1st world farm subsidy programs.

Unfortunately the "breadbasket of the world" is not producing export crops or ethanol, they are predominately making cattle feed and high fructose corn syrup.

Subsidizing McDonalds and Coca-Cola and the entire junk food industry with taxpayer money doesn't make a lick of sense to me, especially when the farm industry is making record crops and profits. That money should be targetted towards social good - crackers for Australia or fuel production for the US. However good luck finding a politician with the corncob to take on the farm lobby.
 

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Sorry folks......I will beat the drum again... Hydrogen is the answer.... Plain and simple.

To expensive to produce? Then America GET OFF YOUR LAZY FAT A$$ and engineer a cheaper more effricent way.

Hydrogen atoms when free destroy the Ozone quickly? American, get off of your lazy A$$ and design a car,truck,whatever so this doesn't happen. Same for refueling

What about Hybrids?

What about them? There is only so much Lithium we can get to. (Most of THAT is in the countries we should LEAST be doing business with)

Hydrogen can be produced anywhere in the world, from water no less... No need for fossil fuels. GET ON IT!
 

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Whatever. It is still a moronic idea to burn food for fuel. Switch grass, algae, anything other than corn, in fact, I can get behind.
Even if we successfully find a way to use non-food plants for fuel, prices will still go up. Because no doubt the fuel business would be better than the food business, once everyone's car requires the biofuel. What happens then? I guess the farmers will just switch from producing food to producing weeds for fuel.

In other words crops require space to grow, space that we're running out of, and there already is so much deforestation going on to make room for farms, what would happen if demand for crops suddenly shoots up when everyone needs biofuels?
 

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How hilarious! Who cares what we use to make alternative fuels as long as it's safe and efficient? We can grow more corn than can be processed in a year for food AND fuel combined. Besides, how can you just call it a food? It's a grain. There's lot of them, too. Not all are eaten, and some haven't even been found to see if you could eat them. Simply stated, the silly "corn is food" argument could be used for anything someone wants to chew on. So is grass a food? It's edible...
 

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Even if we successfully find a way to use non-food plants for fuel, prices will still go up. Because no doubt the fuel business would be better than the food business, once everyone's car requires the biofuel. What happens then? I guess the farmers will just switch from producing food to producing weeds for fuel.

In other words crops require space to grow, space that we're running out of, and there already is so much deforestation going on to make room for farms, what would happen if demand for crops suddenly shoots up when everyone needs biofuels?
Biodiesel from algae requires very little space and it can be grown in the desert or next to a coal burning electric generation facility.

Cellulosic ethanol can be made from leftovers of paper mills or from crop waste that currently is discarded.
 

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Why not use Free 'Fuel'?

Link: http://projectcamelot.org/magnetic_motor.html

It has been there for a LONG time but you never 'see' anything about it now do you?

Gee...I wonder why. Is it because it is FREE ENERGY and then people's lives could be better then ever?

Or is it because it is a threat to the people that want to keep us spending and spending our hard earned money on 'their product'?

This little 7 minute video shows a very small device.
There are a lot bigger ones out there too.
Imagine a device like this that can recharge ANY battery source we have right now.
 

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The problem is some people believe that the amount of land we have limits production of corn, wheat and other grains. If we make fuel from it, we would have less room to grow food and that is totally false. Those poor countries are starving because their own production of food is way too inefficient. Give people food and they will eat today. Teach them how to make more food and they will eat tomorrow.

There is plenty of land out there that can be utilized to grow more crops to meet demand of both food needs and fuel needs. Some of you are just too narrow minded to see solutions. Those that point the finger at others and blame the problem on them instead of themselves aren't creating a solution. Those, and HoosierRon fits in here, that address the possibilities instead of who to blame will find the solutions. Choose your side. Rising fuel costs will create rising food costs.
 
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