[HoosierRon]

Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d

Here it is in a nutshell:

The 520d goes 0-62 in 8.3 seconds and got 41.9 mpg (U.S.).
The Prius goes 0-62 in 11 seconds and got 40 mpg (U.S.).

(The article uses Imperial gallons.)

Now imagine 6 months from now when the U.S. is in a recession and gas is over $4.00 a gallon. Cadillac will be introducing the 16 mpg CTS-v and G8 GTP and H3T and 450 hp Camaros and Corvettes that can go over 200 mph. Hello? The gilded age is over.

 

[Joevette]

they will also be introducing new hybrids, next gen BAS, new diesel motors, and the Volt not too soon after

 

[unkillsam]

Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d

Here it is in a nutshell:

The 520d goes 0-62 in 8.3 seconds and got 41.9 mpg (U.S.).
The Prius goes 0-62 in 11 seconds and got 40 mpg (U.S.).

(The article uses Imperial gallons.)

Now imagine 6 months from now when the U.S. is in a recession and gas is over $4.00 a gallon. Cadillac will be introducing the 16 mpg CTS-v and G8 GTP and H3T and 450 hp Camaros and Corvettes that can go over 200 mph. Hello? The gilded age is over.

And Toyota is introducing the Lexus LF-A. What's your point. Most manufacurers will be offering gas-guzzlers for years to come.

 

[genjy]

The Prius lost if you think the article above is an accurate assessment of fuel consumption.


The race/test was done on a mostly highway trip where the Prius would not have optimal fuel economy.

Likewise, the diesel 5-series would have lost if it were a city trip with lots of stop and go.

 

[goochman]

Not to mention Diesal is about $0.50 more a gallon here in the US - negates any highway mileage gain cost wise.

 

[AMERICA 123]

The Prius lost if you think the article above is an accurate assessment of fuel consumption.


The race/test was done on a mostly highway trip where the Prius would not have optimal fuel economy.

Likewise, the diesel 5-series would have lost if it were a city trip with lots of stop and go.

Did you even read the article ?

The official fuel consumption figure for the Prius – supplied by Toyota itself – is 65.7mpg in mixed motoring. That’s a claim not supported by many of the letter writers to The Sunday Times who say they get nearer to 50mpg.

To find out we set a challenge: to drive a Prius to Geneva using motorways and town driving. The direct route is 460 miles but we drove almost 100 miles further to give the Prius the advantage of running in urban conditions where its petrol-electric drivetrain comes into its own.
We took along a conventionally powered car – a diesel BMW executive saloon – for comparison and drove both cars an identical number of miles (545).

BMW 520d: driven by Nicholas Rufford
..... and it sips fuel. Combined fuel consumption is – officially – 55.4mpg and emissions are 136g/km, which puts it into tax band C. That’s respectable for its size,........
.........The 520d is not startlingly quick, but it will reach 62mph in 8.3sec....... .....Nonetheless, it cruised happily at the French autoroute limit (dry conditions) of 78mph towards the champagne region. As I did so, I noted with slight satisfaction that Jason <in the Prius> was having difficulty keeping up, so I cut my speed. Had I been really serious about saving fuel I could have also switched off the air-conditioning and the stereo but I was more concerned about making this a real-world test.
Stuck in rush-hour traffic in Reims, fuel consumption dropped to an average of about 40mpg – ............

............But you can’t argue with the end result.....

......The computer was telling me that, for the journey as a whole, I had averaged more than 50mpg. The test had taken us along just over 200 miles of autoroute, about 200 miles of B roads, including winding ascents and descents in Switzerland, and 100 miles of urban driving.............

Toyota Prius: driven by Jason Dawe
The Prius is not a car you can easily get excited about, at least on a purely visual basis.
<Worth noting>Toyota was obsessive about saving weight in the Prius; at just 2,921lb it is 573lb lighter than the BMW 520d, ....

Clever power and a light kerb weight stand the Prius in good stead but it’s the car’s incredibly low drag coefficient that may just tip the scales in my favour when it comes to long motorway stretches at higher speeds. As slippery as a campaign manager discussing political donations, the Prius should take less energy than the BMW to maintain a constant cruising speed.

No sooner had we left the offices of The Sunday Times in London than my eyes locked limpet-like on the trip computer readout that tells you how many mpg you are achieving. This was to become my obsession over the next 545 miles as I battled to nudge the Prius into performing somewhere close to Toyota’s claim of 65mpg-plus motoring.
By the time we reached the Channel tunnel the display revealed that I had averaged 55mpg. Hopefully things would improve on the long, uninterrupted roads in France. They didn’t – despite the fact that I didn’t use the air-conditioning and avoided turning on the stereo in an effort to conserve power.

To break the boredom of constantly looking at the trip computer I pressed the throttle into the carpet for a few seconds, but seeing the fuel consumption suddenly dip to less than 10mpg I backed off.

The next day it became clear my Prius did not like motorways, at least not at 75mph into a headwind. My trip meter informed me I was now averaging about 45mpg; the Prius was not going to make it to Geneva on just one tank.

I took the precaution of buying a 10-litre can and filling it with petrol. Sure enough, the dashboard soon informed me the fuel tank was empty, the petrol engine stopped and for two surreal miles I coasted along on battery power.

Coasting down the mountain into Geneva my Prius averaged 99.9mpg for a full 10 minutes. It was the highlight of my journey and improved my overall average fuel economy by a full 2mpg.

But it was not enough. For all my defensive driving, slippery bodywork and hybrid technology, my average fuel consumption was 48.1mpg. I’d lost to a Beemer and I was disappointed; I had never driven so slowly or carefully for so long in my life.

If the 520D had been driven with the same sacrifices and 'techniques' :lmao:for fuel economy the advantage would have been even larger - probably another 5-15% at the minimum. Also the same for higher load conditions.

Bottomline :

1.) A classic demonstration of diesels overwhelming superiority concerning Toyotas HSD .

2.) Also a classic demonstration of Electric vehicle Dysfunction Syndrome or EDS for short.

At least they got the name right.


Put this engine and others like it in the Saturn/Saab line up and watch what happens.

 

[F14CRAZY]

Thing is diesel is already over $4/gal here. Forget gasoline being $4

FAIL

 

[vsd]

Price of the Prius v 520d?

 

[baloo]

Price of the Prius v 520d?

20k vs. 27k pounds, but not really relevant since the BMW is in a different class.

 

[Michael_S]

20k vs. 27k pounds, but not really relevant since the BMW is in a different class.

Sure it's relevant. That's a 35% increase, and it's likely Toyota could have done quite a bit more with the Prius if they were going to price it that high. Or to put it another way, 7,000 British pounds can buy a ton of gasoline, even at European prices.

Prius/5-series (advantage)
Head room front: 39.1/39.1
Head room back: 37.1/38.1 (1 inch BMW)
Leg room front: 41.9/41.6 (0.3 inch Toyota)
Leg room back: 38.6/36.0 (2.6 inches Toyota)
Shoulder room front: 55.0/57.3 (2.3 inches BMW)
Shoulder room back: 52.9/57.1 (4.2 inches BMW)
Trunk space: 14.4/14 (0.4 cubic feet Toyota)
Cabin space: 96.2/99.0 (2.8 cubic feet BMW)

The 5-series is not substantially larger.

 

[baloo]

The Prius is nearly as roomy inside, but that's where the similarities end. The 5-series is 1.5ft longer, RWD, substantially more powerful and arguably more upscale. It's comparable to a Lexus GS, but not to a Prius.

 

[mbukukanyau]

Toyota Prius proves a gas guzzler in a race with the BMW 520d

Here it is in a nutshell:

The 520d goes 0-62 in 8.3 seconds and got 41.9 mpg (U.S.).
The Prius goes 0-62 in 11 seconds and got 40 mpg (U.S.).

(The article uses Imperial gallons.)

Now imagine 6 months from now when the U.S. is in a recession and gas is over $4.00 a gallon. Cadillac will be introducing the 16 mpg CTS-v and G8 GTP and H3T and 450 hp Camaros and Corvettes that can go over 200 mph. Hello? The gilded age is over.

They will also be bringing the beat and 1.4 Turbos, and they sell most corn burning vehicles in the country. Your favorite crop my friend.
A CTS V that burns corn is great if you ask me, though I doubt we will see one

 

[Mr. Burns]

Does anyone really use the 400hp in the cars that are coming? seriously most camaros, G8s, etc... will spend their time in traffic.

 

[AMERICA 123]

Sure it's relevant. That's a 35% increase, and it's likely Toyota could have done quite a bit more with the Prius if they were going to price it that high. Or to put it another way, 7,000 British pounds can buy a ton of gasoline, even at European prices.

Prius/5-series (advantage)
Head room front: 39.1/39.1
Head room back: 37.1/38.1 (1 inch BMW)
Leg room front: 41.9/41.6 (0.3 inch Toyota)
Leg room back: 38.6/36.0 (2.6 inches Toyota)
Shoulder room front: 55.0/57.3 (2.3 inches BMW)
Shoulder room back: 52.9/57.1 (4.2 inches BMW)
Trunk space: 14.4/14 (0.4 cubic feet Toyota)
Cabin space: 96.2/99.0 (2.8 cubic feet BMW)

The 5-series is not substantially larger.

The 5 series has a substantially larger frontal area and higher drag co efficient.

Also .... the Prius sales presentation of interior room .....does not not include none measured space OR measured space efficiency - both of which make a big difference - there is no comparison putting 4 people in a 5 series versus a Prius and driving a route like this.

It also fails to account for all the other 5 series pluses - things like active/passive safety, better A/C and driving dynamics to name just few.

In fact, other than overweighting a smaller footprint in a tight parking stall there is no summary comparison to be made between the two that doesn't massively favor the 5 - which is as it should be given the purchase prices involved.

The another way to see the real topic - BMWs diesel powertrain superiority versus Toyotas HSD - BESIDES SALES RESULTS anywhere the two compete with each other is to consider if a scaled down BMW powertrain was installed in the Prius.

Given the realities of Prius driving dynamics or really non dynamics a 1.4-1.6L BMW diesel/6MT installed in a Prius would not only substantially improve fuel economy it would also help improve the driving experience as well.

And for those that want to continue the charade that in an overall sense somehow a Prius is even remotely comparable to a 520d - except to illustrate just one of the 50+ superior passenger car diesel choices available in Europe ...... then lets do the same thing - going the other way.
Go 'compare' - with the same twisted logic the current Edsel in the making Lexus LS 600 h - in either length to the 520d.
Although also silly (primarily in regards to the L's backseat only) its still more sensible than a Prius versus 520d comparison.

Of course, you could compare the Prius to the LS 600 h on interior volume and trunk space..... and SOB - no doubt about it using. Prius 'logic':lmao: Toyota biggest mistake regarding hybrids appears to be located largely in the Lexus line up.

The GS series in Europe and elsewhere is the most logical match up to the 5 series -and whether gas versus gas or hybrid versus diesel it is again no contest anyway you want to measure it - including fuel economy on diesels versus Toyota HSD.

This 'unfair' to BMW and diesel comparison - which they won anyway - helps explain part of Toyota's powertrain predicament 'moving forward'.

BTW, somebody made the point about a Prius not doing so well on the Highway - boy you aren't kidding.
Back in '05 I took a somewhat different roadtrip in an '04 Prius. It involved a close to full load (correctly distributed) under high and hot conditions with strong wind 'at speed' - uphill - when the Prius could keep up.

The Prius indicated 22 plus mpg. Careful PIA hand measurement indicated 18 - 18.40 so that made sense all around. One of the other cars was in the convoy was a '03 Buick Lesabre equipped with the 3.8L v6 and the expected 4speed AT. This was the best comparison piece in our little convoy because when the Prius 'overheated' (HSD battery) and became essentially unusable the Buick stayed behind and idled a good deal of the time with the A/C on - while we waited..... partially on a hunch.... and with prayer for the Prius to cool down. The Buick, also fully loaded (incorrectly) and later overloaded - measured out at 22 plus mpg.

This was much more impressive then the Prius - which had all of its load sans driver and tote bag shifted primarily to the Buick for the last 1/4 of the trip. It was then run very uncomfortably without radio/electrical load and intermittent A/C.

The older M5 which was along for the ride and driven much harder still - with more idle time managed something over approx. 15/16 mpg which when all is said and done outpointed the Prius as well.

 

[Toto]

Slightly OT: Happy Birthday Rudolf Diesel (March 18, 1858 - September 30, 1913)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Diesel

 

[chickenkicker]

I'm not defending the Prius, I hate that little thing more than just about any other car on the road, but for me if a hybrid and a Diesel were this close in mileage I'd take the hybrid for the fact that Diesel is 80cents more per gallon than regular unleaded.

 

[tgferg67]

Since when are Trip Computer readouts a valid method for fuel mileage comparisons.

 

[baloo]

Since when are Trip Computer readouts a valid method for fuel mileage comparisons.

That's not what they used for the final figures.

 

[tgferg67]

That's not what they used for the final figures.

Ok I see they checked it

 

[Murrow]

BMW Diesel Beats Prius in Economy Run

BMW Diesel Beats Prius in Economy Run

Is this a case of man bites dog? A mid-size BMW sedan equipped with a diesel engine returned better fuel economy on a 545-mile, London-to-Geneva, run than a gasoline-powered Toyota Prius. A BMW 520d with a 2.0-liter diesel engine and regenerative braking (but no heavy duty hybrid features) got 41.9 mpg while the full-hybrid Prius, 500 pounds lighter, got 40.1 mpg.

Two writers for the Sunday Times (London) wondered if official mpg ratings were accurate after hearing from their readers who said the Prius ratings were high by 15 (U.K.) mpg. "If our readers are right and the official figure is wrong it has important implications, not least of which is that people driving frugal diesels are getting a raw deal," the paper said, since hybrids get some tax and roadway access benefits in Europe as they do in the U.S. To find out, they drove BMW's midsize 5 Series sedan and the Prius London-to-Geneva, adding 100 miles to the route "to give the Prius the advantage of running in urban conditions where its petrol-electric drivetrain comes into its own."

Whilst the BMW "doesn't have the external look of a green car and you don't get the same self-righteous glow when you are driving it," it does have a series of energy-saving features BMW calls EfficientDynamics: battery recharge when braking, good aerodynamics, low rolling resistance, a continuous fuel consumption gauge on the dashboard, and a six-speed manual transmission that is rated as improving fuel economy by about 10%. Testers found the 520d "not startlingly quick ... [but] it cruised happily at the French autoroute limit (dry conditions) of 78mph towards the champagne region." When the trip was done, the BMW still had a third of its tank in reserve.


more here: http://www.technoride.com/2008/03/bmw_diesel_beats_prius_in_econ.php