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wHAT??

It's actually a pretty well written, well informed article about the possible difficulties or recycling the batteries. Yes, there are companies that already recycle them but at the fraction of what will need to be recycled in the near future.
Of course because you can’t have the volume of business right now that will be needed in 10-15 years.

Anytime there’s money to be made there will be someone there figuring out how to get it.
 

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By the look of it recycling Lithium Batteries is an expensive process.


All the safety gear and OHS process would make new start ups wary of getting into the business in the short term

I do see this as something the manufacturers may do as a goodwill excercise initially to ease customer fear
There is a guy who use to work for Tesla who started a recycling company.
 

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I like to listen to John McElroy (Automotive Insight) give his daily two-minute auto news each day. Today, he talked about the glass used in cars. He said that other than a very small amount being recycled into asphalt, the bulk of the windshields and other glass used in autos goes into landfill. Apparently it's laminated with plastic and wire and cannot economically be separated.

I wish I could be as optimistic as Scottieeeee is, but as far as having a bunch of companies just appear out of nowhere to recycle EV batteries, there has to be a profit in it first. And there's the rub.
I imagine in europe and likely the rest of the world companies will be MANDATED to do something with used batteries and I can see them pooling money to run ONE recycling facility
but I would like to see reuse first before recycle a lot of the individual cells could be repurposed into standby power for network switches OR bold storage for power grids that are increasingly going "green"
and also hopefully most car makers have some level of rebuild ability designed into the packs as often some cells die before others and should be swapped out - I believe GM ultium is supposed to support module swapping and even different "performance" levels in each module so replace a degraded module leaving the rest of the pack in place and the systems will adapt to the NEW module
 

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By the look of it recycling Lithium Batteries is an expensive process.


All the safety gear and OHS process would make new start ups wary of getting into the business in the short term

I do see this as something the manufacturers may do as a goodwill excercise initially to ease customer fear
And, when we hear "recycling" will it really be done?

As I noted above with mgescuro, the CT politicians make ME recycle. So I can proudly say "I recycle"! However it all ends up in the landfill with my regular garbage.

And, another scam I noticed, because I garden, is I hear a lot of "will plant two for every one cut down", often in regards to buying a cut Christmas tree. They certainly do plant two seedlings, as is common practice, but they leave out the second half of that common practice - after a certain amount of time you pull the weaker of the two out - you kill it. I've seen this used elsewhere too.

A lot of marketing scams - will they do something similar? GM/industry will sell used batteries to a "recycling" company, actually an industry consortium created to lose money, and the "recycling" company just throws out the batteries - GM/industry can then say they did their part and recycled! Wasn't their fault the batteries ended up in the landfill.
 

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And, when we hear "recycling" will it really be done?

As I noted above with mgescuro, the CT politicians make ME recycle. So I can proudly say "I recycle"! However it all ends up in the landfill with my regular garbage.

And, another scam I noticed, because I garden, is I hear a lot of "will plant two for every one cut down", often in regards to buying a cut Christmas tree. They certainly do plant two seedlings, as is common practice, but they leave out the second half of that common practice - after a certain amount of time you pull the weaker of the two out - you kill it. I've seen this used elsewhere too.

A lot of marketing scams - will they do something similar? GM/industry will sell used batteries to a "recycling" company, actually an industry consortium created to lose money, and the "recycling" company just throws out the batteries - GM/industry can then say they did their part and recycled! Wasn't there fault the batteries ended up in the landfill.
This is exactly why I was saying that it needs to be mandated by the government to close the loopholes. Everybody recycles 100% of the battery. Make new batteries require 10%-70% recycled materials as a CAFE type requirement over time as more EVs get scrapped.
 

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Of course because you can’t have the volume of business right now that will be needed in 10-15 years.

Anytime there’s money to be made there will be someone there figuring out how to get it.
It's not really the volume, it's the procedures and actual costs.
 

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Why not drop the dead batteries into volcanoes? Why is it ok for only living young female virgins to be thrown into them?
Dump them with the DDT. Out of sight, out of mind!

I imagine in europe and likely the rest of the world companies will be MANDATED to do something with used batteries and I can see them pooling money to run ONE recycling facility
but I would like to see reuse first before recycle a lot of the individual cells could be repurposed into standby power for network switches OR bold storage for power grids that are increasingly going "green"
and also hopefully most car makers have some level of rebuild ability designed into the packs as often some cells die before others and should be swapped out - I believe GM ultium is supposed to support module swapping and even different "performance" levels in each module so replace a degraded module leaving the rest of the pack in place and the systems will adapt to the NEW module
Mandated, vs market, is what has gotten us into this mess. Anyone who thinks a bunch of never-worked-in-business bureaucrats can and will figure this out, to a good conclusion, I have a couple of nice bridges I can let you have pretty cheap.

This is exactly why I was saying that it needs to be mandated by the government to close the loopholes. Everybody recycles 100% of the battery. Make new batteries require 10%-70% recycled materials as a CAFE type requirement over time as more EVs get scrapped.
I repeat my above post. Central planners are idiots.
 

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Dump them with the DDT. Out of sight, out of mind!


Mandated, vs market, is what has gotten us into this mess. Anyone who thinks a bunch of never-worked-in-business bureaucrats can and will figure this out, to a good conclusion, I have a couple of nice bridges I can let you have pretty cheap.


I repeat my above post. Central planners are idiots.
I understand where you're coming from, but if the objective with EVs is to save the planet, history has clearly shown that most people and 99.9% of companies have ZERO interest in supporting/funding that goal without government direction which put everybody on the same playing field. If we abandon carbon fuels and then jump over to hazardous chemicals that will just pollute our landfills and leak into our waterways and kill our wildlife, it kind of defeats the purpose in my opinion. This is where I like to point out that our country has had no leadership in this area and doesn't react until it becomes a problem and then the bandaids come out. We need a cohesive energy plan to address these issues from the start, not after the fact.
 

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Hopefully, whatever they do, works better than the "blue bin" recycling process we have in CT. We have two garbage bins, one for regular garbage and a blue one for paper, cardboard and plastics. From what I understand, since China said they are no longer taking the worlds garbage, all of this recycled material goes straight to the landfill along with the regular garbage.

I'm all for it, but don't make everyone recycle if nothing is being done with it.
When it started out in the 90s they used to have you segregate the wastes, you had a bin for paper, and then metal/glass/plastic which itself was usually sorted either by you or further downstream. That material then went to different recycling plants. Sometime in the 2000s they found it was cheaper just to ship it all to China and we stopped sorting our recyclables and you got the one bin for mixed recycling and it was convenient, so we threw everything in there even stuff that wasn't recyclable like plastic wrapping and shopping bags. Now it's going to be hard to put the horse back in the barn and get people to resume putting out 3 or 4 different recycling waste streams.
 
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I understand where you're coming from, but if the objective with EVs is to save the planet, history has clearly shown that most people and 99.9% of companies have ZERO interest in supporting/funding that goal without government direction which put everybody on the same playing field. If we abandon carbon fuels and then jump over to hazardous chemicals that will just pollute our landfills and leak into our waterways and kill our wildlife, it kind of defeats the purpose in my opinion. This is where I like to point out that our country has had no leadership in this area and doesn't react until it becomes a problem and then the bandaids come out. We need a cohesive energy plan to address these issues from the start, not after the fact.
Direction is one thing, Central Planning a yooj part of the economy is another thing and IMO the market is a superior arbiter to career bureaucrats and politicians, most of whom have never worked a real job or run a business and don't really understand the fallout of what their lofty plans can or will be.

The USA and Euro were reducing emissions. BTW I do not consider carbon harmful, it is what we're made of. China and India and Indonesia and other big-population countries are NOT getting a handle on their noxious emissions, and don't care to. China has one goal, rule the world, supplant the USA as the #1 power on the planet.

All the "agreements" they sign onto, all the "accords" they make promises about, all the feelgood stuff the green weenies have orgasms about, Chyyynnnaaa and India and others will not address these issues except in make-believe world.

They build coal plants, they're relatively poor, they will use whatever power source is cheap and plentiful. COAL. Even the great warrior John Fitzgerald Kerry has said no matter what we in the USA do, it will make not a particle of difference.

And to name carbon as the enemy is pure malarkey. To name warming as the enemy is foolish, and if you look back over the hysteria since around 1970, there have been dozens and dozens of WE ARE DOOMED! scenarios that are just around the corner. Most of these people are as full of crap as a Christmas turkey, they have no idea what they're jabbering about, this is nothing different from the snake oil salesman at the traveling circus 100 to 150 years ago. BTW it was GLOBAL COOLING, NEW ICE AGE COMING!!!!!!!! for a while.

As they say in the news business, if it bleeds it leads. Anything to sell a paper. Facts are irrelevant. It's about power and control and getting fat rich and happy.
 
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Same as everything else, they'll just toss them until it becomes a problem then try to find a solution when its too late. As per usual the planet will just become a bigger dumping ground. People and gov'ts can plan all they want, not going to help, people are too stupid, for the most part, to change.
 

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I don't know the details of this recycling program, but in this Fact Sheet, GM states,

"We have enabled the reuse or recycling of 100 percent of returned batteries, and we will keep doing so".

https://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/images/US/Release_Images/2020/sep/0916-UltumDrive/GM-EV-Fact Sheet-1-Architecture-and-Ultium-Battery-System.pdf
Interesting word choice, when I think about it, I'm not exactly clear on what that means. They've "enabled" the reuse or recycling - so that makes it sound like they can be reused or recycled. Methinks someone spent a lot of time in getting the wording just right.

"And we will keep doing so"....

63590
 

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This is another area where battery swap stations shows it's a better concept vs 100% ownership/recharge on the go. I'm not letting this concept go, Tesla shouldn't have abandoned it IMO. All batteries swapped into a station can be evaluated/tested on health, healthy batteries are kept in rotation, unhealthy are sent off for recycling. Then the onus for maintenance/warranty can fall on the battery mfr and not the automaker, this can very much possibly lead to lower prices all around on the vehicle and battery pack due to the "regulation by process" of rare earth battery material recycling.
 

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This is another area where battery swap stations shows it's a better concept vs 100% ownership/recharge on the go. I'm not letting this concept go, Tesla shouldn't have abandoned it IMO. All batteries swapped into a station can be evaluated/tested on health, healthy batteries are kept in rotation, unhealthy are sent off for recycling. Then the onus for maintenance/warranty can fall on the battery mfr and not the automaker, this can very much possibly lead to lower prices all around on the vehicle and battery pack due to the "regulation by process" of rare earth battery material recycling.
True. At this point I think all options should be on the table and what ever works best will end up winning out.
 
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