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European Automakers to Seek €40 Billion in Loans from EC
European automakers will approach to European Commission (EC) seeking €40 billion in loans (US$54 billion) to support their shift to lower GHG-emitting vehicles, according to Fiat CEO and former ACEA (European Automobile Manufacturers Association) president Sergio Marchionne, in interviews given to several financial newspapers at the Paris Motor Show.
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“We will approach the European Commission for a similar idea to [that of] the US: €40bn is a good number given the bigger size of the European industry. We need a level playing field,” Mr Marchionne said. The US loan has caused concern among German carmakers such as Volkswagen. They think it could discriminate against foreign manufacturers in the US.
I'm not even going to comment.
 

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€40bn is a good number given the bigger size of the European industry.
Yeah, sure. 100 different car manufacturers that sell 5000 cars apeice does not a larger
manufacturing base make.

Next they're going to try to say that it was good that any success the Iraq war has acheived is due to the pittance of British troops that showed up.

How does this guy walk through doorways with a head this big?
 

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This should be OK for GM though - Adam Opel was formed in 1862, Vauxhall in 1903 and SAAB in 1937. Should the fact they're owned by a US company detract from their European heritage?
 

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Next they're going to try to say that it was good that any success the Iraq war has acheived is due to the pittance of British troops that showed up.
Not a very intelligent comment - we should be relieved there is a nation out their prepared to stand by us given the questionable morals of the conflict (Especially since the UK has just finished repaying the loans given by us to fight WW2 - with friends like us, who needs enemies).
 

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Yeah, sure. 100 different car manufacturers that sell 5000 cars apeice does not a larger
manufacturing base make.
Ignorance is bliss: Volkswagon is now number 3 in the World, after GM and Toyota.PSA/Peugeot is 8th one above Chrysler;Fiat is 10th; Renault 11th.
If you combine the outputs of Nissan-Renault then the overall corporation would be ranked 3rd.
 

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Not a very intelligent comment - we should be relieved there is a nation out their prepared to stand by us given the questionable morals of the conflict (Especially since the UK has just finished repaying the loans given by us to fight WW2 - with friends like us, who needs enemies).
Yes, I was going to say that.
 

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Actually, the money is more than justified, given the CO2 reduction laws that have just been ratified in the EU.

So drastic are these new - and, frankly, stupid - laws, that such a figure seems on the low side.

Imagine how the US industry would react to a mandatory corporate fleet average of 120 grams of CO2 per kilometer? Because that's what is happening in Europe, my friends. Just ask our good and well-informed friend Bravada.

See, by the new EU standards, an automatic Chevrolet Aveo is classed as an eco-hooligan . . . a grossly-polluting gas-guzzler. Just think about that for a while.

Now the new CAFE standards don't sound that bad, really, do they?
 

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Remember the criticism by the European Automakers for the loan guarantees to the Big Three? Hypocrites! Go to Hell, Europe!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Actually, the money is more than justified, given the CO2 reduction laws that have just been ratified in the EU.

So drastic are these new - and, frankly, stupid - laws, that such a figure seems on the low side.

Imagine how the US industry would react to a mandatory corporate fleet average of 120 grams of CO2 per kilometer? Because that's what is happening in Europe, my friends. Just ask our good and well-informed friend Bravada.

See, by the new EU standards, an automatic Chevrolet Aveo is classed as an eco-hooligan . . . a grossly-polluting gas-guzzler. Just think about that for a while.

Now the new CAFE standards don't sound that bad, really, do they?
萬歲我們的領袖!
 

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Remember the criticism by the European Automakers for the loan guarantees to the Big Three? Hypocrites! Go to Hell, Europe!
Freedom fries, anybody?


If we can put aside the rampant Europhobia for a short spell, does anybody know for sure whether GM Europe and Ford of Europe would be eligible?

They are, after all, an established part of the European automotive world, and have been for getting on for a century. I can't see any reason why they shouldn't qualify.Saab and Volvo, of course, would be included, if so. If that is the case, where's the beef?

It was raised by somebody else here, but it is worth repeating - a strong European industry means less market share for the Japanese. You remember the Japanese, right? You know, the ones levelling the Midwest.
 

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Opel and Ford Europe are obviously eligible (BTW, IIRC they are among the founding members of ACEA, the European organization of automakers, nobody has a problem with them being "American"), FWIK, Toyota, Honda and Nissan are also in the coalition and I guess pretty much everybody selling cars in Europe, or at least building.

The legislation amounts to European CAFE in its absolute stupidity. It took Europe some 20 years to become so stupidly overregulated as the US is, but the EU won't let USA lead the way forever. This is absolutely stupid and pointless, as it 1) forces automakers to go out of their minds wondering what mix the buyers would choose and adjust accordingly 2) does not affect cars already in the market, private imports (i.e. of American cars - quite a big market) etc.

Of course the solution like the UK one, which taxes car OWNERS based on emissions is absolutely out of the question, this would too simply actually tackle the problem...

PS. I've checked with ACEA website - Toyota Motor Europe is now a member too, after some wrangling, and the now-Indian-owned JLR remain a member as well obviously.
 

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So it's okay for European automakers to ask for a loan, but it's not okay for US automakers? There's a two sided coin here.
 

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This would've never got through (before they negotiated lower CO2 limits instead), hadn't the Congress lead the way. It is amazing to see USA starting the wave of government interventionism!
 

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Volkswagen is on the right track. They are a German company and they should be asking the German government and/or the EU for assistance, not the American Federal Government.
 

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Volkswagen is on the right track. They are a German company and they should be asking the German government and/or the EU for assistance, not the American Federal Government.
VW will ask anyone for money. They're probably still going to try and get a loan from the US Government.
 

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The timing is not a conincidence. They're trying to get the EU to retaliate against the US market intervention.
 

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As long as Opel, Saab, Ford, etc. get theirs, great.
I don't think Toyota or Honda will qualify...
 

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OK

My comments picking on the British were out of line.

Besides, as everyone knows, Britain doesn't have a demonstrable presence in the automotive sector, so I can't imagine it's them pushing this legislation.

Besides, after the Austin Powers movies, I think we've picked on the British enough.

Now, on to the Japanese! (Just kidding. No, really, on to the Japanese!)

I think it's sad, and indicitive of the quasi-socialistic approach to modern government that they perpetuatite with this excessive legislation.

They dictate that vehicles have to emit a certain amount of pollution, have to be able to run head on into a carton of eggs without cracking one at 50 mph, etc,encouraging the automakers to seek government subsidy. The government, in it's infinite wisdom, will realize that by having these companies under their financial control, they have more power, encouraging them to pass further legislation.

-Ok, I'm turning off the doom and gloom express now.
 
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