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Translation: "the urgency of expanding uncontrolled centralized government power"
Exactly, you can put it in whatever order you prefer; Control = Power = Money

More like translation"give us your money!"
Taxing America blind, in the name of Global Warming, errr..... I-mean, "Climate Change".

So let's totally screw the world up because China is doing it.
A) US has been very responsible regarding "environment".
B) The (positive) impact we could make if we went to zero would be negligible.

And if us being "greener" at the same time we buy more and more from China, which isn't curbing, is foolhardy.

"Does it matter if all the kids are pissing in the pool? And will you even notice if your kid stops?"

- Vehicles are not a major driver in pollution in the US.
 

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So let's totally screw the world up because China is doing it.
No the point is to not screw ourselves up to a point of catastrophe and allow China to become the big kid on the block.We are heading this way incase you have not cared to notice, i can say with confidence that China would take your environmental concerns and disappear you like they done with so many in Hong Kong!
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
We cannot ask China or India to do their part if we, in North America, aren't doing something to mitigate the climate change crisis. In the long run, less fuel consumed is less dependency on Saoudi's oil and the Middle-East in general.
I'm trying to stay out of the politics of this thread...But just thought I would chime in by saying under Trump we were energy independent for the first time in over 70 years. Well on our way to being energy dominant. We didn't have to rely on any foreign regime for oil.
 

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It is not a crisis. Globaloney warming is another fake emergency.

As bongos points out, we were energy independent. That won't last long. Surrendering our role to China is not good for pollution levels or many other factors. They build coal plants, we shut them down. Our west coast gets coal emissions from China, coming across the Pacific. Carbon is not harmful. Carbon is the building block of all life on earth. More CO2 means larger crop yields. A warmer climate means greater benefits for all. Cold kills. Is there more vegetation at the equator or the Arctic Circle?

The US claims China's total energy-related emissions are twice those of the US and nearly one-third of all emissions globally. China's annual emissions today are about double those of the US, according to UN data. And last year, China accounted for about one-third of global CO2 emissions while the US produced 13%.Nov 13, 2020

And let's not forget that Trump merely rescinded a tailpipe rule that Obama fast-tracked.
 

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We cannot ask China or India to do their part if we, in North America, aren't doing something to mitigate the climate change crisis.
As Neanderthal pointed out in post #13, there is no "climate change crisis". As such, the proper response for "mitigating" it - whether in China, India, or North America - is to inform everyone that it's one of the greatest hoaxes in human history.

In the U.S. specifically, an additional and appropriate mitigation measure would be to abolish the federal EPA.
 

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We cannot ask China or India to do their part if we, in North America, aren't doing something to mitigate the climate change crisis. In the long run, less fuel consumed is less dependency on Saudi's oil and the Middle-East in general.
Don't take this the wrong way, but were do you get your news and information from; aka who is telling you what to think?

How many coal plants did the US build last year?
- How many coal plants did the US close last year?

How many coal plants did China build last year?
- How many coal plants did China close last year?
 

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My main gripe about the ever increasing standards for automobiles is that the opportunity to ever own a new car is out of reach for so many.
Government needs to ask itself some questions.
Is it better to have more newer, cleaner emission vehicles on the road, removing 10 to 30 year old automobiles that are dirtier or mandate a little bit more mpg?
Is it better to mandate electronic band aids on new vehicles (cameras, sensors, etc) or remove these costly trinkets and make it possible for more people to buy new vehicles with better crash standards than 10 to 30 year old vehicles?

There should a logical compromise that allows lower income people to still buy cleaner, more crash worthy vehicles without all the techno-bable crap.
 

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I'm trying to stay out of the politics of this thread...But just thought I would chime in by saying under Trump we were energy independent for the first time in over 70 years. Well on our way to being energy dominant. We didn't have to rely on any foreign regime for oil.
Though the less we need is the more we can sell to another country.
 

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My main gripe about the ever increasing standards for automobiles is that the opportunity to ever own a new car is out of reach for so many.
Government needs to ask itself some questions.
Is it better to have more newer, cleaner emission vehicles on the road, removing 10 to 30 year old automobiles that are dirtier or mandate a little bit more mpg?
Is it better to mandate electronic band aids on new vehicles (cameras, sensors, etc) or remove these costly trinkets and make it possible for more people to buy new vehicles with better crash standards than 10 to 30 year old vehicles?

There should a logical compromise that allows lower income people to still buy cleaner, more crash worthy vehicles without all the techno-bable crap.
It is possible that the switch to BEV might cause used ICE vehicles to stick around a lot longer than they have in the past with people more willing to spend the money to repair them to keep them on the road.
 
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