[jpd80]

Much of the news about the 2015 F150 is the Aluminum body. It fits right in the discussion that some investors are worried and Fords profit margins will be lower on THIS product. I'm sure all the investors will feel better now that Extreem4x4 says you don't care. Nope, not one concern for all of us stock holders.

Investors would be even more concerned if Ford simply followed GM and Chrysler, HT steel is a short term solution
to reducing weight, all manufacturers will eventually go to Aluminum. It simply suited Ford to go Aluminum now
at the natural product cycle break point when so much machinery needs to be replaced anyway.

The full effect of the alloy F150 won't be realized until CAFE starts to tighten in the next few years,
it's real advantage is in raising the FE of those older heavier 4x4 examples that were back in 18-20 mpg,
improving those is just as good as introducing a 30 mpg example as an offset.

The price of Ford stock has very little to do with the day to day running of Ford , it's mostly speculative
and generally under values the stock, during the recovery phase Ford outperformed the predictions
quarter after quarter. The only thing holding back that confidence is the cost of 23 new vehicle launches.

 

[Jesda]

And that has what to do with this test of the F150?? Ford doesn't care what the stock market thinks. Never have and never will.

That is an absurd, baseless statement that is completely detached from reality.

 

[mchicha]

These new materials you keep talking about like nanosteel, I'll believe it when I see it... Nothing has been done with it yet and can't see much of it being used in the trucks in 2019. All talk right now at GM, and more like absolute fear what the new F-150 will do to the truck industry

How do you think Cadillac has been achieving its weight goals without going aluminum? Here. This is going to dissapoint a lot of people.

The New 2015 F150 XL Shortbed regular cab pick up (work truck)Engine: 3.5L V 6 has a gross vehicle weight (lbs): 6,450, published curb weight (lbs): 4,685, gross trailer weight braked (lbs): 6,100, payload allowance (lbs): 1,765, Manufacturer’s own, 3,016 and 3,765
Motortrend

The Equivalent 2015 Silvarado shortbed regular work truck with 4.3 liter motor Weights: gross vehicle weight (lbs): 6,900, published curb weight (lbs): 4,942, gross trailer weight braked (lbs): 5,900, payload allowance (lbs): 2,007, Manufacturer’s own, 3,266 and 5,443

motortrend

That is only 450 lbs advantage to Ford.

So you see Ford is giving up some payload capabilities to, etc etc, be as it may, this is not a clear win for Ford. Autoline.tv has already said GM trucks are more refined on the road safe for turning tightness, something GM can tighten..

At the end of the day, was it worth it? The market will decide that.

And that has what to do with this test of the F150?? Ford doesn't care what the stock market thinks. Never have and never will.

I mean, really?? Any article on the new F150 brings out the worst in many people. It is a great truck. The GM twins and Dodge trucks are great trucks also. Pick your flavor and pick your truck, you will not be wrong.

That is an absurd, baseless statement that is completely detached from reality.

See Jesda's response.. Ford better care since the F150 constitutes 30% of its entire north american volume and the trend is upward..

Quote from article:

Yet, investors keep showing signs of nervousness over the pickup truck gamble. After hitting a high of $17.84 in July, Ford's shares have steadily declined. After the earnings report, the shares were down 4.3 percent to $13.77 in midday trading.

The F-Series has been the best-selling vehicle in the U.S. for 30 years; changing its body from steel to aluminum could be a game-changer for the industry, but it could also hurt Ford's reputation — and profits — if the new material causes quality problems or doesn't meet buyers' expectations. Morgan Stanley analyst Adam Jonas estimates the F-Series accounts for 90 percent of Ford's global automotive profits.

Chief Financial Officer Bob Shanks acknowledged that in the short term, Ford won't be making the kinds of margins it usually sees on its pickups. The Dearborn and Kansas City plants won't be fully operational until the second quarter of 2015, he said, and margins historically improve over the life of the truck.

90%.. Ford is a risky ship.

 

[jpd80]

The New 2015 F150 XL Shortbed regular cab pick up (work truck)Engine: 3.5L V 6 [/B] has a gross vehicle weight (lbs): 6,450, published curb weight (lbs): 4,685, gross trailer weight braked (lbs): 6,100, payload allowance (lbs): 1,765, Manufacturer’s own, 3,016 and 3,765
Motortrend

The Equivalent 2015 Silvarado shortbed regular work truck with 4.3 liter motor Weights: gross vehicle weight (lbs): 6,900, published curb weight (lbs): 4,942, gross trailer weight braked (lbs): 5,900, payload allowance (lbs): 2,007, Manufacturer’s own, 3,266 and 5,443

motortrend

That is only 450 lbs advantage to Ford.

And regular cab makes up barely 10% of F150's sales volume.

Greater weight savings were achieved with Super Cab and Crew cab where 90% of sales occur
but the really cool part is how that 600 or 700 lb weight reductions brought the kerb weight
of F150's heaviest examples, the LWB 4x4s back from near 6,,000 lbs to 5,000 to 5,300 lbs.

The point being to group the fuel economy of all F150s much closer together in the 21 to 23 mpg
rather than 18 to 20 mpg - that is just as good as adding 28-30 mpg, maybe better because it allows
Ford to continue building those larger 4x4s with less fear of running foul of ever tightening CAFE limits.

Sure, Ford could have simply switched to a HT steel body and achieved similar weights as GM's new Silverado
but a lot of Dearborn's machinery was worn out and needed replacing anyway, so making the switch to Aluminum
at a natural product cycle break point was made more attainable, a HT body switch would have still required similar
equipment replacement, so the switch to Aluminum comes down to supply cost, Joe Hinrichs has said previously that
Ford has taken the cost of Aluminum out of the equation, so it's safe to assume that costs have been contained and
that an Aluminum body F150 costs no more to manufacture than a steel bodied one. F150 effectively leap frogged the HT step and that's bad news for GM and RAM because neither will be ready to switch for at least another four years....

 

[Al465]

These new materials you keep talking about like nanosteel, I'll believe it when I see it... Nothing has been done with it yet and can't see much of it being used in the trucks in 2019. All talk right now at GM, and more like absolute fear what the new F-150 will do to the truck industry

GM does not have absolute fear what the new F-150 will do to the industry, but is amused by it!

First of all, the Silverado at present does not weight much more than the aluminum Ford. Like "mchicha" says, GM has the know how to reduce weight w/o going crazy with aluminum.

I find it hard to believe when a comment is deemed negative by what is obviously a Ford lover, how they strike back with nonsense. I used the word "deemed" because it doesn't take much to make them irrational. My question is: what are they doing on a site called GMInsideNews?

 

[Al465]

I'm not sure where you are going with this as you are really talking in a circle.

As you mentioned thicker aluminum can be stronger than thinner steel and still save weight. Last generation GM trucks had skin thin enough that they were rippled straight out of the factory. Tensile strength good, stiffness bad.

You talk about specific modulus, which in other words is stiffness to weight ratio of a material, which again aluminum excels at vs steel. Aluminum can be stiffer than steel but not have as high of tensile strength. Again, consider why they don't use steel in airplane wings.

By your stretch of imagination none should ever fly either. Stuck in a composite/aluminum tube at 36,000 ft., ripping at around 500 MPH, powered by highly flammable fuel, showed into an engine that belches out exhaust so hot that it would melt down a tank, while "landing" at over a 100 miles per hour on a strip of asphalt. Progress can be scary I guess.

All you said here is put a spin on what I said. If this were a test, you would have fail badly.

 

[Extreme4x4]

I find it hard to believe when a comment is deemed negative by what is obviously a Ford lover, how they strike back with nonsense. I used the word "deemed" because it doesn't take much to make them irrational. My question is: what are they doing on a site called GMInsideNews?

Nick has said time and time again that this is not a GM fan website. This is a GM information website. There is a huge difference. If you want to spend time on a GM fan website, create your own. If you are a Camaro fan, might I suggest Camaro5.

Negative and positive comments about all brands are welcome on GMI as long as they do not border on the trolling side and do not demean others.

 

[mchicha]

And regular cab makes up barely 10% of F150's sales volume.

Greater weight savings were achieved with Super Cab and Crew cab where 90% of sales occur
but the really cool part is how that 600 or 700 lb weight reductions brought the kerb weight
of F150's heaviest examples, the LWB 4x4s back from near 6,,000 lbs to 5,000 to 5,300 lbs.

The point being to group the fuel economy of all F150s much closer together in the 21 to 23 mpg
rather than 18 to 20 mpg - that is just as good as adding 28-30 mpg, maybe better because it allows
Ford to continue building those larger 4x4s with less fear of running foul of ever tightening CAFE limits.

Sure, Ford could have simply switched to a HT steel body and achieved similar weights as GM's new Silverado
but a lot of Dearborn's machinery was worn out and needed replacing anyway, so making the switch to Aluminum
at a natural product cycle break point was made more attainable, a HT body switch would have still required similar
equipment replacement, so the switch to Aluminum comes down to supply cost, Joe Hinrichs has said previously that
Ford has taken the cost of Aluminum out of the equation, so it's safe to assume that costs have been contained and
that an Aluminum body F150 costs no more to manufacture than a steel bodied one. F150 effectively leap frogged the HT step and that's bad news for GM and RAM because neither will be ready to switch for at least another four years....

It actually gets worse them as you go higher up the trimsThe diffrence between base work trucks for Ford and GM (shortbed's) is only 450 lbs. It gets worse as things go higher

2015 Ford F-150 SuperCrew Platinum Long Bed Crew Cab Pickup
gross vehicle weight (lbs)- 7,350,
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2015/ford/f_150/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz3HBGuZD46

Vs.
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 High Country Long Bed Crew Cab Pickup
gross vehicle weight (lbs)- 7,100,
Read more: http://www.motort[/B]rend.com/cars/...m/cars/2015/chevrolet/silverado_1500/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz3HBH3vsn0

So you see, the whole weight loss is not all to Ford's advantage..

 

[Dequindre]

It actually gets worse them as you go higher up the trimsThe diffrence between base work trucks for Ford and GM (shortbed's) is only 450 lbs. It gets worse as things go higher

2015 Ford F-150 SuperCrew Platinum Long Bed Crew Cab Pickup
gross vehicle weight (lbs)- 7,350,
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2015/ford/f_150/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz3HBGuZD46

Vs.
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 High Country Long Bed Crew Cab Pickup
gross vehicle weight (lbs)- 7,100,
Read more: http://www.motort[/B]rend.com/cars/...m/cars/2015/chevrolet/silverado_1500/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz3HBH3vsn0

So you see, the whole weight loss is not all to Ford's advantage..

Are the features par for par?

 

[jpd80]

I think the weights quoted by MT are incorrect, Most of the 4x4 Crew cabs were up around 6,000lbs
but now those weights are closer to 5,300 lbs time will tell for certain.

 

[Ed753]

It actually gets worse them as you go higher up the trimsThe diffrence between base work trucks for Ford and GM (shortbed's) is only 450 lbs. It gets worse as things go higher

2015 Ford F-150 SuperCrew Platinum Long Bed Crew Cab Pickup
gross vehicle weight (lbs)- 7,350,
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2015/ford/f_150/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz3HBGuZD46

Vs.
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 High Country Long Bed Crew Cab Pickup
gross vehicle weight (lbs)- 7,100,
Read more: http://www.motort[/B]rend.com/cars/...m/cars/2015/chevrolet/silverado_1500/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz3HBH3vsn0

So you see, the whole weight loss is not all to Ford's advantage..

GROSS VEHICLE WEIGHT............................:think:

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:


As in total weight of truck and maximum cargo? We know the F150 is lighter than the GM's and in total if can roll down the road 250 heavier, its cargo capacity is significantly higher, no?

Curb weight does not equal Gross weight



Additionally, as jpd80 noted, MT has just got numbers thrown in there, compare a 2014 to 2015, weight, HP are listed as the same, we all know both to be untrue, so at this point I wouldn't take anything off that site to use for accurate reference.

 

[Al465]

These new materials you keep talking about like nanosteel, I'll believe it when I see it... Nothing has been done with it yet and can't see much of it being used in the trucks in 2019. All talk right now at GM, and more like absolute fear what the new F-150 will do to the truck industry

I wish you Ford fans would go on the Ford forums and spew your nonsense there instead of here. "absolute fear" makes me laugh.

 

[All Star]

And that has what to do with this test of the F150?? Ford doesn't care what the stock market thinks. Never have and never will.

This is completely asinine. The entire purpose of a public company is to provide maximum value to the shareholders...stock value is the perception of that value.

 

[rustywrench]

This is completely asinine. The entire purpose of a public company is to provide maximum value to the shareholders...stock value is the perception of that value.

Yep, I know. :doh:

 

[syr74]

This is completely asinine. The entire purpose of a public company is to provide maximum value to the shareholders...stock value is the perception of that value.

That is a bit too much on the blanket side of the statement equation, and her insinuation is not completely asinine although it could be said to reflect the opposite side of the above blanket statement. Ford does care, but the importance of their commonly traded stock reflecting the actual value of the company isn't anything like as much of an issue for them as it would be for a company like GM because the Ford shares that you can actually buy don't carry full voting rights with them and are thus, inherently, less valuable than stocks that do. It's a dual class stock structure that assures that the Class A stocks the public can buy are valued at something of a discount compared to the amount of equity in the company which each share actually represents. Of course, in contrast, the Class B stock that only the family owns would be worth enormously more and transact at a significant premium relative to the Class A stock were it to be sold......but you can't buy Class B stock because the family isn't selling so the value of the real value same isn't often discussed outside of the Glass House.

 

[stealthregal]

All you said here is put a spin on what I said. If this were a test, you would have fail badly.

No, he countered you assertions with some factual scientific principles and you go back to insults.

I am guessing by your silence on high strength steel insurance/body shop impacts that you have no knowledge on that subject. You keep throwing things out there and then shy away when you care asked for some facts to back up your allegations. I guess trying to out fans of other brands is too time consuming.

 

[stealthregal]

It actually gets worse them as you go higher up the trimsThe diffrence between base work trucks for Ford and GM (shortbed's) is only 450 lbs. It gets worse as things go higher

2015 Ford F-150 SuperCrew Platinum Long Bed Crew Cab Pickup
gross vehicle weight (lbs)- 7,350,
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2015/ford/f_150/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz3HBGuZD46

Vs.
2015 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 High Country Long Bed Crew Cab Pickup
gross vehicle weight (lbs)- 7,100,
Read more: http://www.motort[/B]rend.com/cars/...m/cars/2015/chevrolet/silverado_1500/specifications/exterior.html#ixzz3HBH3vsn0

So you see, the whole weight loss is not all to Ford's advantage..

Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Like others have pointed out, gross vehicle weight is not the same as curb weight.

Furthermore, what are the specific options on both trucks? Are they both optioned out the same for an apples to apples comparison?

 

[mchicha]

Do you have any clue what you are talking about? Like others have pointed out, gross vehicle weight is not the same as curb weight.

Furthermore, what are the specific options on both trucks? Are they both optioned out the same for an apples to apples comparison?

I stand corrected. I checked further by building on their respective sites comparable trucks and indeed, Chevrolets come in somewhere between 450 and 700 lbs heavier than Ford's

 

[jpd80]

I stand corrected. I checked further by building on their respective sites comparable trucks and indeed, Chevrolets come in somewhere between 450 and 700 lbs heavier than Ford's

In fairness, I would estimate that the GM trucks are around 350-400 lbs heavier than the equivalent 2015 F150
but the thrust of the weight reduction has been to allow both manufacturers to continue building the most popular
versions of their respective trucks without running foul of tightening CAFE rules. Ford simply began next gen cycle
ahead of GM who will no doubt benefit from Ford trailblazing the aluminum path and adding scales of economy.

I look forward to GM's 8-speed auto 6.2 combo and hope it adds the 5.3 V8 as well, that would reach a lot of buyers
and give GM even more mpg comfort.

 

[Al465]

Constant negativity in 3...2...1...

Check these links and form your opinions, of what will be the best lightweight materials in the future for the auto industries? Read what the experts think, not from bloggers who just have opinions.

http://fortune.com/2014/08/01/ford-aluminum-pickup-price/

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/31/steel-nanotechnology-can-reduce-the-weight-of-our-cars/

http://www.gizmag.com/nanosteel-lighter-cars-gm/23721/

http://nanosteelco.com/news-and-eve...ws-and-events/latest-headlines/aluminum-push-in-autos-tests-metal-of-nanosteel/